Best guitar amp for a Gibson L-5 CES

**gianluca** · 07-29-2012, 05:12 AM

hi
I plug my gibson L-5 CES in a polytone minibrute II or in a fender twin reverb amp which are great amps and I have a nice tone but I'm considering to try something different as an amp maybe a polytone substitution: I believe that the polytone has too much "personality" and whatever guitar you plug in it, you get the same tone, dark and fat.
It seems to me that an L-5 through the minibrute II LOSES some of its woody tone.

maybe I'm wrong or maybe I make bad amp setup but the L-5 seems to loose some nuances.

I made a quick search in this forum but I didn't find a similar thread.
so I'm asking to those of you who play an L-5 if you could suggest me a better amp, maybe an henriksen jazzamp or other.
preferably with some example to hear.

I play mainstream jazz standards and I prefer a tone like wes tone or george benson tone. I use thomastik flat strings (013 or 012) and heavy pick (2 mm or 1,5 mm). no effect.

**jorgemg1984** · 07-29-2012, 07:21 AM

Part of the dark and fat of the Polytones is in the speaker - a more guitaristic speaker can help you a lot on that. I once played in a friend's Polytone with a regular Jensen guitar spekaer and it was not dark at all, much more balanced. You can also try upgrading the opamps to OPA type, it should improve fidelity.

The Henriksen is sort of a Polytone: cubic closed back cab, bass speaker but a little more powerful and reliable with good customer service. The main difference is in the preamp, they have a flat frequency base but the Polytone has a Baxandall tone stack and the Henriksen has a graphic eq which was a great idea in theory but does not work very well imo. And it is also very dark with the stock bass speaker but as in the Polytone, a more guitaristic speaker takes care of it.

I think Wes and George's tone are more fender than polytone. I know George used stereo setups for a long time but I still hear more fender in his sound. Your Twin should be able to put in their "tone area".

**Keira Witherkay** · 07-29-2012, 07:45 AM

yes definitely more fender for the benson tone........ i saw him using 4x10 fender blues devilles, and as jorge said in stereo ,

and as for wes, he apparantly used whatever was on hand , got his tone from his style of thumbing with his unique right hand technique ........ and could get a similar tone thru both tube and solid state amps he played ........

but hey you have an L5 and a fender twin and a polytone ,,,, thats a good place to be.....serious jazz tone in all 3 ......... maybe just twiddle a bit with tones ect and see what happens .......... but most jazz players would be happy to work with what you have .......really nice rig

**Larry M** · 07-29-2012, 08:01 AM

Hi, gianluca.

I play my L5 Wes through a JazzKat with a touch of reverb. I have been very happy with the tone. A lot like Kenny Burrell. I use TI 12 flats.

Sorry I'm not equipped to give you a sound sample.

Larry

**jorgemg1984** · 07-29-2012, 08:02 AM

I meant to say stereo Twin and Polytone - that was Benson's rig for a long time. But I think the Twin was more relevant to the tone than the Poly, I think wanted to add the Poly to have a faster attack.

Reports said Wes hated amps and drove Fender guys nuts with electronics mods. I don't think he was a "plug and play" kind of guy... And he mainly used a Pro Reverb and a Standel although he must have recorded sometimes with the Tweed amp RVG had on his studio. I also remember him using a Twin on an occasion... but I think the Pro Reverb and the Standel were his amps most of the times.

**gianluca** · 08-07-2012, 08:42 AM

many thanks

my usual twin rewerb setup is:
tremolo channel, 1 input, high 1-2, middle 7-8, bass 3-4, reverb 1-2.
when I down the trebles 1E and 2B gets fatter, as I like but I loose the woody tone of other strings. If I increase the trebles 1E and 2B becomes too thinny.
TI flat 012, 1.5mm dunlpo pick, neck pickup.
guitar tone and volume knobs all the way up.
...I still didnt' find the right way for my tone

**NSJ** · 08-07-2012, 08:44 AM

Ironically, I got my Henriksen Convertible many years ago used because the seller said it was not suitable for his "Wesmo" L5 and he was going back to a tube amp.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by gianluca

many thanks

my usual twin rewerb setup is:
tremolo channel, 1 input, high 1-2, middle 7-8, bass 3-4, reverb 1-2.
when I down the trebles 1E and 2B gets fatter, as I like but I loose the woody tone of other strings. If I increase the trebles 1E and 2B becomes too thinny.
TI flat 012, 1.5mm dunlpo pick, neck pickup.
guitar tone and volume knobs all the way up.
...I still didnt' find the right way for my tone

You have several choices there

1) Going the modding route: try different speakers or a different tone stack (Poly or Twn); This is more advisable if you have a tech or friend that can help you with this. It can also be expensive and take a while.

