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I use a Fender Hot Rod DeVille III 212 with a 212 Celestion extention cab. This may sound like overkill, but extra speakers don't necessarily mean louder. When I got the amp it sounded horrible; it needed new tubes. I talked to the tube tech at Amplified Parts.com (Antique Electronics), explained the sound I was looking for and he suggested a tube set that made the sound spot on with what I wanted. I have been playing since the early'60's, and I think a good sound can be achieved by working with the equipment. Sometimes it takes a lot of knob turning on both amp and guitar to hit the desired sound. That is my $.02, maybe simplistic, but it has worked for me for many, many years.
JM1021
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03-03-2013 01:15 PM
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Boosting the low mids and cutting the highs is exactly what I do with a Zoom G3 modeling pedal. I then run the equalized sound through a Fender Twin sim and a Tangerine cab sim and into a Alto powered speaker. Changing either the amp or the cab model discernibly changes the character of the clean. Even just the different Fender cab sims each generate distinctive sounds.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I do, as described above. For jazz it compares nicely to my Mesa Boogie and California Blonde amps - only cheaper and lighter. I really haven't enough gear to know how faithfully the modeled sounds replicate the originals, so I can't say if I would like a particular original amp better on a particular day or in a particular room. But with the modeler you certainly get a lot of distinctive choices to pick from - even when just picking among clean sounds. Originally Posted by xuoham
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Kris, have you tried a Class D Bass Amp head with a good speaker cabinet, Bass amps have great clean channels and lots of headroom, you can add your fav pedals/effects for reverb, rock etc. Originally Posted by kris
I would suggest, you go to your local music shop and play your guitar through a Bass amp head and good speaker cabinet. See if you like the sound.
I have the TC Electronic Classic 450 amp head, sounds good to me with my fav pedals/effects.
Guy
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But usually the eqs are not good for electric guitars. Which should be easy to mod anyway - or just using a good eq pedal in front or in the fx loop. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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That is good idea.I have to cheque some bass heads. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
thanks
Kris
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.1 Dual Professional (custom shop)
.2 Twin reverb
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Hi folks, I'm playing jazz through an Ampeg J12R good little amp,although there is no mid adjustment.
bought a Boss pedal EQ to help with a Boss TR-2 Tremolo pedal.
To play at lower volume without tone loss, I made a treble boost mod. using a .001uf capacitor parallel soldered to
a 150Kohm Capacitor. Leaving two short legs to solder to the in and out terminals of the volume pot.
Now when I turn down to lower volumes,I do not loose the highs and get a more even tone all the way.
I'm sure a lot of you are aware of this mod,but thought I would pass it on to anyone who might want to play at lower volumes.
Jazz has always been in my heart and soul,It will never leave. Clyde
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The Fender SCXD or SCX2 would work - great clean channel based on blackface amps, numerous modeling voices ranging from Tweed and Blackface to Jazzking. I'm not sure I would play metal on it, but it's incredibly versatile.
i use the Jazzking setting 90% of the time because it nails that warm Kenny Burrell tone.
It only has a 10" speaker but there is a 12" cabinet that goes with the head that you could also plug into for a fuller sound.
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I like a good tube amp as much as the next person, but no desire to pull my back out.
I played a Henriksen 110 for the first time this weekend. It may be a one trick pony as some have noted, but, also have others have noted, it sounds great. Would like some flexibility so I figured the Henriksen head would be perfect and went looking just to find they don't make them anymore. Jeez.Last edited by Spook410; 03-04-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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My biggest problem was not finding the right sounding amp but finding the right sounding amp that was small, compact and light because of a bad back. The amps that I use were definitely made for rock and practice amps at that. At first I was using a Kustom 12 Gauge which is a solid state amp that gave me a nice clean sound that weighed only about 25 pounds. Then I found an Ampeg J-20 Jet amp which was advertized and demonstrated as a clean rock amp with early breakup for that blues and 60s sound. When I tried it with my DeArmond Rhythm Chief, it gave a really nice, clean and warm jazz sound at a decent volume without any problems. No other small amp I ever used could give me the same sound. I also used a Fender Twin which was perfect but at approximately 70 pounds, it might as well be bolted to the floor.
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I believe the problem lies more within the frequency spectrum that the lower register of the guitar covers, and isn't necessarily a genre specific problem. Originally Posted by kris
Hello jazz guitarists,
I would like to discus the problem why so many types of amps are "good sounding" for rock but not for jazz...
Is it so difficult to made amp with clean sound or it is just pop cultur?
Take the low E string for example; the fundamental frequencies are between about 82Hz and 164Hz in the first octave. I find that about 110 to 160Hz doesn't sound particularly pleasing - it's just boomy and overly resonant. If you like to turn your treble down to "fatten" the G, B and E strings, you'll find that the E and A strings sound too boomy. You're effectively focusing the amp's EQ response to these regions, hence hearing more "thump" on the treble strings.
