Jazz amp or not

**kris** · 03-02-2013, 03:03 PM

Hello jazz guitarists,
I would like to discus the problem why so many types of amps are "good sounding" for rock but not for jazz...
Is it so difficult to made amp with clean sound or it is just pop cultur?

**ooglybong** · 03-02-2013, 03:17 PM

Huh. I dunno, but often I've wondered the same thing.
I definitely have my two types of amps. Some could most likely cross over to the other side but a few (my Wholetone, for instance) would probably not be able to survive the trip!

(As far as the 'rock' sounds that *I* go for, that is. You can certainly play anything on anything, depending on the definitions of what those things 'ought' to be sounding like—in your own head, of course. IMHO and YMMV.)
Just sayin'....

**NSJ** · 03-02-2013, 03:43 PM

I think it's often down to balance. When the treble strings sound warm, crisp and clean, the bass strings CAN sound like mud. Or vice versa.

**kris** · 03-02-2013, 03:44 PM

Sound is in the fingers but if you use proper amp..:-)

**kris** · 03-02-2013, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

I think it's often down to balance. When the treble strings sound warm, crisp and clean, the bass strings CAN sound like mud. Or vice versa.

+1

**rpguitar** · 03-02-2013, 04:38 PM

It may be true that lots of amps don't sound good for jazz, but I've never had a problem finding one that does.

**limescout** · 03-02-2013, 05:00 PM

Some amps are designed to have really low headroom, so rock guitarists can overdrive the amp at a low volume. This makes playing clean impossible unless the amp is turned WAY down.

I took one of my amps to my local guitar shop recently to get the tubes replaced. The technician and I had a talk about tubes, and he gave me the impression that the stock tubes they use in some amplifiers are really crappy, and the ones he replaced them with were high-quality. After hearing this, I was excited to try out the new tubes, thinking my amp would sound a lot better. Instead, the "high-quality" replacement tubes had very little high end, making the usable volume of my amp almost half what it was before. I was pretty pissed about this for a while, but then I realized that this effect was desirable for rock music, because it makes it easier to overdrive the amp. The tech probably thought I would appreciate a dirtier sound, so he put these tubes in with low headroom.

So I guess the moral is that maybe some amps are good for rock, but with the right tubes, could gain some headroom and be suitable for jazz as well

**kris** · 03-02-2013, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by rpguitar

It may be true that lots of amps don't sound good for jazz, but I've never had a problem finding one that does.

Hi Roger,
What is your favorite clean sounding amp?

**jazzkatten** · 03-02-2013, 05:38 PM

The best amp for clean I have tested is a Henriksen, but they are expensive here in Sweden

**NSJ** · 03-02-2013, 05:40 PM

I have a Fender Twin, no problem with clean head room. Actually I have a stereo setup with not just a jazz amp, but the Jazz Amp by Henriksen.

Love my setup--I guess I have a jazz amp and a rock amp.

**Tom Karol** · 03-02-2013, 06:22 PM

I've only owned one amp that was great for both Rock and Jazz: A Rivera R55-112 upgraded with a Weber California 12 (paper dome) speaker and a long 6-spring reverb tank. It had 5 12AX7's in the preamp, 2 foot-switchable channels each with its own 'boost' function, and 2 EL34's (yes EL34's, not 6L6's) in the power amp with a Solid State rectifier. Excellent clean headroom and versatile tone shaping, but also very good light and heavy distortion if needed. Great build quality, too, but it weighed 47 pounds - not excessive I suppose - but more than I wanted to carry around anymore.

**docbop** · 03-02-2013, 06:36 PM

Like everything ists driven by market size and Rock et al has huge market with lots of money to burn. Jazz is a tiny niche market so the R&D investment and production costs are too small to make it worth it. What I don't understand is bass amp in general are clean amps and some nice heads, many of those amps with small changes to tone stack could be great jazz guitar amp head. AI amps are actually marketed to both upright bassists and jazz guitarists.

All about the $$$

**woyvel** · 03-02-2013, 10:11 PM

There are plenty of good, crystal clear clean amps with abundant headroom that are good for jazz, and many are solid state. Getting a good rock sound out of that amp might require some pedals, but with the number of pedals available, I'm pretty sure you can work to get the rock sound you need from a Henriksen or a Polytone; or Rivera or Twin. I personally have no problems getting serviceable rock tones out of my Vox modeling amp, my Polytone (with pedals) and my ZT Lunchbox Jr. Never any tone complaints.

The same can't be said of a good rock amp for jazz. I can't quite dial in a great high-headroom jazz tone with the Vox, even though it should be the most versatile of the 3 I have. I also wouldn't use a handful of other tube amps for jazz. If money weren't an object, I still wouldn't start my jazz amp search with Vox, Marshall or a Mesa Boogie dual rectifier. The Standell amp I first played through many years ago was so cool, but couldn't do anything but garage rock, which it did exceptionally well.

**OldGuitarPlayer** · 03-02-2013, 10:36 PM

A Fender Deluxe Reverb will handle most jazz, blues or rock situations.

Jazz amp or not-fenderdeluxereverb-jpg

**rpguitar** · 03-03-2013, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by kris

What is your favorite clean sounding amp?

Kris, my favorite amp is the Princeton Reverb, especially with a 12" speaker. If it is not loud enough, I like the Acoustic Image Clarus into any number of cabs. I have a Redstone 8" and the Fender 12" that comes with the Ultralight rig.

