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Apparently, Gibson is now using Richlite™ for their fingerboards on guitars that use ebony.
And a gibson 339 that I own has a laminated fingerboard. Apparently, after they were fined for illegally importing exotic woods they began experimenting with alternatives including the laminated fingerboards and baked and dyed maple to substitute for ebony.
In other news, fender probably has 50 different stratocasters these days...
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02-12-2014 04:08 PM
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It's going to happen, might as well embrace it. The worlds ebony sources are rapidly depleting.
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A student of mine has a Martin with a rich lite fingerboard...looks a lot like ebony, unless you get really close and see there's no grain...feels a whole lot like ebony.
Guitar sounds pretty good overall (all solid saepele drednaught)...but martins pretty upfront about all of this stuff...certain models have it, certain ones dont, all nd you're not going to have to question, say, your new D-28...
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i had a carbon graphite acoustic composite acoustics Xsi which was the best sounding guitar I've ever had.
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Glad to see it. So often the cache of a wood has more value than the quality of the material. I've seen low quality woods, ebony among, that have been used to the detriment of an instrument merely because people will buy it. You see this in Brazilian rosewood, so in demand for its legendary reputation, that wood cut from rotting long discarded roadside stumps, stabilized with epoxies and plastics so they won't literally crumble, is used to command top dollar from the Brazilian Rosewood name.
Guitars are often a fantasy commodity. The magic of reputation supercedes the utility. Sure great wood is part of a great instrument, but how much of that is salesmanship too? It used to be that Rosewood was found in abundance. You'd take 2 gorgeous pieces and make a back. Then the supply of big pieces dried up (it doesn't just grow on trees!) and it looked like the end of the world. Martin began making 3 piece backs and sold them with a genius spin that made them sexy. People began to want Martins with spectacular 3 piece backs.
If Gibson endorses an alternative that puts stable plentiful instruments into the hands of talented musicians, and other makers can follow suit and offer instruments just as good for less money sans the exotic tax, then I love it.
I'll still hold onto my Johnny Smith though, heh heh.
David
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BDLH
It had to do with the thickness of the fingerboards. Apparently, Gibson can't import "raw" wood from India, it has to be partially machined (an Indian law, not a US law). The boards were a little too thick to count as machined so the US gov't enforced an Indian law and confiscated the wood.
As to Richlite vs Micarta vs Rosewood vs [ad nauseum], I have always believed the tonal differences are slight and the feel is more important. If I like the feel, I'll play it.
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1. Yes, that sounds familiar. At least the wood itself was legally harvested.
Originally Posted by DRS
2. We all know how wood ages, but I wonder what the synthetic stuff will be like after 10 years of sweat and neck stranglin'.
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I have a very nice Martin 000 with a Richlite FB and bridge and solid rosewood back and sides. I bought it because it was a very dark sounding instrument compared to other Martins in that category. It has a wonderful high end that isn't bright or too ringy. Chords sound distinct. I have always wondered if it was the FB or bridge or both. I would have guessed the Richlite would make a guitar brighter, but who knows? I personally appreciate that the market is open to alternatives when it comes to endangered wood species. How long before we see Les Pauls made of myrtle or oak?
Bill
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Well, it is apparently the same stuff as Formica - sheets of kraft paper soaked in resin without the plastic colour top coat. That's the back side. I would assume that it is impervious to sweat of alcohol. I've seen muriatic acid stain counter tops but not anything else. The brown back side of Formica is the same 50 years after it's installed. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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I have a Fatovich semi hollow songle cutaway that has an "ebonite" finger board.
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Note the rosewood finger board on this Wesmo.
https://davesguitar.com/products/gibson-custom-shop/wes-montgomery-l-5-ces-2/
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FWIW there is a great banjo builder that says that banjos with rosewood fingerboards sound better, and closer to the pre-war sound, than the ebony ones. People like the dark look of the ebony though.
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Quite a few guitar manufacturers are still making quite a few guitars using great ebony for their finger boards, bridge assemblies and pick guards. Some are even making some wonderful tail pieces . . and/or tail piece inserts from ebony. It's still out there and it's readily available.
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I wonder how Richlite is for a refret?
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True, Patrick.
Campellone - like other boutique builders - use ebony.
I just bought a LPC (VOS 57 Reissue) and its fingerboard is ebony. The less pricey models have Richlite boards, including the much-coveted (but quite pricey) Peter Frampton signature model.
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IIRC Gibson got hit by the Lacey Act which basically prohibits importing something illegally harvested/taken/whatever in violation of the laws of its country of origin. I'm not crazy about richlite but I'm less crazy about wiping ebony off the face of the earth. I have 4 guitars with excellent ebony boards and can't see myself selling any of them but i think pau ferro is still my favorite.
