Myth Buster - The Fender Twin Reverb is too heavy

[FrankyNoTone]

Man, do I feel like a lightweight. I like my 32lb, 1100 Watt, 130 SPL PA with its 10" speaker. The one with the 12" was WAY TOO HEAVY at ~40lbs. And those tube amps... nuts.

[mangotango]

You have to bear in mind that, without any disrespect to anyone concerned, that the vast majority of the the jazz dudes on here.......well....we're old guys. A Twin being only 64 lbs as opposed to other amps, doesn't prevent it being too (not 'to')heavy for those of us for whom hefting that kind of weight and transporting it in and out of cars, up stairs etc., is no longer a viable option. Especially if you don't need all that volume. It may be relatively light for its class; but that doesn't mean that some of us want to lug that class of amp around any more.

[SamBooka]

I still have flashbacks of when I was servicing an Ampeg SVT.. glad the client left the 8X10 cab at home. Compared to that the Twin is a walk in the park.

[mangotango]

I know. The medical bills aren't worth it. Not to mention the strain on the arms and you need those for playing the git.

That Evans combo looks more and more attractive every day.

Well, this is the new rig that I'm working to sort out:

Simple pedalboard, stereo out to Super Champ XD and Henriksen Jazzamp 110. No single component too heavy. More trips to and from the car, true; but, no hernia induced by carting big ol' amps.

[Keira Witherkay]

yeah i think it's an age issue .at 25 i was gigging with bands in clubs and our gear arrived with a 3 ton truck ..or 2 minivans for smaller gigs........at that point ...we'd use anything if it was loud and fat sounding .....

. NOW at age 50 ......and with technology allowing big sound from small speaker box's i can use a ZT guitar amp and a Bose PA system or even 2x bose systems get the same sound and load it into my hatchback by myself ..
without breaking a sweat

and let me add i looooove the tone and sound of the classic vintage amps ..... but i'm way too old .... to gig with them


i know we as guitarists (especially guitarists) have not embraced the future of sound reinforcement as easily as bassists and keyboard players have ...... and still crave the gear of 50years ago ........ which is great if you only gig occassionally ...but move that heavy amp 3x a week in rain and sleet ,up stairs not wider than the amp itself ..... any you very quickly realise why you may have those beautiful vintage amps in your studio but gig with your ZT and an extension cab

[DRS]

Funny
a Marshall 4x12 cab is heavier than a Twin and bulkier but many cite a tube head and a 4x12 as an alternative to a heavy combo. I think if you want the sound, you'll figure out a way of moving the stuff.

[mr. beaumont]

I think if you want the sound, you'll figure out a way of moving the stuff.

If I brought a 4 by 12" cabinet into a restaurant gig, it would be the last time I had that gig.

Weight isn't the only reason some of these things are impractical.

[2bornot2bop]

Man what a bunch of wimps. I used to curl twice that, and in the gym I always felt like a lightweight!

I've never understood the 'heavy amp syndrome'. You get it home and it sits where it's placed. If you're giggin' and don't want to lug around an amp you find too heavy bring yourself a smaller amp to the gig.

[Jim Soloway]

Funny
a Marshall 4x12 cab is heavier than a Twin and bulkier but many cite a tube head and a 4x12 as an alternative to a heavy combo. I think if you want the sound, you'll figure out a way of moving the stuff.

Most of us would have no use for a 4 x 12 Marshall so it never enters the conversation. As for sounding like a Twin, it really only gets "that" sound when it get pushed hard enough to warm up a bit and most of us rarely if ever get to play that loud. At the volume levels I play at, a Twin sounds thin and anemic. Maybe if I played with an organ trio I'd feel differently but for my purposes a Twin is not only inconvenient but it sounds lousy.

[Bebop Tom]

I would think that anyone who plays solo gigs in a quiet room would never have a need for a Twin Reverb. But if you play with a drummer, bassist, and a couple of horn players you would definately see the worth of using a Twin Reverb. Tube amps with high power are going to be heavy. For me, every time I brought my Polytone because I did not want to lug the Twin, I came home disappointed with my tone which made the whole experience less gratifying. I have not tried the modern solid state amps, but if one could sound like a Twin with all its richness and natural tube compression, I would be all over it. I have listened to all the sound samples posted in this forum with solid state and digital amplification, and I have yet to hear one example that sounds like a warm classic tube amp.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Funny
a Marshall 4x12 cab is heavier than a Twin and bulkier but many cite a tube head and a 4x12 as an alternative to a heavy combo. I think if you want the sound, you'll figure out a way of moving the stuff.

