Why more jazz guitar players are switching back to round wound strings?

[Gabe]

I've been using roundwounds for the past couple of years. I prefer a brighter sounding string as they tend to respond a lot better to the effects I use (particularly when I'm using overdrive as flats can get quite muddy). I've also just switched back down from 13s to 11s (with a wound g), I haven't really noticed a difference in sound but I'm finding it way easier to execute lines on the lighter strings.

[Encinitastubes]

Could it be that electric guitar traditionally emulated other instruments such as piano, Rhodes, vibes? Now, the latter two might be less prevalent, so guitarists are leaning towards the piano round wound sound. Don't shoot me, just speculating.

[artcore]

I 've always liked the half rounds....smooth but with a little more bite....

[ruger9]

someone correct me if I'm wrong....

Weren't roundwounds BEFORE flats? I thought flats were a supposed "improvement" over rounds. Which would mean if you want to talk true tradition, you'd be talking ROUNDS, no?

[GNAPPI]

Flats to me are dull and lifeless. It works on some guitars but most guitars just sounding way too dark for me.

Another problem is the balance between the wound strings and the plain strings. On most flat-sets I've tried the plain strings are way too bright compared to the dark flatwounds.

Having said that, they have their sound which you can only get with flats.

Agreed on all points. The one drawback to roundwounds that can mostly be overcome with diligence is string squeal.

That said, for me anyway it's so much easier to dial in a darker tone with rounds that the possibility of dialing in a brighter tone with flats. Then again there are those who feel that a bridge pup is anathema. for me it's all about tone and its potential.

[Vladan]

I like flats feel on fingers, but have to have plain 3rd. If they were selling such a set over here I'd be all flats. I can not justify buying set of rounds oly for a G string, eventhough I change a string only when it snaps in such an awkward spot so not to be repairable, which is once in 5-10 years.
Also, Once through FX box, my way, strings make no difference to a sound.

[jorgemg1984]

http://www.juststrings.com/ghs-750.html

And also it's very easy to buy a single plain G.

[Vladan]

Not so in shops arround my place. Yes I know about internet, just not something I do very often.
BTW this June I was in Munich and have visited an larg instrument store there. Asked for a flats set with plain G and guy across the counter gave me a strange look saying "We, The Jazzers, we like our Gs wound." "WTF", I thought to my self and bought AC30 Toy Headphone amp instead.

[Jehu]

"We, The Jazzers, we like our Gs wound."

I'm going to start slipping this into casual conversation.

[Klatu]

Many of the younger players who are playing roundwound strings are playing semi hollowbody guitars that aren't typically associated with flatwound strings to begin with. Other players such as Jonathan Kreisberg have such dark tones that I think it would be tough to tell whether he's playing flats or rounds.

On my electric archtops, I tend to go with flats since I'm not looking for any real usable acoustic sound. My archtops with floating pickups are all set up with rounds since they bring out their acoustic potential.

[jorgemg1984]

Kurt and Lage recorded / gigged with archtops and rounds. I don't find Kresiberg's tone very dark... I think his attack is very mute and so the difference between rounds and flats is not so obvious... Kurt has a much darker tone (or used to have).

[edh]

At the risk of suggesting the obvious, maybe it's just because there are a lot more options in round wound strings and good strings don't cost $30 a set.

HA!!, Jim I was about to suggest the price angle but you beat me to it.

[nado64]

I did a forum search on this and although the subject has been broached in other threads, I thought it would be interesting to dedicate a new thread to it.

More and more contemporary jazz players are stringing up their arch-tops with round-wound strings. For example; Julian Lage, Gilad Hekselman, Jonathan Kreisberg, Kurt Rosenwinkel, etc.

These are all players who are making the kind sounds that one might associate with flat-wound strings.

I also notice that valve amps are coming back into popular use in the jazz world; particularly Fender BF amps such as the Twin Reverb or Deluxe Reverb.

Perhaps this, along with the use of overdrive pedals could have to do with the use of rounds. To my ears, round-wound strings have a greater dynamic range which compliments the natural compression of a valve amp.

In another thread, it was suggested that a lot of the modern guys are coming from rock and pop, in which round wound strings are the norm, so they are using what feels and sounds familiar to them.

If you look at the reverb pedals used, they color the sound in a dark way. And, from my modest experience, the flatwound strings have a muddy sound through a lot of dark reverb and delay. And the roundwound strings are more versatile with any effect pedals.

I guess than the guitarists, "straight in amp", use flat or roundwound strings according to their taste.