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The State Of Ebony - Bob Taylor
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Macassar ebony is not nearly as highly sought after for fine arch top guitars as is black (Gabon. or Gaboon) ebony . . the most highly prized. Macassar is also not on the endangered species list (yet). I would be perfectly content to have a new arch top built with Macassar ebony . . and have it dyed to a black ebony appearance. Gibson could just as easily do this, as easily as they could bake maple or use what ever other form of Play Dough they choose.
I've always defended Gibson when they were unfairly bashed. But, don't f*** with my beloved L5 and Super 400 iconic guitars. That's just plain blasphemous!!!Last edited by Patrick2; 02-13-2014 at 08:35 AM.
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Despite the nearly universal demand and love for Gabon ebony, it is not the best material for a fingerboard. It's dimensional instability is responsible for many of the issues associated with warped necks, cupped fingerboards, frets popping, split tops along the line where the fingerboard joins the top on acoustic instruments... It can also be a major PITA to re-fret as I can attest to from a recent experience re-fretting a clients guitar. Materials like Indian rosewood, Pau Ferro (one of my favorites as well), Rock maple, Purple Heart (If you're color blind
), Padauk and some of the less exotic woods are actually much better stability wise than even the best quarter sawn Ebony. And they are much easier on your tech guys mental stability when re-fret time comes.
I have some experience with Richlite fingerboards and find it no harder on tool blades (as some folks on other forums have questioned) than Ebony. Ebony can contain a good deal of crystalline material that will dull a sharp tool in a big hurry. Re-frets that I've done on instruments with Richlite fingerboards were very successful and easy. No chipping at all, as is common on Ebony fingerboards, and the new frets slipped in easily and seated/held perfectly even without glue, although I'd advise gluing the frets in as insurance just as one would do with wood.
I'm not a fan of synthetic materials in my guitars either but if we are to insist on black fingerboards then we are either going to have to accept ebonized/dyed black "non-ebony" hardwood, Macassar ebony or synthetics like Richlite as the way of the future.Last edited by Scot Tremblay; 02-12-2014 at 11:00 PM.
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" But, don't f*** with my beloved L5 and Super 400 iconic guitars. That's just plain blasphemous!!!"
dig it, and they're not going to be making fine violins w/richlite are they?
there will always be some ebony that filters through to the individual builder, just maybe not from a major manufacturer.
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Wow, 13 minutes and 22 seconds of 'tube for 45 seconds of actual info.
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The guy's all full of himself. I'll betcha he's got a good stash of ebony . . . the good stuff!! Originally Posted by PTChristopher2
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Ebony is great! Until it starts to crack...
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that may be true of ebony today but it wasn't always true.
Also, i don't want my woods chosen for me by techs based on technical criteria. I want them chosen over what tone is best. I expect the luthier on a $5k guitar to have chose the wood that is stable, not the one that came quickest down the assembly line.
And finally, I like the sound and feel of ebony. Pau Ferro and rosewood sound very different. And frankly, it's only a matter of time before we're in the same boat with those woods. (figuratively speaking, of course)
Originally Posted by Scot Tremblay
Despite the nearly universal demand and love for Gabon ebony, it is not the best material for a fingerboard. It's dimensional instability is responsible for many of the issues associated with warped necks, cupped fingerboards, frets popping, split tops along the line where the fingerboard joins the top on acoustic instruments... It can also be a major PITA to re-fret as I can attest to from a recent experience re-fretting a clients guitar. Materials like Indian rosewood, Pau Ferro (one of my favorites as well), Rock maple, Purple Heart (If you're color blind), Padauk and some of the less exotic woods are actually much better stability wise than even the best quarter sawn Ebony. And they are much easier on your tech guys mental stability when re-fret time comes.
I have some experience with Richlite fingerboards and find it no harder on tool blades (as some folks on other forums have questioned) than Ebony. Ebony can contain a good deal of crystalline material that will dull a sharp tool in a big hurry. Re-frets that I've done on instruments with Richlite fingerboards were very successful and easy. No chipping at all, as is common on Ebony fingerboards, and the new frets slipped in easily and seated/held perfectly even without glue, although I'd advise gluing the frets in as insurance just as one would do with wood.
I'm not a fan of synthetic materials in my guitars either but if we are to insist on black fingerboards then we are either going to have to accept ebonized/dyed black "non-ebony" hardwood, Macassar ebony or synthetics like Richlite as the way of the future.
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Contrary to some I don't think the FB has much to do with sound, more likely it's perception of quality. Gibson started using ebony in their higher end guitars and it became the de-facto perceived standard for upper end guitars. If they had used rosewood on them and baked maple on everything else rosewood would like have been the standard. Originally Posted by jzucker
I have a Midtown Custom and a LP Supreme with richlite, if exterior signage and countertops can stand up to those environments I'm sure I'll have no issues with it.
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