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I'm in love with benson's tone on 1972's "the shadow of your smile" found on youtube.
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Of course I'm aware of his touch, that he plays a d'angelico or similar on that recording, and that there must have been some post-production adjustement for that tone, but I should be very glad to play with a similar tone...Last edited by gianluca; 08-08-2012 at 05:12 AM.
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08-08-2012 04:36 AM
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I bougth this used 1990's twin reverb amp one year ago. It has jensen speakers on it. Originally Posted by Little Jay
I had a gibson es 175 before (I trade it for my actual L5) and I believe it worked better than the L5 through the twin reverb.
even if the 175 doesn't have a great woody tone at all and I love the L5.Last edited by gianluca; 08-08-2012 at 05:13 AM.
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Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Man I've had 57s and I still use PAF-style pickups and the NEO-12 on the JMUL.... and cannot imagine running a Twin with treble on 10! You do like a bight tone!
Most Fenders I use treble close to zero (although Fender seem to vary a lot in sound from time to time) Sometimes it's not even enough... One thing I've noticed is the new RI Fenders are quite brighter than older ones.
My Twin started out as a 70ies Guyatone Silverface copy, but now it's strange mix of components. It's been converted to AB763 (Blackface) specs with a mix of carbon composite, carbon film and metal film resistors in specific places (trial and error by me to see what sounds best in which place).
My tone is not at all that bright! Actually, in my experience the older Twins are a lot less bright than the newer ones. (Also depends a lot on the speakers used). Using the tone control in my guitar and only the neck pu is the key factor.
Oh and my Twin uses higher value step down resistors (10k and 4.7k), SF values actually, to keep the pre-amp voltage a little lower, which gives a 'browner' sound. It also still uses the old Japanese Output Transformer that might sound a bit darker than the Schumachers Fender used.
To me a Twin pretty much is the ideal jazz amp....
(Sorry for all the freakish technical mambo jambo, but I just finished customizing my Twin and I'm still pretty full of it....!
)
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In theory the input for you guitar is 1... try it on 1 and back up on the guitar volume (and amp's) if needed. Originally Posted by gianluca
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Benson has a bright tone and a tight bass... You'll need to increase treble and eventually decrease bass. I always thought most of his tone comes from his way of picking / bluesy fast lines approach (but I am not a Benson expert). Plenty of people tried to get that sound with bad results... but increasing treble is a good start I think. Or maybe the Grant Green approach - bass and treble on zero and mids on 10? Originally Posted by gianluca
I know he used a lot of guitars before his signature Ibanez but I am not sure which one he is using here... Maybe someone knows here on the forum. I am not a big fan of his playing but I actually like that take, specially when he avoids those fast full of ghost chromatic notes lines.
I know most people who like to play in the 60s 70s vein avoid pedals and think they are sort of "cheating" but an eq pedal would still be the fastest / cheapest / easiest solution to your problem... Although upgrading those Jensens would probably help a lot to, in my experience speaker are usually weak on Fenders (even vintage ones).
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So a twin is an ideal jazz amp but you have 1) a different transformer 2) several different components and voltages 3) different speakers from the usual Fender speakers... Ironic no? Originally Posted by Little Jay
My Twin started out as a 70ies Guyatone Silverface copy, but now it's strange mix of components. It's been converted to AB763 (Blackface) specs with a mix of carbon composite, carbon film and metal film resistors in specific places (trial and error by me to see what sounds best in which place).
My tone is not at all that bright! Actually, in my experience the older Twins are a lot less bright than the newer ones. (Also depends a lot on the speakers used). Using the tone control in my guitar and only the neck pu is the key factor.
Oh and my Twin uses higher value step down resistors (10k and 4.7k), SF values actually, to keep the pre-amp voltage a little lower, which gives a 'browner' sound. It also still uses the old Japanese Output Transformer that might sound a bit darker than the Schumachers Fender used.
To me a Twin pretty much is the ideal jazz amp....
