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I am frankly shocked and humbled by the acceptance of my tonal descriptions. This can't be a "real" Internet forum without some major debate!
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12-03-2013 07:46 PM
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I use rounds exclusively, it doesn't matter if it's a tele or a fully hollow archtop. My opinions are this:
1. Flats are not necessary for dark and fat tone. My Henriksen Jazzamp 110 (main amp) can coax a great and somewhat classic jazz sound out of almost any guitar, flats are not needed.
2. Flats have dull attack and bad sustain. I find this more with more expensive sets oddly.
3. Flats are not versatile. I understand why pure jazzers would want that, but I am not a purist.
4. Rounds provide more clarity. I can hear every note of a chord better.
5. Rounds take overdrive. I am not a rock and roller at all, but I love dirty textures in fusion.
My opinions, and nothing more. Regardless, many of my favorite players use flats, I could listen to Jim Hall, Pat Martino, and Russell Malone all day. They all have string preferences, they do what works for them and that's all that matters in the end.
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I think this is really interesting and I guess players use what they prefer.
I was curious a way back about the sounds Joe Pass got on the first Virtouso record, and got a quick answer by going through this forum.
But I just need to ask (if anyone is still curious about these things), it seems as though Joe Pass is using Roundwounds on "An Evening with Joe Pass". Or is the string squeek from the flatwounds?
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Same here. I have flats on my archtop, but rounds on my Strat, Tele, and Semi-hollow. There are times, even playing straight-ahead, that I want to bend or sustain a note. Rounds work much better for that. I also think they sound livelier. They've got some bounce to them.
Originally Posted by itsall4you
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I always associate trad bebop guitar with laminate archtops and flatwound strings. To get that juicy "thunk" I believe flats are preferred. I also think that archtops of that era were thinner and lighter and maybe more responsive to flatwounds. Production archtops today can be any size and shape but generally they seem to have thicker tops with less resonance. Perhaps rounds bring out the tone more on thicker archtops (and solid body guitars).
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For me rounds give the guitar it’s natural state, in terms of feel and sound. Picking feels much more natural with rounds. For me rounds bring my fullest potential. Flats restrict my expression and technique.
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Rounds are the original ones! Originally Posted by ruger9
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This would seem like a classic case of someone ( the OP) generalizing from their own experience. They just now notice something, therefore they assume that everyone else is only now having the same experience.
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What has happened in the 3033 days since the OP started this thread? Do more jazz players use round-wound strings now?
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I once tried flats many years ago and then never again. They do have that dull thunk, but that's not the sound I want. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I never left
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I tried Pyramid flats on the L6-S, but learned that dull strings on a bright guitar do not really work. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Never left wounds, or flats? Originally Posted by wintermoon
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Just my own opinion, rounds give you the opportunity for a "bright" acoustic sound, and if you want darker, use tone controls to dull it down. Flats by nature are dull sounding and cannot get a bright acoustic sound when you want it.
Just my preference.
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I have gone from TI Flats 12's to NYXL 8's. The main thing i notice is I have to consciously play with a gentler touch. (I don't use a pick)
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Like you tried flats once and that's how they sound to me, flat. That was enough, agree w you rounds have the sparkle I like and I don't roll off the treble much either. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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There are definitely many times more options when it comes to roundwound strings. They have their plusses. They seem to be a little less tight than flats, though that could be a plus or minus depending on the player, but it's a difference IMO. They do have more overtones, different response... I find they tend to have a slightly deeper tone in comparison to the same gauge of flatwound. Different strokes and all. I do wish there were more companies offering more types of flatwound options. I have a hard time finding ones I really like.
I also think a good set of pure nickel rounds, once really broken in, can sound almost flatwound-like because of their diminished overtones.
I think tone is so tweakable. You can get "thick" sounds with lighter strings given you play the guitar a certain way with the amp set a certain way etc. Once things are recorded, it gets even more murky. I've heard records with guys I know are using huge strings and the sound is bright and almost thin, and vice versa.
Yet here I am, still searching for the strings I like the feel and sound of. Heh.
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I use both types and go back and forth. One of my many weaknesses is that my sound has to inspire me to play. No matter how good a guitar/strings/amp combination might sound, once I get used to that the lightning-in-a-bottle element is lost. So I mix and match flats and rounds from TI or D’A on my archtops. Ditto with amps. That brings back the surprise element, which keeps me playing, which means I enjoy myself more.
On a side note, here’s something I got from Tommy Emmanuel. I’ve had the very great privilege of spending time with him on several occasions and he insists that guitars somehow “get used” to the strings you use and then start to sound duller. So Tommy has a stash of strings from various brands and uses something different on an almost daily basis. I remember asking him if he really thought it made a difference. He tapped me on the knee and said “Brother, I don’t think. I know.” This was about 10 years ago. At first I sort of dismissed the notion but the more I thought about, and the more I tried it, the more I am inclined to believe it. Whether it’s guitar physics or psychology or both, I don’t know, but I do know that I perceive a difference and I play better because of it.
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I think roundwounds are more suited for the tone that most fans of "modern" jazz guitar want – more sustain and less percussive tones with more processing, overdrive, distortion etc.. Flatwounds on the other hand have more "oumpf" for percussive tones or a more traditional sound like George Benson et al use.
That said Bill Frisell who uses a lot of processing started to use flats a couple of years ago. So there are no "rules".
Personally I like and use both depending on the guitar and musical context.
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I still use flats on all my electric guitars, including the solid bodies, but I like rounds on acoustic archtops including those with floating pickups.
Personally I think play better on a guitar with flatwounds, I find the squeaky sound/feel of rounds challenging, but it's a trade off for a more projecting acoustic tone.
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I’m just amazed that I read 7 or 8 posts before I noticed this thread was from 2013… haha!
I use flats on archtops because of the tone and the fact that they’re so much QUIETER… and use rounds on solid bodies because the overdrive sounds more natural.
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Given my level of playing, take this with a grain of salt, but...here it is...
I like different sounds and feels from different guitars.
Gibson ES175--D'A flat 11s
Gibson ES135--TI flat 12s
Peerless Sunset--D'A flat 11s
Harmony Brilliant Cutaway (with RC1000 reissue)--D'A Pure Nickel round 11s
Godin 5th Ave. (with floater)--D'A Pure Nickel round 11s
Fender Tele--D'A Pure Nickel round 11s
Kay Mahogany (set up for slide)--D'A flat 11s
Taylor 500e 12-string--D'A round 10s
Alvarez classical A/E--Augustine reds
I think that's about it, unless I forgot one or another. I have a Voyage Air travel guitar currently in the shop. It has PB 11s on it.
I don't go for a bright tone, so rarely change my strings. I think the nickel rounds sound very similar to flats in terms of timbre.
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I don't know if the guitars get used to the strings, but they do stretch and become less bright pretty quickly. Originally Posted by Oscar67
Tommy is an incredible guitarist of course, and plays such a dynamic, highly percussive style. I'm not surprised he goes for new strings on a regular basis.
I would wonder how often great jazz guitarists (who don't go for a highly processed tone) change their strings--George Benson, Joe Pass, etc. I'm guessing Joe probably said "They were put on and tuned at the factory, why should I mess with them?" LOL...
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