[jorgemg1984]

If you look at the reverb pedals used, they color the sound in a dark way. And, from my modest experience, the flatwound strings have a muddy sound through a lot of dark reverb and delay. And the roundwound strings are more versatile with any effect pedals.

I guess than the guitarists, "straight in amp", use flat or roundwound strings according to their taste.

Not all the reverbs darken the sound... some reverb pedals have a tone control and you can choose. And even if not Hall and Plate darken the sound but spring and "church" type reverbs usually brighten the sound.

[Chimera1to1]

Silliness.

Two vids, same tele, .12 gauge flats.

Nobody's handcuffed to a dark sound because they dig flats. People use the tone they want, regardless of strings.

I'm always late for the party but that's a great example Jeff. The second video gives a classic jazz tone but I don't think its much to do with the strings type. It has a lot to do with damping the strings with both hands creating the jazz feel

[nado64]

Not all the reverbs darken the sound... some reverb pedals have a tone control and you can choose. And even if not Hall and Plate darken the sound but spring and "church" type reverbs usually brighten the sound.

Yes, you're right, I don't say 'all the reverbs darken the sound', I was just talking about the guys who uses a reverb, and cut the high frequencies with this effect, like Monder, Rosenwinkel, Kreisberg,.... It's difficult to have a good sound with flatwounds and with this effect.

If you use a spring reverb, you can easily use the flatwound strings.
But it's more a traditional or a classical tone than a contemporary tone, for me.

But sadly (or fortunately), there are no rules, just some constant things, I know a man with a lovely modern tone who uses flatwounds.

[D.G.]

DA Chromes have a more "forward" midrange which I find useful on standard humbucker guitars. Rounds are slightly more "scooped" and also tend to have slightly more high end. On my Eastman 403 I used chromes until I swapped the stock pickup out with a Lollar low wind Imperial. As soon as the Lollar went in I switched back out to rounds, the flats being to "hard" sounding for my purposes. I also like to hear my fingerprints on the low strings

I find TI's last a long time because they come out of the package pre-deceased

[edh]

I know that describing a sound/tone is difficult when putting it into words. I have seen the use of the word "scooped" to describe a tone/sound.

Would someone care to elaborate what "scooped" is trying to describe? I have no idea what is meant by that word.

Thanks all.

[D.G.]

I know that describing a sound/tone is difficult when putting it into words. I have seen the use of the word "scooped" to describe a tone/sound.

Would someone care to elaborate what "scooped" is trying to describe? I have no idea what is meant by that word.

Thanks all.

"Scooped" indicates less midrange. Think of a graphic EQ set to a "smile" curve:

T: -----------
M: ----
B: ------------

This is a "frown" curve:

T: -----
M: ---------
B: ----

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

^^^ BF Fender is a classic scooped sound.

[Vladan]

"Scooped" indicates less midrange. Think of a graphic EQ set to a "smile" curve:

T: -----------
M: ----
B: ------------

This is a "frown" curve:

T: -----
M: ---------
B: ----

Sorry for bothering you, but could you, or anybody else, please, in terms of EQ explain some "usual" adjectives about the sound, especially "warm" and "fat"? Would "fat" be the opposite of "scooped"? Is warm opposite of harsh, or of brittle, or something else.
I really could never understood all those words.

To explain some more, usually I can tell if a sound needs more or less of bass, mids, highs and whatever inbetween, but I can never tell if it should be warmer, colder, scooped (ok now I know that), fatter, thinner ...

[rpguitar]

Fat refers to solid low midrange.
Warm also refers to solid low midrange, but it also implies diminished treble content.

Brittle means too much treble, usually without compensating lower frequency content (opposite of warm)
Harsh is similar to brittle, but with an emphasis on too much high midrange.

Scooped implies removal of midrange content to a greater or lesser degree.

[Vladan]

Thanks.

Fat
----
----
----
---
--

Warm
----
----
---
--
-

Brittle
-
--
--
---
----

Harsh
--
--
--
----
---

Thin?
--
---
----
----
----

Scooped
----
---
--
---
----

Oposite of Scooped?
--
---
----
---
--

[ruger9]

Fat refers to solid low midrange.
Warm also refers to solid low midrange, but it also implies diminished treble content.

Brittle means too much treble, usually without compensating lower frequency content (opposite of warm)
Harsh is similar to brittle, but with an emphasis on too much high midrange.

Scooped implies removal of midrange content to a greater or lesser degree.

Best descriptions I have seen. Well done!

[Suttykins]

I agree with all of rpguitar's definitions except I've always understood "fat" to mean that a sound has a broader frequency range.