No, a SS head and say either a 1x12 or 2x10 cabinet. A 4x12 is upping the ante. Maybe if you are in a firepower war at a jam :lol:

[jorgemg1984]

Man what a bunch of wimps. I used to curl twice that, and in the gym I always felt like a lightweight!

I've never understood the 'heavy amp syndrome'. You get it home and it sits where it's placed. If you're giggin' and don't want to lug around an amp you find too heavy bring yourself a smaller amp to the gig.

The thing is.. a Twin is a waste in an apartment AND too heavy to take to most gigs. Most guys I know who had one sold it exactly because that, they ended up never wanting to carry it to gigs and it's too much of an amp to use at home.

[SamBooka]

If I brought a 4 by 12" cabinet into a restaurant gig, it would be the last time I had that gig.

Weight isn't the only reason some of these things are impractical.

Maybe if it is a restaurant gig you could put a table cloth over it and a couple of candles.

[jorgemg1984]

I would think that anyone who plays solo gigs in a quiet room would never have a need for a Twin Reverb. But if you play with a drummer, bassist, and a couple of horn players you would definately see the worth of using a Twin Reverb. Tube amps with high power are going to be heavy. For me, every time I brought my Polytone because I did not want to lug the Twin, I came home disappointed with my tone which made the whole experience less gratifying. I have not tried the modern solid state amps, but if one could sound like a Twin with all its richness and natural tube compression, I would be all over it. I have listened to all the sound samples posted in this forum with solid state and digital amplification, and I have yet to hear one example that sounds like a warm classic tube amp.

I hear you. Ideally one would always have a PA and any amp would do it. But when not... I have found the head / cab system to work very well. I have two small heads similar to a Polytone (mambo and henriksen) and then have two small cabs for small gigs and a big EV cab for the big gigs. The EV cab is heavy but still much lighter and a little smaller than a Twin. A good ss head will sound as big as a twin trough the right cab.

But it will not sound like a Twin for a number of other reasons: preamp voicing, cab design and speaker choice being the most obvious ones. Tube compression aside a jazzmaster ultralight trough a 2x12 open back cab sounds very close to a twin. My mambo head sounds very warm, not like a Twin because it's a flat frequency preamp not a mid scooped blackface. But very warm.

[lpdeluxe]

No, a SS head and say either a 1x12 or 2x10 cabinet. A 4x12 is upping the ante. Maybe if you are in a firepower war at a jam :lol:

I think that's the key. We have all heard bands that are LOUD but not very good. In the audience, I often hear complaints that the band is too loud. I have never heard anyone say, "that guitar needs to turn up!" When I've been on the bandstand, friends have complained that my harmonica was not loud enough, but guitar? No.

I frequent a local hotel that features jazz on Friday nights, and what I hear all the time is, "we can actually hold a conversation while the music's playing." Think about that: NOT annoying the paying customers. A Twin is almost always overkill. The rhythm guitarist in my usual band plays through a little Vox, with a mic on it. My bass rig these days is a 13 lb Mesa/Boogie head on two 16 lb Genz-Benz speakers. It speaks with authority (300W) and doesn't have to be cranked to sound good. I'll take the Jazzmaster Ultralight if I'm on guitar, or a Deluxe Reverb reissue I have sitting around. If either is not loud enough -- well, that's what mics are for.

Light, great sounding gear allows me to keep gigging at 71, and I'm a hell of a lot more interested in that than in having the most macho amplifier in the joint.

And, yeah, I still think the Twin is too heavy.

[jorgemg1984]

Ipdeluxe the thing is sometimes one does not have a PA... and without a big cab, if the band has some horns - it's tough... even with high power ss amps like the jmul the cab makes a lot of difference on not sounding small and boxy. We're not always playing on restaurants and hotels

[Jim Soloway]

[QUOTE=lpdeluxe;321490]
I frequent a local hotel that features jazz on Friday nights, and what I hear all the time is, "we can actually hold a conversation while the music's playing." Think about that: NOT annoying the paying customers./QUOTE]

I played restaurants as a solo for a long time and we had a pretty simple rule: the waiter/waitress should be able to take an order at conversational volume levels two tables from where I was playing.

