Myth Buster - The Fender Twin Reverb is too heavy

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Yes the Twin is too heavy to lug around to gigs IMO. It's like (WHY???) when there are other, much less stress
on the body, options to lug around that sound great for jazz gigs (solid state). So many great sounding
solid state amps for jazz out there you'll ask yourself, "why am I lugging this behemoth around"?

Fortunately even for rock players who think they just have to have tube amps, most of those amps have an option
for a separate head and cabinet. So those dudes aren't necessarily stuck lugging around a heavy combo amp.
Unfortunately most of the tube amps that also sound great for jazz, and have the headroom for jazz gigs,
don't seem to have a head version to help cut down on the weight issue.

I suppose you could get a couple of Deluxe's or something like that? Although the solid state option is still
going to be lighter and more cost effective as well.

As mentioned on the TDPRI version of this thread, there is a head version of the Twin Reverb. It is the Dual Showman Reverb head. It hasn't been made in a while, though.

[Little Jay]

How about a 70ies Japanese Pearl Sunflower? Silverface Twin Reverb copy, but solid state. They even seem to sound good (have no experience with that, though). Slap in some neodynium speakers and you've got your Twin for 1/3 the weight....

[img]http://www.musiker-board.de/attachme...3-dsc_0166.jpg[/img]

Well, not really the same thing of course..... but kinda cool, ain't it?

(btw... I love my Japanese 70ies Guyatone Twin Reverb copy (full tube, same weight as the original) and whenever the gig allows it - read: cheap parking space close to the venue - I take that. But most of the time my AER Alpha or my Session Rockette are more practical....)

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

How about a 70ies Japanese Pearl Sunflower? Silverface Twin Reverb copy, but solid state. They even seem to sound good (have no experience with that, though). Slap in some neodynium speakers and you've got your Twin for 1/3 the weight....

It might be hard to track down a Japanese amp from the 70s! For a contemporary, non-expensive 2x12" SS combo, I've seen recommendations for the Carvin SX200. 46lbs.

[Little Jay]

All you sissies. I have no problem hefting my Twin: Amazon.com: VOX APTW AmPlug Twin Guitar Headphone Amplifier: Musical Instruments .

Don't get it either... my Twin is light as a feather:
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...r_minitwin.JPG[/IMG]

[Little Jay]

It might be hard to track down a Japanese amp from the 70s! For a contemporary, non-expensive 2x12" SS combo, I've seen recommendations for the Carvin SX200. 46lbs.

I see them come by on auction sites quite regularly, this one went for under €100: Verstärker Transisionsverstärker Pearl Sunflower 1200 ~1960/70 | eBay

[TieDyedDevil]

Y'know, I've seen this same initial post on darned near every guitar-related forum I've visited. BEACHBUM, are you trying to sell a Twin, or something...?

Seriously, though... I get the point: the Twin is not that heavy when you look at all the amps on the playing field.

Tube amps in general have to be heavy because of the iron in the transformers; that, in turn, demands a more robust (heavier, thicker) chassis.

And then the cabinets themselves contribute to the weight. Durable tolex-covered birch plywood is a *lot* heavier than a vintage tweed-covered pine cabinet of comparable dimensions.

I'm just glad that I've been able to find a 30 pound amp that I really like. A Twin may not be "too heavy" when you look at the big picture, but amps of that general size and weight are too big and heavy for me.

[2bornot2bop]

And don't forget 16 pounds of any twin's weight is in a pair of magnets. Why have 10's when you can go for 12's!?

Seriously....anyone who thinks a twin is too heavy only has to either invest into a set of wheels or make themselves a piano dolly...which I keep in the garage at the ready anyway just to have around the house in case I need it. I hope I never get to the point to where I feel 60 pounds is heavy!

[cosmic gumbo]

Seriously....anyone who thinks a twin is too heavy only has to either invest into a set of wheels or make themselves a piano dolly...

So how does this help me with the always present evil enemy...stairs?

[oldane]

I hope I never get to the point to where I feel 60 pounds is heavy!

Oh, but you'll get there for shure. Just wait till the knee arthritis or low back pain sets in like it has for a lot of us.

[BEACHBUM]

Y'know, I've seen this same initial post on darned near every guitar-related forum I've visited. BEACHBUM, are you trying to sell a Twin, or something...?

It would seem like that, but no, I'm still lovin my Twin as confirmed by the fact that I'm 66 and still willing to lug the beast around. Of course I never say no to some young fellow who takes pity on me and offers to carry it for me. After all, at my age, pride can often lead to back failure.