(Sorry for all the freakish technical mambo jambo, but I just finished customizing my Twin and I'm still pretty full of it....! )
A Twin is great to me because it's clean until 10, loud as hell and has a big sound - but they don't sound perfect stock usually. I tried Twins from different eras and it's hard to find two that sound the same but I can agree old ones are less bright than new ones - even a mid 90s Twin 100% stock I usually play with is less bright than RI amps...
One day I will do what you're doing but I will probably go with a 1x12 Vibrolux amp - 40w 6l6 with several mods I have in my head. But right now my SS amps are making me happy
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hahaha! Well, you are right of course.... Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
So a twin is an ideal jazz amp but you have 1) a different transformer 2) several different components and voltages 3) different speakers from the usual Fender speakers... Ironic no?
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I was just teasing you! Originally Posted by Little Jay
hahaha! Well, you are right of course.... I am pretty aware of the sensation of finally having an amp sound like one dreams... to me amps are the hardest part on the huge variables that are part of a guitar tone's equation. Congrats!
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Hey Jorge, what are some of your planned mods? I'm curious because I've got the itch to build myself another amp and what you invisioned sounds very close to what I was going to try. I was looking to do an all octal 35-40 watt 6L6 amp with a single channel and reverb (I haven't done an amp with reverb yet) very loosely based on a brownface Super. The tone stack was going to be a Baxandall-James type. I haven't decided on the speakers...single 12", single 15" or two 10"s.
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Yep, you nailed it Jorge. No fuss, no muss. Sure wished I could hear you play out...but of course that'd mean I'd have to make a trip to Portugal. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Yes - the Henriksen does like a new speaker. Good to know you're enjoying the "Jimmy Bruno settings"
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Hi Jason,
My idea would be a 2-channel 1x12.. Here it goes:
1) maximum power possible with two power tubes (6l6gc), I guess something around 60w would be possible as in the Fender Concert; preamp tubes to make it as clean as possible; desgined to be always clean like a twin; volume knob designed to be progressive and not to influence tone like in a DRRI for example (did this mod on my jazzmaster ultralight and it worked amazing);
2) If possible a really light cabinet like italian poplar; the more closed back possible in a tube combo like the Poirt City Pearl combo; speaker probably a Jensen Blackbird Alnico because I never tried an alnico - if I didn't liked it a Jensen Tornado for sure (even better a new Tornado without the 150hz spike)
3) Channel 1 Baxandall with added middle control with detent pot that performs on around 700hz / 800hz; Channel 2 regular TMB tone stack probably a little different from regular blackface; 3-knob reverb (mix, dwell, tone) on both channels; no tremolo.
4) Impedance selector to allow it to be used with several extension cabs; switch between tube and ss rectifier.
I think it's all
Last edited by jorgemg1984; 08-08-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Or maybe I'll play in the US one day Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Actually I don't use those settings on my Henriksen, I shared them because I knew players here would like then, I usually use it flat and use external eq (shelving for bass and treble and two-band parametric for the mids) and have probably the best sound I ever did! And mine is an head that I use with different cabs / speakers from the Henriksen... What speaker is in yours by the way?
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That would be very kewl! Well if it's any consideration the NW is much cleaner than the East coast, and Seattle has a thriving semi-pro jazz community. Ha, now east coasters don't get your dander up for you know we're green and you're, well in the big cities, not as much. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
Or maybe I'll play in the US one day Actually I don't use those settings on my Henriksen, I shared them because I knew players here would like then, I usually use it flat and use external eq (shelving for bass and treble and two-band parametric for the mids) and have probably the best sound I ever did! And mine is an head that I use with different cabs / speakers from the Henriksen... What speaker is in yours by the way?
I acquired this amp used. Being an audiophile one would have thought no way would I part with a Heritage KB tube based amp, but the size and volume overwhelmed my room.
So the story went that the JA's previous owner was dissatisfied with his stock 110 speaker, complained to the factory, and somehow or another it was suggested to swap his stock speaker for the speaker in their BluesAmp which reportedly was to possess less of an edge. Having later sold his amp to me I don't know if the owner in the end was happy or not. But I'm a happy camper for the amp fits in my audio room, where I do my playing, without competing for space in this smallish European style room where much of my life is spent. I've got a bass amp 3 times the size of the JA beneath my keyboard. One never knows when one will get the urge to work on authentic walking bass lines via a Fender jazz bass.