Blues, rock and heavy metal stylistically have some sort of distortion or saturation to make up the tone. If you add distortion to a pure sine wave, you get harmonics - i.e. it sounds thicker, more harmonically rich. You also get the benefit of compression to even out the frequency dynamics (and poor technique!) - i.e. the low end is not as detached from the upper mids and doesn't sound as boomy. A clean tone, especially one without tubes, is more faithful to the fundamental frequencies of the notes you are playing. The harmonics are still there, just not as prominent.
Speaker choice and cabinet design can also greatly affect tone. 2x12" cabinets often accentuate the 100-200Hz region, which will make any guitar amp combination sound thicker or boomier depending on the source (and chord choice). 4X12" cabinets (obviously not a popular choice in jazz!) have enclosures that don't allow the low mids to build up so much, and therefore have a tighter low frequency response. There's a lot of difference in the designs though. A 4x12" Marshall 1960A sounds boomy/boxy whereas a 4x12" Mesa Rectfier sounds tight and controlled. Side by side, the Mesa dwarfs the Marshall. Size matters!
Someone needs to design an amp that utilises multiband compression to dynamically EQ as you're playing! Then you could have fat sounding treble strings without the overly resonant bass strings!
That's my take anyway.....
Rob
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With the proper eq tools you can achieve the desired balance between boomy / sparkle and fat / ice pick. Not easy but it's achievable
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Absolutely! Multiband or broad band compression are also very useful as it only pulls the frequencies down when they reach the set threshold, rather than being attenuated all the time with an EQ. Very good for bass guitar too actually.....
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I was never able to achieve the same result with a compressor and I tried... Shelving bass and treble and two-band parametric mids into a flat frequency amp has made me achieve the desired results. If pedals were cheaper I would try another compressors.
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I do not like any compresors with jazz box...:-(
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Originally Posted by silentcityrob
I have the same take as Jorge and I address these issues with the Zoom G3. You get six "effects" per patch, arranged in any order you like. Two different equalizer effects are available, a six band graphic EQ and a two band parametric EQ. The parametric EQ allows you to pick the center of each band, the Q of each band (how broad or narrow the band is), and the amount of gain from -12 to 12 dB. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
With the proper eq tools you can achieve the desired balance between boomy / sparkle and fat / ice pick. Not easy but it's achievable
I use four instances of the parametric EQ - eight bands with different centers, Qs, and levels - to 1) mildly boost the low bass, 2) as a notch filter to attenuate a strong, boomy resonance specific to this guitar and centered at about 175 Hz, 3) to mildly boost the mids between about 300 - 900 Hz, and 4) to steeply cut the high mids and highs. I actually use 7 bands for all this, so I currently use the eighth band to cut at 63Hz. Anyway, I am so happy with this result, that I have not yet seriously fooled with the graphic EQ
Finally, after the EQ I use a Blackface Twin model, which includes your choice of a cab model - this is the fifth effect - followed by a drop of the "Hi-Res Reverb" as the sixth and last effect.
BTW, I do not like compressors for jazz either.
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That's all that counts really! I'm merely offering my own perspective. Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon
Musicians, specifically classical and jazz always get worried when you start talking about the need for compression, when really it's a fantastic musical tool. Much of the time, compression is used to enhance a sound, not dynamic control - that's what automation is for!
Parallel compression should be viewed more as a "dynamic EQ" rather than the broad band compression you're thinking of. If you set a compression band to cover 100-200Hz for example, then only resonant notes would be controlled, and the dynamics of the performance would be preserved. Pick "thump" is usually under 180Hz, but at a very low amplitude. Therefore picking notes on the B and top E strings wouldn't activate the compression band, keeping the notes nice and fat sounding. If you like to roll off some of the high end in your tone (as I do), picking notes on the low E string from about A to E would normally be a little too resonant. The compressor would kick in to suppress these fundamental frequency notes, but all harmonics and other notes outside of the compression band would be let 100% dynamic. So you're only EQ'ing when it's relevant if you see my point.
This is something I do regularly in the studio, but sometimes I wish I had an amp that could do this, as I'm more satisfied with my recorded and processed tone, than I am my real life one!
Rob
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Compression in the studio is completly different problem/or not/. Originally Posted by silentcityrob
That's all that counts really! I'm merely offering my own perspective.
Musicians, specifically classical and jazz always get worried when you start talking about the need for compression, when really it's a fantastic musical tool. Much of the time, compression is used to enhance a sound, not dynamic control - that's what automation is for!
Parallel compression should be viewed more as a "dynamic EQ" rather than the broad band compression you're thinking of. If you set a compression band to cover 100-200Hz for example, then only resonant notes would be controlled, and the dynamics of the performance would be preserved. Pick "thump" is usually under 180Hz, but at a very low amplitude. Therefore picking notes on the B and top E strings wouldn't activate the compression band, keeping the notes nice and fat sounding. If you like to roll off some of the high end in your tone (as I do), picking notes on the low E string from about A to E would normally be a little too resonant. The compressor would kick in to suppress these fundamental frequency notes, but all harmonics and other notes outside of the compression band would be let 100% dynamic. So you're only EQ'ing when it's relevant if you see my point.