**feet** · 03-03-2013, 05:23 AM

i just look for a good sounding amp, and then i tell it to play jazz or rock or whatever. finding that amp is harder that i thought, though. i like it to sound alive. most jazz amps sound flat and boring to me. most rock amps have just a plain, serviceable clean because that isn't really the point, and most rock and metal guys don't know what a good clean is anyway.

as it stands, i have a top hat and a vox and they both do whatever i tell them to, and do it quite well. i have a jc77 sitting around, as well, but i don't care for it nearly as much. it does serve a purpose, though. and it works well with acoustics/floaters.

**jorgemg1984** · 03-03-2013, 07:51 AM

Well it depends on what one calls a "jazz" sound... some guys like a little grit even for jazz. If you want 100% clean most 30w or more tube amps deliver it at reasonable volumes.

Then it's a matter of voicing of the amp which is completely different from headroom - I find a lot of amps / cabs / speaker designs have a lot of high mids which are great for cut trough rock sounds but too harsh for jazz... on a fender blackface tyoe amp I usually "Invert" the mids: boost the low-mids and cut the high-mids. If you are served with a high headroom amp and have a good eq pedal you can get any sound out of it.

**kris** · 03-03-2013, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Well it depends on what one calls a "jazz" sound... some guys like a little grit even for jazz. If you want 100% clean most 30w or more tube amps deliver it at reasonable volumes.

Then it's a matter of voicing of the amp which is completely different from headroom - I find a lot of amps / cabs / speaker designs have a lot of high mids which are great for cut trough rock sounds but too harsh for jazz... on a fender blackface tyoe amp I usually "Invert" the mids: boost the low-mids and cut the high-mids. If you are served with a high headroom amp and have a good eq pedal you can get any sound out of it.

Jazz amp,jazz sound- I mean clean,warm, loud sound...no distortion chanell/I do not use it/.
I think acoustic amps go in this direction but they are for acoustic instruments.
Standard jazz box/arch-top/ sounds different than solid body strats,tele,lesplauls etc.
AI clarus is a great clean sounding head in.ex...
I was in the musical shop and I could not find any amp similar to Mambo or AI.
I think amps from 60's sounds more clean because "distortion" was not so popular...:-)

**jorgemg1984** · 03-03-2013, 08:26 AM

I get you Kris - but what you're talking about is not sound but headroom. A twin reverb is as clean as a Mambo but they sound very different, because they are voiced differently. I have played Fenders, Boogies, Dr Zs, Two Rocks and plenty of other amps who are very clean at loud volumes. They don't all sound good for jazz (whatever that is) because of their preamp voicing, cab design or speaker...

**kris** · 03-03-2013, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I get you Kris - but what you're talking about is not sound but headroom. A twin reverb is as clean as a Mambo but they sound very different, because they are voiced differently. I have played Fenders, Boogies, Dr Zs, Two Rocks and plenty of other amps who are very clean at loud volumes. They don't all sound good for jazz (whatever that is) because of their preamp voicing, cab design or speaker...

I know some jazz guitarists with expensive hollow-body Gibsons and they like to play old Twins reverb...I think it is very heavy -big amp.
anyway headroom is a key...:-)

**jorgemg1984** · 03-03-2013, 09:28 AM

Yes, no doubt. I personally don't find the Twin's stock voicing perfect for jazz... but it's so clean an eq pedal will put you where you want

I like my eqs so much one of these days I'll have a small tube head built with no eq!

**kris** · 03-03-2013, 10:05 AM

"voicing perfect for jazz"....it is also very important guitar you use.Every guitar has differnt construction,pick up's,wood and finaly sound.Some hollow sounds good and some no...:-)

**jorgemg1984** · 03-03-2013, 11:34 AM

Well of course... a lot of contributes to tone besides the amp. With my gear and way of playing a Twin does not make it, headroom is necessary but it's not everything! But it works wonders for others

**kris** · 03-03-2013, 12:00 PM

Headroom is very important and quality of the sound also.
I tried a lot of tube amps and I can say all of them have not nice clean sound.Every one has differnt clean chanell..:-)
If you play loud or not the sound is not clean... may be quality of tubes,speakers,construction etc.

**xuoham** · 03-03-2013, 12:15 PM

I wonder how many people go this route and it definitely isn't a purist approach but a nice amp and speaker sim from a digital floor board (TC, line 6, zoom, boss, ...) along with a keyboard amp does the trick for me.
Since i use acoustic sounds also i have no choice anyway, i need an amp with full frequency range.
But since i\m on a low budget, any AER amp or other fancy acoustic amps are a bit out of reach.

I see are many advantages with this setup regarding flexibility, among which dialing the grit on demand to get the slight overdrive one can hear on some Wes recordings for example. With an ultra clean and sharp sound one preset away.
One con though: it's hard to find an amp/speaker sim that doesn't cut all bass below around 100 Hz. The best speaker sim i ever had regarding bass response was my MesaBoogie studio preamp.
I have the Roland KC350 keyboard amp and it works great for small venues, plenty of punch. Just a bit heavy to carry and also one has to trim some bass at high volumes.
Anyway, though not the real deal, those digital amp sim are getting really close, and the ease of use and flexibility has gotten me convinced a long time ago already.