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No offense taken. I'm sure we all realize that it's just typical West Coast jibberish. After all . . . just look at all of the good stuff the NW has contributed to the USA.
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Microsoft, Boeing, Sockeye salmon, which if you didn't know blows Atlantic salmon out of the water, just to name a few. Here we have Dungeoness and King crab, great weather, no humidity compared to the east coast, and the air is fresh and clean. Originally Posted by Patrick2
Even you'd hold Orcas Island up as the standard bearer of beauty for the country if not a top 5 the world over.
But you've got us on Hoagies, that's fer sure.
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So it should be the Ragin Cajun - I always wondered why Henriksen chooses a 75w amp with a 120w amp... but at home it should be absolutely fine and it should sound much better than the Betas. The Herigate should sound great but ss small and loud is very appealing for us jazzers... Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
That would be very kewl! Well if it's any consideration the NW is much cleaner than the East coast, and Seattle has a thriving semi-pro jazz community. Ha, now east coasters don't get your dander up for you know we're green and you're, well in the big cities, not as much.
I acquired this amp used. Being an audiophile one would have thought no way would I part with a Heritage KB tube based amp, but the size and volume overwhelmed my room.
So the story went that the JA's previous owner was dissatisfied with his stock 110 speaker, complained to the factory, and somehow or another it was suggested to swap his stock speaker for the speaker in their BluesAmp which reportedly was to possess less of an edge. Having later sold his amp to me I don't know if the owner in the end was happy or not. But I'm a happy camper for the amp fits in my audio room, where I do my playing, without competing for space in this smallish European style room where much of my life is spent. I've got a bass amp 3 times the size of the JA beneath my keyboard. One never knows when one will get the urge to work on authentic walking bass lines via a Fender jazz bass.
My father actually works in the hi-fi businness for a long long time now - he's always touring the world (including the US) to see products, one of these days I will go with him. And I am spending quite some time in NY next summer because a friend of mine is moving there to work.
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HA! . . . Orcas Island?? Other that tone wood, I don't even want to discuss it. (Ask Bruce, from Orcas Island Tone Wood about me, mention me by name). Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
Microsoft, Boeing, Sockeye salmon, which if you didn't know blows Atlantic salmon out of the water, just to name a few. Here we have Dungeoness and King crab, great weather, no humidity compared to the east coast, and the air is fresh and clean.
Even you'd hold Orcas Island up as the standard bearer of beauty for the country if not a top 5 the world over.
But you've got us on Hoagies, that's fer sure.
Salmon?? Don't even ask me about the time I got smacked and knocked down at Pike's Place trying to catch a fish. It didn't happen . . . and I'll go to my grave denying it!!! Dungeoness crab?? Who the hell wants to ever work that hard to eat?? "Gimme a break man" (Warner Wolf) . . . there's only one New York City!!!
Philadelphia Hoagies?? Hoagies?? No self respecting Italian would EVER call a good sandwitch . . . (NY pronounciation . . . "sang-witch") a G** D** Hoagie.
(But, I would definitely suffer a 6 hour 'plane ride to see Mt Rainier again.)
What about the Metropolitan Grill in Seattle, down on 2nd ave? Is that still there? Almost as good as Peter Luger's. Not quite. . . but, almost.
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That's so kewl brotha. Needless to say your dad's been to the annual Vegas CES show each January. The latest in new products, and the greatest hi-fi showdowns between one room and the next. Talk about a money pit...but like guitars, that's hi-end audio. Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
If I was going to NY I'd somehow arrange to put Patrick's collection on my tour. Doesn't get any better than that...did you see his bathroom? Geez, it was larger than my media room.