This is something I do regularly in the studio, but sometimes I wish I had an amp that could do this, as I'm more satisfied with my recorded and processed tone, than I am my real life one!
Rob
I think it is use in every pop,rock etc. recording.
I do not like to use compresor with my expesive jazz guitar. BTW it work great with solid-body rock guitar for completly different music...:-)
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I understand what you're saying but I never found a compressor pedal with such options... EQ pedals have caught up with studio tools but not compressor pedals. All the ones I tried did were basically good for sustain lead rock tones but not for clean jazz tones... they were not able to be subtle / keep dynamics instead / act only on specific bands. Originally Posted by silentcityrob
That's all that counts really! I'm merely offering my own perspective.
Musicians, specifically classical and jazz always get worried when you start talking about the need for compression, when really it's a fantastic musical tool. Much of the time, compression is used to enhance a sound, not dynamic control - that's what automation is for!
Parallel compression should be viewed more as a "dynamic EQ" rather than the broad band compression you're thinking of. If you set a compression band to cover 100-200Hz for example, then only resonant notes would be controlled, and the dynamics of the performance would be preserved. Pick "thump" is usually under 180Hz, but at a very low amplitude. Therefore picking notes on the B and top E strings wouldn't activate the compression band, keeping the notes nice and fat sounding. If you like to roll off some of the high end in your tone (as I do), picking notes on the low E string from about A to E would normally be a little too resonant. The compressor would kick in to suppress these fundamental frequency notes, but all harmonics and other notes outside of the compression band would be let 100% dynamic. So you're only EQ'ing when it's relevant if you see my point.
This is something I do regularly in the studio, but sometimes I wish I had an amp that could do this, as I'm more satisfied with my recorded and processed tone, than I am my real life one!
Rob
This new one actually seems pretty interesting
Earthquaker Devices Debuts Disaster Transport SR and Warden Optical Compressor - Premier Guitar
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Agreed, guitar pedal compressors are just sustain boxes, and not particularly tweakable. Although I belive Empress effects do a fairly decent "looking" one - not heard it and it's still not multiband, so none of those pedals do what I'm on about.
If money was no object, I'd build a live rig with this.....
*drool*
Although sorting out the impedance mismatch would be annoying.
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Keeo dreaming... one day they'll make a pedal out of that
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I agree, and I use it in connection with overdrive. I would never rule out its use with a jazz box either; it's just that I have tried several compressors and never liked the result. Admittedly though, I have only tried pedal compressors. Originally Posted by silentcityrob
Me either. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I have the Empress Compressor and the ParaEQ. The compressor is nice, but still doesn't do it for me. OTOH, the ParaEQ is a fine EQ IMO. It offers low, mid, and high bands - each with +/- 12 dB, a dialable center, and choice of narrow, mid, or wide Q (7.4, 2.9, and 1.2). There is also a clean boost if you need make-up. However the Zoom G3 gives me more bang for the buck and more bang per ounce of kit. Originally Posted by silentcityrob
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I have a Roland Cube 60 that sounds good for both. I pretty much just use the clean channel though...
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Princeton RI is my amp for everything, and it covers everything. I've put in a Red Fang 10 which has definitely made it louder (more in line with a Deluxe), and the tone has shifted only slightly. I figure if the band is too loud for a Princeton, it's not the band for me :shrug: Remember, all that low end belongs to the bass player anyway, so you don't need it
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My formula - Tube amp, 35 to 40 watts, properly biased, higher headroom speakers ( Celestion Lead 80, Webers in same wattage range, Eminence, etc... choose from different colors) and pedals - EQ to compensate for different tone stacks, 3 or 4 different overdrive pedals of your choice, stackable for varying amounts of gain, tone and boost. And, if you are not particularly disabled by back pain, wheelchair bound or female, you might be able to lift a 50 to 60 pound amp on a regular basis without hurting yourself by exercising more - P90X by Tony Horton is a great overall program, and the new Foundation Exercise series by Dr. Goodman is a safe way to effectively strengthen your back. No offense to those who are unable to lift safely or are disabled, but many of us here are not. Developing strength to be able to do what we enjoy in life safely can free up some options, including having access to tube tone.
Personally, I don't think solid state amps work well for rock/blues/fusion, for the most part... close with the right pedals and speaker cab, but not really there, to my ears. If the tone isn't working for me, I stop concentrating on my playing and get distracted by knob fiddling and swearing under my breath.
Lots of choices for custom built 40 watt combos - Allen and Vintage Sound are 2 that I know and like very much, but there are lots I haven't played. A separate cab and head setup adds to versatility and makes it a bit easier on your back.Last edited by yebdox; 03-16-2013 at 11:33 AM. Reason: refined my advice on lifting.
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