2) Get an eq pedal. Even something like a cheap GE-7 (specially modded, which is also cheap) can help you dealing with some aspects of your sound. Something like shelving / parametric eq is aewsome but it requires a bigger learning curve.

3) You might "need" something different than a Twin / Polytone. Audition other amps if you can.

**gianluca** · 08-07-2012, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

"need"

**gianluca** · 08-07-2012, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

You have several choices there

1) Going the modding route: try different speakers or a different tone stack (Poly or Twn); This is more advisable if you have a tech or friend that can help you with this. It can also be expensive and take a while.

2) Get an eq pedal. Even something like a cheap GE-7 (specially modded, which is also cheap) can help you dealing with some aspects of your sound. Something like shelving / parametric eq is aewsome but it requires a bigger learning curve.

3) You might "need" something different than a Twin / Polytone. Audition other amps if you can.

I was hoping in some magical suggestions about ampli setup kiddling with knobs...

**Patrick2** · 08-07-2012, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by gianluca

many thanks

my usual twin rewerb setup is:
tremolo channel, 1 input, high 1-2, middle 7-8, bass 3-4, reverb 1-2.
when I down the trebles 1E and 2B gets fatter, as I like but I loose the woody tone of other strings. If I increase the trebles 1E and 2B becomes too thinny.
TI flat 012, 1.5mm dunlpo pick, neck pickup.
guitar tone and volume knobs all the way up.
...I still didnt' find the right way for my tone

Where is your volume set on the Twin? You say the volume knob is all the way up??? Are you shattering any windows??? I would try these two things, if you haven't already . . turn the Twin volume up to where you can't have the volume setting on the neck pup of the guitar past 5 without shattering windows. Back off the neck tone knob to about 7 or 8, depending upon how linear the pot is. Increase the treble setting on the Twin to 3-4 . . . roll the middle back to 6 and increase the bass to 5.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by gianluca

I was hoping in some magical suggestions about ampli setup kiddling with knobs...

Yes that's the best solution but it's completely impossible to help you from here... every guitar, pickup, room etc... influences sound and I can't exactly say turn bass up and it will sound magical

I can say close your eyes and make sound with your ears... Don't be afraid of extreme settings like 0 or 10 if it sound good.

I understand the fight between thin and fat but actually in my experience that issue is on the bass knob. Usually the treble quite low on fender amps does not equal less "woody" tone (in my experience)... You can try increasing treble (to get the woody you mention, which means more sparkle to me) and bass (to restore fatness) but you might get a boomy sound. And the two knobs work on quite different frequency ranges...

I was never able to get excellent sounds out of Fender tube amps and archtops without eq's with maybe the exception of some blackface... and even there I would probably use an eq. If I ever get a Fender type head I will for sure mod it to my taste.

Can you specify what kind of sound are you after? Any player specifically?

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Where is your volume set on the Twin? You say the volume knob is all the way up??? Are you shattering any windows??? I would try these two things, if you haven't already . . turn the Twin volume up to where you can't have the volume setting on the neck pup of the guitar past 5 without shattering windows. Back off the neck tone knob to about 7 or 8, depending upon how linear the pot is. Increase the treble setting on the Twin to 3-4 . . . roll the middle back to 6 and increase the bass to 5.

I think the volume all the way up is on the guitar (I hope!)

**Patrick2** · 08-07-2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

I think the volume all the way up is on the guitar (I hope!)

