Best Amplification for arch tops with floating pickups

[jorgemg1984]

Perhaps you are right, but your analysis doesn't correspond with my experience. I have a fairly good collection of guitars ranging from fully carved guitars with floater and fully carved guitars with built-in pickups to laminate guitars with built-in pickups, it seems to me that one of the most significant differences between them is how the pickup in installed in a guitar rather than the brand being used.

One of my guitars is a solid carved Dell Arte gypsy guitar that comes equipped with a piezo in the bridge. It sounds very natural and manages to preserve many of its acoustic properties when amplified, but it doesn't necessarily sound more acoustic than my Heritage Eagles with floating pickups or Hofner New President with floating pickup when played through the Acoustic Image.

I haven't tried to use a piezo pickup with either the Heritage or Hofner guitars, but I suspect that while the sound might be different, it wouldn't necessarily be more acoustic.

From what I have read, the best way to amplify the true acoustic sound of an instrument is to use a microphone; however, this is an impractical option for me. I am satisfied having a beautiful acoustic sound that reasonably approximates the sound of my instrument because I like to hear some stringy-ness in the sound.

By "stringy", I refer to the recorded tones of Johnny Smith, Peter Bernstein, and many of the gypsy players including Bireli Lagrene.

Hi klatu, thanks for the insightful post. In my experience a properly treated signal from a piezo is much more acoustic than a magnetic one and much more feasible to be used with an AI. Piezos with no quack are actually pretty "flat" to me... magnetics have a very strong toneprint, that's actually great for electric guitars but not for acoustics. So to me magnetic means electric guitar which means electric guitar amp not PA amp

[GNAPPI]

My problem with preamps is that they don't provide enough eq possibilities... too many times I have to choose between boomy or thin sounds for example. You can mod them but still... pedals solved the issue for me.

But that's a talk for a new thread

Just because you never heard a pre-amp you liked doesn't mean they don't exist. After all, every tube amp you like has a pre that you like no? It's just that there are few (or none) modeled after them as a separate device.

Here's an idea, if you can read schematics, look at the "tone stack" of a VTM120 Peavey, specifically the preamp . You will see why the pre-amp of a tube amp is called the "Tone stack" in spades. Many preamps are solid state, or "hybrid" and others that are supposedly "all tube" are designed to give a 60's metal sound. Not good for "tone" at all and NOT meant to be.

Oh, the tone stack of a Fender Super twin is also an amazing pre amp.

If you design a preamp to sound flexible you get it.

[jorgemg1984]

Gnappi as long as I am finding this talk very interesting, it's probably better to keep them going in PMs because it's too far from the OP's topic By the way I can't read schematics or build / desgin a preamp... and I didn't say they did not exist, just said I never found one So the fromel and the parametric into a flat frequency amp was my solution.. better than any other preamp I played!

[2bornot2bop]

It's not an easy question, and as many have already stated, tone is a pure matter of personal taste.
With my jazzbox equipped with a very good floater (Bartolini) I had hard time to select the right amp after testing more than a dozen and finally bought the superchamp xd, since I was looking for an affordable and compact model for home pratice. I think Princeton would be a good option too, though a more expensive one, in order to get this classic fat and smooth electric tone.
In my experience, floater and set-in PU don't sound the same, have a look to this video which clearly demonstrate the tone differences here:

!

I finally ended up swaping the floater with a set in HB, and I like my tone much more.
Every specific amp for acoustic guitar I tried didn't sound right to me.
Again, it's my own fexperience, your findings surely won't be the same. My only advice, bring your guitar in shops and try as much amps as possible.

Just an observation on the video example provided.

There's a night and day difference between the two pickups. The set pup on the John Pisano 880 is a handwound Kent Armstrong. The floating pickup on what appears as an Eastman 803 is an stock inexpensive KA that's a typical floater in Eastman archtops which aren't anything really special. A more accurate comparison would have been to use the floating KA 12 pole piece pickup in the 803...obviously an 803 is also a much less expensive archtop than the 880, which may also be contributing to the overall tone in the video...just some obvious points that should be taken into consideration evaluating the two tones in that video.

The KA custom floater in my GE is more expressive than the set KA in that 880...I'm working on posting a sound clip.

[gianluca]

I believe that who wants to really help the OP of this thread and of similar threads, he has to attach some mp3 of the tone he is speaking of.

[Jazz_175]

The KA custom floater in my GE is more expressive than the set KA in that 880...I'm working on posting a sound clip.

Which one is the KA custom floater you are talking about?
Is it the adjustable 12 poles ?

[rpguitar]

pickup through AI Clarus 2R (70% amp, 30% mic).

And here's my Solomon Imperial archtop acoustically, which you should compare to the electric demo. It shows how even though the guitar sounds good plugged in, the pickup and amp cannot reproduce the acoustic sound.

[gianluca]

pickup through AI Clarus 2R (70% amp, 30% mic).

And here's my Solomon Imperial archtop acoustically, which you should compare to the electric demo. It shows how even though the guitar sounds good plugged in, the pickup and amp cannot reproduce the acoustic sound.

great useful job.
(and nice playing as well)

[4mal]

What mic on the Solomon and how far away ?

[rpguitar]

What mic on the Solomon and how far away ?

It's a pair of Beyerdynamic MC930 small diaphragm condensers, probably about 18" away (one pointing at the neck body joint and the other near the bridge).

[peterpanico]

My Monarch has a floater,my PM 100 has a set in Humb as the
CS 336(2),they all sound good on both my guitar amps,I don't see why they should'nt...a floater it's a magnetic pickup justs as a set in humb...they pick the string vibrations,than the body may resonate differently due to the kind of construction,massive or pressed or plywood,and the fact that with a floater there are no holes in it for the pickup and the knobs;
but the pickups get mostly the string vibrations that's it....
what amp is good for an humbucker is equally good for a floater,it's not an
amp matter this one, imho....
Unless you have a micro condenser mic inside the body,that gets the inner resonance,then it would be a different matter,maybe requiring bi-amplification to get the best of it.
If I got the opening "question" right....

[b_goat]

I A/B'd an AER Compact 60 against a Schertler David, and ended up going with the David. It works great for my Moll 7 string, other archtops, and acoustic/electrics as well.

b_goat.

[kris]

Schertler David...I've heard it is great amp.

[4mal]

It's a pair of Beyerdynamic MC930 small diaphragm condensers, probably about 18" away (one pointing at the neck body joint and the other near the bridge).

Nice tone, nice playing too...