[2bornot2bop]

Oh, but you'll get there for shure. Just wait till the knee arthritis or low back pain sets in like it has for a lot of us.

For sure, if one lives long enough their strength will diminish. But 60 pounds?

This is a good place for a true story that actually happened.

It was 1984, when I'd met Connie, my later to be first wife. Connie and I began in a small house across the street from Lou Ann and Ray, Connie's sister and her husband.

Ray was an old school cat all of 65. He owned a wreckin' yard that didn't have a single Asian car...not Ray...he was a died in the wool made in the USA only kind of guy.

Anyway, Ray and Lou Ann would argue constantly....they were always bumping heads about this that and the other. During one of these hot head arguments between them Ray storms off sayin' he's movin' out to their empty rental house across the street. What happened next I'd not have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes.

Ray's going back and forth across the street carrying boxes of stuff. Not wanting to get involved, as I'm lookin' out my front window, on this next trip here comes 65 year old Ray carrying an old school iron wood stove cradled in his arms resting against his chest and beer belly. Ray carried that stove, which had to weigh more than 250 lbs., some 60 yards or more from their living room to the rental across the street all the while cursing at Lou Ann the whole way.

I was 35 years Ray's junior, and there's no way in *ell I'd have been able to carry that stove 10 feet.

Moral of the story...if a 60 pound amp seems too heavy for you perhaps it's time to begin a strength program...I've known guys who lift well into their late 70's....But 60-65 nowadays is not old today. Certainly not too old to lift 60 pounds.

[2bornot2bop]

So how does this help me with the always present evil enemy...stairs?

Come on CG...surely you could figure a way to get an amp up the stairs...lift, set on next step, repeat. simple right!

[ESCC]

For sure, if one lives long enough their strength will diminish. But 60 pounds?

This is a good place for a true story that actually happened.

It was 1984, when I'd met Connie, my later to be first wife. Connie and I began in a small house across the street from Lou Ann and Ray, Connie's sister and her husband.

Ray was an old school cat all of 65. He owned a wreckin' yard that didn't have a single Asian car...not Ray...he was a died in the wool made in the USA only kind of guy.

Anyway, Ray and Lou Ann would argue constantly....they were always bumping heads about this that and the other. During one of these hot head arguments between them Ray storms off sayin' he's movin' out to their empty rental house across the street. What happened next I'd not have believed it had I not seen it with my own eyes.

Ray's going back and forth across the street carrying boxes of stuff. Not wanting to get involved, as I'm lookin' out my front window, on this next trip here comes 65 year old Ray carrying an old school iron wood stove cradled in his arms resting against his chest and beer belly. Ray carried that stove, which had to weigh more than 250 lbs., some 60 yards or more from their living room to the rental across the street all the while cursing at Lou Ann the whole way.

I was 35 years Ray's junior, and there's no way in *ell I'd have been able to carry that stove 10 feet.

Moral of the story...if a 60 pound amp seems too heavy for you perhaps it's time to begin a strength program...I've known guys who lift well into their late 70's....But 60-65 nowadays is not old today. Certainly not too old to lift 60 pounds.

Hmmm, the moral to that story is, when you have a gig where only the Twin will do, get in a fight with your wife before loading up!

[oldane]

For sure, if one lives long enough their strength will diminish. But 60 pounds?

Yes, 60 pounds - and less BTW. This is not about muscular strength. It's quite obvious that you don't have knee arthritis (yet). I have. That makes the whole difference.

[SamBooka]

OT.

How would you feel about a twin with two top handles ala AC30?
Side handles like a Marshall?

A top handle and a bottom handle.. flip the amp on its side and you can reach both.

[cosmic gumbo]

If I could just stuff it into my back pocket, I'd be all set. Truth be told, I'm in and out of the house 3 or 4 times a week with my gear, and now that I'm not a young buck anymore, being 5'8" and 140lbs, I just don't have it in me to wrestle with heavy amps, even after all those years at the quarry.

[barrymclark]

My JC120 is a boat anchor. ... But it has casters.

[Little Jay]

I watched Gilad Hekselman last night, playing with a wonderful whisper-quiet tone, thru a Silverface Twin! (He didn't have to carry it home though.... ;-)

[2bornot2bop]

Yes, 60 pounds - and less BTW. This is not about muscular strength. It's quite obvious that you don't have knee arthritis (yet). I have. That makes the whole difference.

As a former tournament fighter, trust me, I have my own set of physical issues.