Yeah . . my wording was wrong on that question. I was saying that if his volume is all the way up on the guitar . . an amp as powerful as a Twin must have been set at 1 or 2?? Taking advantage of all that head room in the amp, he might want to back off of the guitar volume and roll up the amp volume. I set my Fender Pro Reverb at 5. It's only a 40W as compared to 100W for the Twin. But, when I run my L5CES or my L5 Wesmo through the Pro . . I set the guitar volume at 4. Great tone and quite comfortable volume . . . . zero feed back.

Claiming you can't get good tone with Gibson L5 CES running through a Fender Twin Reverb . . . is like claiming you can't get an erection sleeping with Carmen Electra.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 02:39 PM

Oh sorry - good advice Patrick. Managing guitar's volume and amp's volume is a good idea indeed...

I know plenty of jazzers who don't like Twins - and some own L5s. I'll ask them about Carmen Electra though

**Patrick2** · 08-07-2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Oh sorry - good advice Patrick. Managing guitar's volume and amp's volume is a good idea indeed...

I know plenty of jazzers who don't like Twins - and some own L5s. I'll ask them about Carmen Electra though

I know quite a few jazz guitarists too. The only complaints I've ever heard related to a Fender Twin is transportability due to it's weight. When I was younger, I used to carry an Ampeg VT22 to gigs every weekend. They're even heavier than a Twin. If I was ever to gig again, I'd never carry a Twin . . . . Evans RE200 is the way to go for jazz gigs . . IMO.

**Klatu** · 08-07-2012, 03:05 PM

My general philosophy regarding amps is the more character my guitar has, the less my amp should have, and vice versa.

Applying this thought to your situation would lead me to recommend an amp with as little character of its own as possible, like the Acoustic Image Clarus. This amp is very neutral in character and really lets the nuances of the guitar shine through.

In my case, I've got a Fender Super Reverb, an Evans, and an Acoustic Image Clarus. I tend to play my hand carved guitars with floating pickups through the Clarus and the others through the Evans or Fender.

**2bornot2bop** · 08-07-2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Keira Witherkay

but hey you have an L5 and a fender twin and a polytone ,,,, thats a good place to be.....serious jazz tone in all 3 ......... maybe just twiddle a bit with tones ect and see what happens .......... but most jazz players would be happy to work with what you have .......really nice rig

A good place to be is an understatement. Many of us would love to be in that place!

I owned a hot Heritage Kenny Burrell tube amp, that was huge, heavy, and too large for my small room. I sold it for a Hendriksen jazz amp 110 that had a speaker swap. Best amp I've owned yet. It will get just about any tone I've desired. Its small size allows for ez placement, and its tone is warm, and huge for such a small amp...even it's too much volume for what I need. I dial it in flat across the board at 9 o'clock. There's a thread on that setup for the Hendriksen somewhere on the forum. I sampled it and it worked for the tone I was after.

So many amps, too many choices. Best of luck with yours.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

I know quite a few jazz guitarists too. The only complaints I've ever heard related to a Fender Twin is transportability due to it's weight. When I was younger, I used to carry an Ampeg VT22 to gigs every weekend. They're even heavier than a Twin. If I was ever to gig again, I'd never carry a Twin . . . . Evans RE200 is the way to go for jazz gigs . . IMO.

People these days don't even complaint about weight - everyone I know who uses Twins is on the road... but I've heard and read many complaint on the Twin with archtops - too much bass / treble and not enough mids. Of course others just love it.

I have refused a Twin when I didn't had eq pedals. These days I would accept it - but I would refuse a JC-120 and bring my own amp (no eq pedal makes this one sound right to me). But with the crisis it's rare to have rental amps on gigs (but when you do it's Twins or JC-120s).

You actually have an excellent amp on specs for jazz - the Pro Reverb. There was a BF one for sale recently here at a decent price (and owned by builder so well cared) but I am so happy with my current amps / eqs I didn't bought it. The Evans seems great but I always found it a little bright on clips and the eq seems confusing (although it's a matter of time of course). And it's too expensive new imo, at that price point I would get another amp in the US. Do you still have the Ampeg? They should be great for jazz...

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop

A good place to be is an understatement. Many of us would love to be in that place!

