Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?

**2bornot2bop** · 02-07-2014, 06:05 PM

Mahogany back, or Maple?

Is late 90's to 2005 okay?

Not interested in vintage guitars...they're too pricey, as I'm limiting my budget to as close to $3k as possible.

**jzucker** · 02-07-2014, 06:16 PM

the mahogany ones are warmer. The maple ones sound a bit more like a bigger gibson like an L5.

**Larry M** · 02-07-2014, 08:01 PM

Hi, Greg.

I had a 2001 maple. It was a great guitar. I used it as a partial trade, but it was tough to see it go.

One of the reasons I felt I could let it go was that it was similar in sound to my 2001 Wes (like Jack said). Not as big sounding, but close.

**2bornot2bop** · 02-07-2014, 08:05 PM

Great info guys, thanks. So if I want a mini L5 buy the maple back...very interesting.

**AlsoRan** · 02-07-2014, 08:43 PM

So an L4 is not just an ES-175 with more elaborate trappings and appointments.

Ok.

Your quests are educating us all. Thanks.

**bmw2002** · 02-07-2014, 10:43 PM

I think that's the ES-775 (Ebony fretboard, gold hardware, etc.)

**jim dandy** · 02-07-2014, 11:09 PM

I should try a maple laminate model again. I don't remember it sounding like an L5, but it's been a long time since I tried one.

**jads57** · 02-07-2014, 11:53 PM

I thought all L-4CES were mahogany body w/ solid spruce tops? I have an ES-775 which is all maple(laminate ) construction, and neck w/ ebony fingerboard. Also the neck p/up is moved closer to the fingerboard. Great guitar, but a bit on the heavy side 8&1/2lbs or so.

**wintermoon** · 02-08-2014, 01:33 PM

Now that you have two L-5's I think you may be going backwards w/an L-4 unless you want a smaller body short scale guitar. They're a good guitar, but you have 2 'better' ones, what's the point?

I have a feeling it might not stick....

**wintermoon** · 02-08-2014, 03:11 PM

I can tell just from the video that it's a smaller sounding guitar than an L-5.
An L-4 is basically an ES-175 w/ a carved top. but hey, if small's what you dig, gopher it.

**GuyBoden** · 02-08-2014, 04:16 PM

I have a 1949 Gibson L4C, the first year of production, great mellow, warm, easy to play guitar.

Jason Lollar built me a McCarty pickup for the guitar, the first McCarty pickup he built/sold.

If you scroll to bottom of Jason Lollar's web page here, you'll see my L4C with the McCarty installed.

https://www.lollarguitars.com/blog/c...ccarty-pickup/

Here's my L4C.

Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-fulllengthl4-jpg

Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-fulllengthl4-jpg

**Eddie Lang** · 02-08-2014, 05:56 PM

I have a 1934-35 L-4 with the round sound hole. Great guitar. I also have a 1952-53 L-4C that I love enormously, and a 1949 L-7. I know an L-7 is not an L-5, but they share body size and scale length. I wouldn't say that any of my L-4 are below the L-7 tonewise. Just different.

If the price of a vintage L-4 is your only caveat, you can find some within your $3k mark. Heck, some on ebay don't even get a bid at $2,500!

**powerwagonjohn** · 02-08-2014, 07:31 PM

As I have said before I have a 2009 L-4CES and I really like it. I had tried an earlier one with the laminated maple back and sides and I liked that one too but I got a good deal on a new one. Then there are the ones with the laminated mahogany back and sides which I would like to try too. I see Gibson is making a new L-4CES with a carved maple back and sides but it costs as much or more than an L-5CES. Gibson also made some thin body L-4CES guitars which I have only seen and played one of those. I am sure you will find one for a good deal and i don't think any would be a bad guitar. Although some get pretty heavy they do have a lot of hardware on them. I only wish they put better turners on them, it's not like any of them are historically accurate. Good luck with your search and I look forward to a full report.
Thanks John

**Eddie Lang** · 02-08-2014, 08:09 PM

Jads57 and PowerWagonJohn both mentioned weight, so I'll just mention the weight of my two L-4s. The round hole is 4.6 lbs. and the L-4C is 4.8lbs.

Jads, was there a typo? I've never played one so I don't know, but 8-1/2 lbs for an L-4CES? Really? Wow! Are they all around that weight?

**jads57** · 02-08-2014, 10:47 PM

Sorry that's for my all maple laminate ply 1992 ES-775

**powerwagonjohn** · 02-09-2014, 12:38 AM

My 2008 L-4CES weighs a little under 7# while my 1952 L-4 W/deArmond 1000 and hardware weighs just under 5 1/2# like I said the L-4CES has a lot of hardware!
Thanks John

**2bornot2bop** · 03-04-2014, 01:58 AM

Is a 1990 Gibson L4 with a mahogany back and sides a good year to buy? I'm reading web rumors about 80's models that "might" have laminated backs and sides. The guitar looks like it's solid wood throughout.

Didn't Gibson sell in '88 or so, and the Norlin era ended about then, if not a few years earlier? At any rate, 2b is trying not to put the cart before the archtop horse. Thanks in advance!

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2014, 06:45 AM

No-one knows for sure. There is a post in the Gibson Forum by someone who claimed to have worked in the Gibson Custom Shop and seen the L-4CES made in that era. He said they were of solid carved Hog back and rim.

The ES-175s of that period were made of laminated Hog. And laminated curly maple replaced Hog on both the L-4CES and ES-175, beginning in 1993 and ending with model year 2002 for the L-4CES. So, make of that what you will.

My gut feel is laminated Hog for the L-4CES of that era (1986 to 1992) to share production costs with the ES-175. For one, those I have seen have no centre seam in the back and a single billet of solid Hog for a 16" archtop would be expensive, I gather. The L-4CES is an entry level carved top archtop, one step above the ES-175.