Have you considered regular acupunture treatment to increase your circulation. There are many different methods to attack arthritis which limits its capacity to impact your life style. You've got to be active, and adhere to an established training regimen....like its your religion.

[oldane]

As a former tournament fighter, trust me, I have my own set of physical issues.

Have you considered regular acupunture treatment to increase your circulation. There are many different methods to attack arthritis which limits its capacity to impact your life style. You've got to be active, and adhere to an established training regimen....like its your religion.

OK, so a Twin amp is a must, and to handle that I have to devote myself to a religious training regime in the gym and have regular acupuncture treatment plus whatever? Well, I don't buy that.

First, I'm not religious or devout in any way and deliberately don't want to be.

Second, I have pretty good inside knowledge of medicine, and frankly, I don't believe in acupuncture apart from its placebo effect and I have not seen any solid scientific evidence of its effect on arthritis (or to be more precise: osteoarthrosis in my case). As I see it, worn away cartilage is worn away cartilage and bone rubbing against bone hurts no matter how many needles you stick into your skin.

Third, I see no reason to have a Twin as a part of my musical lifestyle - and pay the dues for it - when a Mambo head (or an AI head and a good preamp pedal) with a Redstone speaker actually works very well for me.

Apart from that, it's very true that an active lifestyle and keeping up good muscular strength is some the best one can do to lessen the symptoms of osteoarthrosis. Swimming and biking with a high cadenca and a low load is good (the opposite is bad). That way one can move some of the load from the bones to the surrounding muscles and connective tissue. Weight loss is also beneficial. But still, no Twin for me. :-)

[yebdox]

I get that it's more volume than one needs in a small room. But I found a Twin modified w/ Weber blue dogs far superior to the smaller cab of the Deluxe...not even in the same ballpark. So, there's one plausible justification for keepin' a Twin around....TONE...that can't be matched by smaller cabs...all in my experience, of course.

I will second that with regards to tone (personal opinion, of course.) The wonderful tone of the Twin is the ONLY point, else there would be no discussion here. What a dilemma.... it's nice to have the tone you hear in your head, no matter where you play.

I have a Twin that started as a 73 Dual Showman, and was blackfaced by Rick Weber (Vintage Sound amps) - it sounds amazing. And I have a 35 watt "Deluxe" by Rick as well, along with a 40 watt Allen Old Flame. The latter two sound really nice and I WAS perfectly happy with either of them, but the Twin was a bargain on eBay a couple of years ago, and already knowing how meticulous Rick is, I couldn't pass it up... plus I was gigging with a louder band at the time.

The Twin sounds great at any volume and right now, I'm mostly playing archtop jazz in the basement with the Twin on 2-3, so I would never tell people it doesn't work at bedroom volumes. It's still all there, at any level, at least mine is. Dimension, clarity, warmth... just all the right frequencies at all the right levels, no matter what guitar. But, I don't take it to a jam - too much trouble to get it up past a narrow stair case and through the kitchen without dinging my wife's designer fridge. At 57, I'm still in pretty good shape, and I still usually take one of the smaller amps, unless I really need the headroom. (They aren't much lighter, though.)

I sometimes wonder if a Deluxe fitted into a deeper cab wouldn't make me a bit happier... when I swap outputs to the other cabs, both the smaller amps sound better through the twin cab (celestion GT-65s) and never quite sound as 3 dimensional in their own cabs or with a 1x12 extension, no matter which speakers I rotate through them. A Deluxe is at least 1" shorter in depth than a standard Twin, although the Allen comes closer and actually sounds better with the Deluxe playing through the Allen cab. Go figure.

Good health does allow for more options, for sure. Having great guitar tone should be added to the list of benefits from lifelong exercise! The sirens of tone... calling us to steer our ships towards the treacherous rocks of personal fitness, finance and time. Shipwrecked, anyone? Gilligan?

[2bornot2bop]

I will second that with regards to tone (personal opinion, of course.) The wonderful tone of the Twin is the ONLY point, else there would be no discussion here. What a dilemma.... it's nice to have the tone you hear in your head, no matter where you play.

I have a Twin that started as a 73 Dual Showman, and was blackfaced by Rick Weber (Vintage Sound amps) - it sounds amazing. And I have a 35 watt "Deluxe" by Rick as well, along with a 40 watt Allen Old Flame. The latter two sound really nice and I WAS perfectly happy with either of them, but the Twin was a bargain on eBay a couple of years ago, and already knowing how meticulous Rick is, I couldn't pass it up... plus I was gigging with a louder band at the time.