[SamBooka]

My first fender amp (or at least the first I rebuilt.. it has been a while) was a 135w UL Twin.
A previous owner had the forsight to convert it to a head.

[Woody Sound]

It seems like every time the word "Twin" comes up one of the first things you read is, "it's to heavy". Of course it is heavy but what's been confusing me is why you don't often hear that said when other 2X12 tube combo amps are mentioned where as with the Twin it's almost a knee jerk reaction. Of course I know that most of those comments come from folks who like light weight 15W 10" speaker amps but in all fairness I think that's a bit like comparing Volkswagens to Cadillacs and a more fair comparison is, how does the Twin compare to other amps in it's class? Here's what I found.

30 - 2X12 TUBE COMBO AMPS BY WEIGHT

TOTAL = 2,117.26 LBS.
AVERAGE WEIGHT = 70.56 LBS.
TWIN = 6.56 LBS. LESS THAN AVERAGE

For perspective, I think few of these amps are thought of as "jazz" amps. But the Twin has such a history, it is. And as an "amp for jazz" goes, it is heavy.

[Woody Sound]

My Pearce is almost 70 lbs. A lot of that has to do with the solid oak cab and the single EVM12 speaker.

http://i51.tinypic.com/313p3de.jpg

When I was in my 20s and 30s I use to lug it up and down my apt stairs a few times a week for gigs and rehearsals.

Now I can barely get it over the threshold in our ground-level ranch, even on casters. Let alone have to take it somewhere.

I'm in the process of building a smaller lighter version of the Pearce Combo. Solid pine cab, neo speaker. Will post the results when I'm done.

[mangotango]

Man what a bunch of wimps. I used to curl twice that, and in the gym I always felt like a lightweight!

I've never understood the 'heavy amp syndrome'. You get it home and it sits where it's placed. If you're giggin' and don't want to lug around an amp you find too heavy bring yourself a smaller amp to the gig.

"Used to". There's your key, right there.

I "Used To" play bass through a 200w amp with a 2 x 10 and a 1x 15 reflex bin at a time when I was living upstairs in a shared house, and carry that stuff up and down stairs without thinking about it.

Now it's my own house, and all the little amps stay in the garage. And the only thing I curl is "curl up in bed after the gig and sleep soundly".

[BEACHBUM]

For perspective, I think few of these amps are thought of as "jazz" amps. But the Twin has such a history, it is. And as an "amp for jazz" goes, it is heavy.

I think a few here have misunderstood my intention. First I didn't gather this data based on genre specific amps. All I did was randomly take the first 30 2X12 tube combo amps I came across on the net omitting none. So my OP is not intended to compare the Twin to other Jazz suitable amps but rather to compare it across the board and without prejudice to other amps of its kind. Secondly, it seems some have assumed that I'm trying to contend that the notion that the Twin is a heavy amp is a myth when that is not the case at all. Of course it's heavy. The only myth I am addressing is that the Twin, by many, is believed to be overly heavy within it's own class, nothing more, and nothing less.

[Bebop Tom]

And I would reply to that by suggesting that the Twin Reverb is not considered heavy within its own class. It is considered too heavy when compared to currently available alternatives (none of which are high wattage 2x12 tube combos).

[BEACHBUM]

And I would reply to that by suggesting that the Twin Reverb is not considered heavy within its own class. It is considered too heavy when compared to currently available alternatives (none of which are high wattage 2x12 tube combos).

I don't know how to respond to that other than to say that you seem to have been reading different threads than I have. How does a simple list of amp weights become controversial? I don't don't get it.

[cosmic gumbo]

. The only myth I am addressing is that the Twin, by many, is believed to be overly heavy within it's own class, nothing more, and nothing less.

That is not ever an issue discussed in this forum. It's always about that class of amp being too heavy. We all here seem to agree that a twin or a jc120 is too heavy to be an amp transportable in a practical enough way to use gigging. Bust that myth!