In 2003, the L-4CES Hog carried a MAP of $1000 over that of the ES-175. Today, that has widened to $2000. No more entry level.

As an aside, when Collings introduced the City Limits Jazz archtop, it boasted a solid single piece carved Hog back as a feature. Collings soon amended that to saying a 2-piece back would also be used for "tonal" and cosmetic reasons as 2-piece backs started appearing. That tells me that good single piece solid Hog billets for backs are hard to find and expensive if found. And that is in a 14.5" archtop with a MAP of $8500.

The crux of it is, what is it worth to you as a guitar, laminated pressed Hog or solid carved.

You should have snagged the 2003 Wine-red L-4CES Hog that the guy who sold you your Bourgeios A-350 had for sale, 2bop

But Wine-red isn't your cuppa tea, to mix a cocktail of metaphors.

**jzucker** · 03-04-2014, 08:05 AM

can't answer your question directly but after going through 5 175s, the one that was the best was an '88 with mahogany back/sides. Gorgeous sound and very well made. My son had an '89 Herb Ellis that sounded great but had some quality problems.

**Franz 1997** · 03-04-2014, 09:18 AM

Recently bought an 89 L4CES..can't tell if solid mahog or not but certainly seems very fat and full- sounding, even with P90s ( see recent Staples thread for why P90s..)

**Franz 1997** · 03-04-2014, 11:16 AM

That's the one!! Except now it's got black P90s. And, I recognise the ( non-original but nice) wooden bridge; I have it in the case. It was feebayed with a best offer thing - so I made one.

Apparently this guitar was, er, converted by a rockabilly player in the north of England with those SD staples, and then sold to my seller, who wasn't a guitar expert and wasn't sure what had been done to it. I bought it intending to restore it with over-sized ebony HB rings, as I have a nice pair of T tops available.

As detailed in the 'staples' thread, I tried the staples briefly but they were def not for me. But the big surprise is how well the guitar suits P90s. After refretting with 149 wire last week, it is a killer player and is as fat on the top as any HB guitar I possess. The SD staples were snapped up by a forum member, so that helped with the cost.

So, although the P90 idea was not the original intention, and it looks right with HB's, I'm inclined to stay with the P90s, at least for now. I have been getting comments about 'warm sound' that are nice to hear.

Incidentally, since i suspect you know something about this guitar Jab, it came with a case that is a real piece of 1950's ( I guess) history.

Edit - this in response to pix of the L4 in question, which seem to have now mysteriously disappeared..

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2014, 11:43 AM

Sorry, Franz. I tried reformatting the photos and it all started mucking up. So, I deleted the post thinking that you may not have read it yet.

OK, I will pull up the pictures and post them again just so that your reply makes sense to the reader.

Sorry for the cockup.

My original post read:

This your bird, Franz?
Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-image-58041-l-jpg

Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-image-58041-l-jpg

Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-image-58043-l-jpg

Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-13305020-170-160x213-jpg

Before conversion:
Gibson L-4 - Mahogany or Maple Back?-5april464-jpg

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2014, 12:20 PM

Before I got my L-4CES, I was searching the web for any information I could find about it. Billy Buck (Steve Billy Buckley), the owner of the 1989 L-4CES Natural, posted about it on quite a few fora. He converted it to Alnico Staples V eventually. Billy had a luthier make the ebony pickup rings that covered the humbucker routs. That got me interested in pursuing a Natural L-4CES of my own and I finally did find one over at Joe V.'s, a 2010 L-4CES Natural custom-ordered with one neck pup that was only a few months' old when it was sold to me in January 2011.

Rockabilly cat is right because many of Billy's posts appeared in Gretsch Pages dot com as Dawg. This is Billy playing his Super 400CES:

I know that Billy put it up for sale in late 2011 or early 2012. I remember asking about it. Guess it was sold to the person you bought it from. He talked about converting your 1989 L-4CES here: http://gretschpages.com/forum/other-...es/6870/page2/ .

More than you want to know about your axe and more photos here: http://gretschpages.com/forum/other-...o/10397/page1/ and http://gretschpages.com/forum/garage-sale/gibson-alnico-l-4ces/33121/page1/

**powerwagonjohn** · 03-04-2014, 01:44 PM

After I bought my 2009 L-4CES I did a bunch of research on these guitars and as someone said they followed the construction of the ES-175's with the laminated mahogany back and sides and then the laminated maple back and sides and eventually the solid mahogany carved back and sides. I really like my L-4CES and after recently buying an acoustic 1952 L-4 I have noticed the CES has a much darker and less punchy sound but then it does have a lot of hardware attached to the top of the guitar. I have played a couple of the laminated maple L-4CES and thought they were brighter sounding than my solid mahogany but then I never had the opportunity to play them side by side. I have played a couple new L-4CES guitars at Daves Guitars and noticed that my 2009 has really started to open up in tone. I have also installed a NOS Gibson ebony bridge on my L-4CES and last night put on a new set of TI flats. I play it through my 1964 Tremolux and a 1964 Fender Reverb unit and get all the fun I can handle...for now.
Thanks John

**Jabberwocky** · 03-04-2014, 03:41 PM

Ah, that one on ebay...He seems to think it's worth $3199. $2400 will be a great buy off ebay. In truth, I can see myself paying $2700 via ebay for it. Take away $250 for ebay's fee and paypal's cut of $50 and he's looking at about $2400 anyway. Edit: It has a Bartolini neck pup and lacquer cracks. Deduct some money for that. Nothing wrong with them but market wisdom again...

Nice Burst. I can see why you're attracted to its siren song. I don't think it makes much difference tonally whether it is laminated or solid Hog. The L-4CES guitars are all nice. All IMHO.