The Twin sounds great at any volume and right now, I'm mostly playing archtop jazz in the basement with the Twin on 2-3, so I would never tell people it doesn't work at bedroom volumes. It's still all there, at any level, at least mine is. Dimension, clarity, warmth... just all the right frequencies at all the right levels, no matter what guitar. But, I don't take it to a jam - too much trouble to get it up past a narrow stair case and through the kitchen without dinging my wife's designer fridge. At 57, I'm still in pretty good shape, and I still usually take one of the smaller amps, unless I really need the headroom. (They aren't much lighter, though.)

I sometimes wonder if a Deluxe fitted into a deeper cab wouldn't make me a bit happier... when I swap outputs to the other cabs, both the smaller amps sound better through the twin cab (celestion GT-65s) and never quite sound as 3 dimensional in their own cabs or with a 1x12 extension, no matter which speakers I rotate through them. A Deluxe is at least 1" shorter in depth than a standard Twin, although the Allen comes closer and actually sounds better with the Deluxe playing through the Allen cab. Go figure.

Good health does allow for more options, for sure. Having great guitar tone should be added to the list of benefits from lifelong exercise! The sirens of tone... calling us to steer our ships towards the treacherous rocks of personal fitness, finance and time. Shipwrecked, anyone? Gilligan?

to my ears you're right on track with this CAB business.

I had 2 twins, one a fender, the other a boutique hand wired built on an early 60's fender circuit.

I got the bright idea, that I didn't need a twin style amp since I'm only playing at home and not giggin' out. And after going through 4 small cab amps, a Fender Deluxe, a Kendrick, a JA, and a Twin with a speaker upgrade...and after previewing over a dozen VSA, and other solidly built amps some 2 weeks ago, there's not one of them that could match that special something to be had from a decent 212 cabinet design amp. I'm now convinced there's not a small cabinet amp on the planet that will satisfy me.

So, I've kept a Headstrong 212, which came to me as a steal, until I can find something better...frankly, I don't ever see a small cabinet amp in the works for me ever...for no small amp I've heard can match the sonics of even the few larger cab amps I've owned or heard...especially played at low volume levels. I can't define what the difference is, but it's not volume, and I sure as heck can hear the tonal dynamics of the larger cab every time. Works 4 me!

[yebdox]

I can't define what the difference is, but it's not volume, and I sure as heck can hear the tonal dynamics of the larger cab every time. Works 4 me!

Bingo - I can't really explain it either. That cliche of "like taking the blanket off the amp" is probably about as good as any. I find the same thing with overdrive/fusion/blues tones... MUCH better through a closed back 2x12 (I don't have a 4x12... YET!) even at low volumes. Something is missing otherwise.

And I'm sorry, but I have a ZT Club and a Cube 80x, for the rare occasions when I have to schlep something on a plane (the Club fits in a large roller bag, with clothes around it) or just need to noodle in my rec room and don't want to schlep a decent amp out and then back. They are both capable of passable tones, with some tweaking, but again, something is missing.

Tubes, Baby, Tubes! It's an unfortunate taste in tone... would be so much easier to enjoy a solid state amp.

[pdfiddler]

The Twin Reverb is the only Fender Amp that never has gone out of production in the history of Fender.

[pdfiddler]

I think that's the key. We have all heard bands that are LOUD but not very good. In the audience, I often hear complaints that the band is too loud. I have never heard anyone say, "that guitar needs to turn up!" When I've been on the bandstand, friends have complained that my harmonica was not loud enough, but guitar? No.

I frequent a local hotel that features jazz on Friday nights, and what I hear all the time is, "we can actually hold a conversation while the music's playing." Think about that: NOT annoying the paying customers. A Twin is almost always overkill. The rhythm guitarist in my usual band plays through a little Vox, with a mic on it. My bass rig these days is a 13 lb Mesa/Boogie head on two 16 lb Genz-Benz speakers. It speaks with authority (300W) and doesn't have to be cranked to sound good. I'll take the Jazzmaster Ultralight if I'm on guitar, or a Deluxe Reverb reissue I have sitting around. If either is not loud enough -- well, that's what mics are for.

Light, great sounding gear allows me to keep gigging at 71, and I'm a hell of a lot more interested in that than in having the most macho amplifier in the joint.






And, yeah, I still think the Twin is too heavy.

I think what we really want is no conversation while playing. Then we know we are doing our best job. I they want conversation go listen to a radio