I owned a hot Heritage Kenny Burrell tube amp, that was huge, heavy, and too large for my small room. I sold it for a Hendriksen jazz amp 110 that had a speaker swap. Best amp I've owned yet. It will get just about any tone I've desired. Its small size allows for ez placement, and its tone is warm, and huge for such a small amp...even it's too much volume for what I need. I dial it in flat across the board at 9 o'clock. There's a thread on that setup for the Hendriksen somewhere on the forum. I sampled it and it worked for the tone I was after.

So many amps, too many choices. Best of luck with yours.

Yes - the Henriksen does like a new speaker. Good to know you're enjoying the "Jimmy Bruno settings"

**Patrick2** · 08-07-2012, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

People these days don't even complaint about weight - everyone I know who uses Twins is on the road... but I've heard and read many complaint on the Twin with archtops - too much bass / treble and not enough mids. Of course others just love it.

I have refused a Twin when I didn't had eq pedals. These days I would accept it - but I would refuse a JC-120 and bring my own amp (no eq pedal makes this one sound right to me). But with the crisis it's rare to have rental amps on gigs (but when you do it's Twins or JC-120s).

You actually have an excellent amp on specs for jazz - the Pro Reverb. There was a BF one for sale recently here at a decent price (and owned by builder so well cared) but I am so happy with my current amps / eqs I didn't bought it. The Evans seems great but I always found it a little bright on clips and the eq seems confusing (although it's a matter of time of course). And it's too expensive new imo, at that price point I would get another amp in the US. Do you still have the Ampeg? They should be great for jazz...

Wow . . now that you mention it, I can't remember what ever happened to the VT22.?.? I gigged with it '76 through '79. I'm sure I sold it or traded it to someone for something . . . because I know it wasn't stolen, or destroyed, or lost. But, I just can't remember what the heck happened to it?

I love the Pro Reverb. Bought it in a garage sale about 8 or 9 years ago for $200 including a seperate custom built 4 X 12 cabinet. Andy Fuchs of Fuchs Audio did a fantastic black face upgrade on it a couple of years ago. GREAT amp!!!

**Little Jay** · 08-07-2012, 05:39 PM

Treble on 1-2 seems very very low for a Twin to me.... I usually have the treble of my Twin on 9-10! (I play a Gibson ES-333 with classic 57s, by it's nature a darker sounding instrument.) I just roll back the tone control of the guitar. Enough wood in my tone! I use Jensen Neo 12-100s though, a somewhat darker speaker. What speakers are in yours?

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 06:25 PM

Man I've had 57s and I still use PAF-style pickups and the NEO-12 on the JMUL.... and cannot imagine running a Twin with treble on 10! You do like a bight tone!

Most Fenders I use treble close to zero (although Fender seem to vary a lot in sound from time to time) Sometimes it's not even enough... One thing I've noticed is the new RI Fenders are quite brighter than older ones.

**jorgemg1984** · 08-07-2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Wow . . now that you mention it, I can't remember what ever happened to the VT22.?.? I gigged with it '76 through '79. I'm sure I sold it or traded it to someone for something . . . because I know it wasn't stolen, or destroyed, or lost. But, I just can't remember what the heck happened to it?

I love the Pro Reverb. Bought it in a garage sale about 8 or 9 years ago for $200 including a seperate custom built 4 X 12 cabinet. Andy Fuchs of Fuchs Audio did a fantastic black face upgrade on it a couple of years ago. GREAT amp!!!

Well if you find it in your basement you can send it to me

200$ for a Pro Reverb (with a 4x12) ?! And the option to have Fuchs mod it?! The US is great for gear bargains!

**gianluca** · 08-08-2012, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Patrick2

Where is your volume set on the Twin? You say the volume knob is all the way up??? Are you shattering any windows??? I would try these two things, if you haven't already . . turn the Twin volume up to where you can't have the volume setting on the neck pup of the guitar past 5 without shattering windows. Back off the neck tone knob to about 7 or 8, depending upon how linear the pot is. Increase the treble setting on the Twin to 3-4 . . . roll the middle back to 6 and increase the bass to 5.

that sounds a good advice for an attempt I have never made: I'm subject to some convinction according to which guitar knobs "must" always be all the way up.
I'll try to low it.

I often play outside and the amp volume is set to 4-5. at home I use the "2" input on the vibrato channel and the amp volume is at 2-3.