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Yep - he usually goes to CES. Also to Los Angeles sometimes but I think that's video related... And also Asia / Europe all the time. He's more focused on the business side of the industry these days but he built tons of preamps and power amps back in the day (for himself, not commercially). He also organizes the equivalent to CES here in Portugal for a long time and I've seen pretty crazy stuff, there are lots of Dumbles in the hi-fi industry
I have not seen Patrick's bathroom... must have missed that (historic?) thread
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O.I. is enroute to god's country. The entire landscape of the Pacific NW changes in that part of Puget Sound. Read below. Originally Posted by Patrick2
HA, catching salmon at Pike Place market is a tourist trap. Did you get an autographed postcard of Tom Hank's "sleepless in seattle" shoot there while you were at it? Only a non local doesn't know the secret of gaining access to the tasty flesh of a Dungeness. They're so plentiful we go to Monday night crab feeds and eat them by the dozens...but then of course you're breaking out in hives for a week after. Hey, it's not easy bein' green. Originally Posted by Patrick2
So, that must be a Philly Italian vs. a NY Italian rivalry. Coming from the west coast heading to the east coast for the first time I'd only known them to be called submarine's, or subs for short....talk about getting the look first time I ordered a hoagie...gulp...okay it's a hoagie, that's right. Originally Posted by Patrick2
Mt. Rainier doesn't hold a candle to Whistler in B.C. I'm surprised you didn't make the 3 hour drive up the coast. Now Whistler is God's country for sure. Originally Posted by Patrick2
Locally, the Met' is known as a pickup joint for high dollar call girls. Locals stay away from that joint. Who took you there, and didn't you notice that something wasn't quite right with all the short dressed blondes surrounding the bar?
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I don't even want to talk about how disappointed I am about not getting my ass up to BC. Never been . . . and I know I'll never endure a plane ride that long again. WAY too many hours in airplanes and airports!! I gotta be in McCormicks Place, Chicago in October. I won't fly!! I'll drive and stop in K'zoo on the way. The wife wants to go to Hawaii. I told her, when she can get "Scotty" to beam me there. . . or that lady from Be Witched to wiggle her nose ....I'll go. But . . . I am NOT doing 11 hours air time .. while I'm still alive . . to see ANYTHING!!!! Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
O.I. is enroute to god's country. The entire landscape of the Pacific NW changes in that part of Puget Sound. Read below.
HA, catching salmon at Pike Place market is a tourist trap. Did you get an autographed postcard of Tom Hank's "sleepless in seattle" shoot there while you were at it? Only a non local doesn't know the secret of gaining access to the tasty flesh of a Dungeness. They're so plentiful we go to Monday night crab feeds and eat them by the dozens...but then of course you're breaking out in hives for a week after. Hey, it's not easy bein' green.
So, that must be a Philly Italian vs. a NY Italian rivalry. Coming from the west coast heading to the east coast for the first time I'd only known them to be called submarine's, or subs for short....talk about getting the look first time I ordered a hoagie...gulp...okay it's a hoagie, that's right.
Mt. Rainier doesn't hold a candle to Whistler in B.C. I'm surprised you didn't make the 3 hour drive up the coast. Now Whistler is God's country for sure.
Locally, the Met' is known as a pickup joint for high dollar call girls. Locals stay away from that joint. Who took you there, and didn't you notice that something wasn't quite right with all the short dressed blondes surrounding the bar?
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That says it all. We here and the Mrs. all know that's simply code for you're on the hunt for another geetar. Originally Posted by Patrick2
And you should feel one serious loss for you were only a 3 hour drive from earthly Nirvana...But you dined at the Met among some high class hookers so the trip wasn't a total loss.
Man, see that's the difference right there between being single and on the hunt and being married. I didn't hesitate to fly Aeroflot, about as scaled down as coach flying can get, 12 hours cramped the entire way to mingle with some of the hottest women on the planet. Perhaps you'd be more inclined if you were traveling to an island of hot guitars. Russia and Ukraine were/are without a doubt the cure to any man's midlife crisis. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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[quote=2bornot2bop;246934]O.I. is enroute to god's country. The entire landscape of the Pacific NW changes in that part of Puget Sound. Read below.
HA, catching salmon at Pike Place market is a tourist trap. Did you get an autographed postcard of Tom Hank's "sleepless in seattle" shoot there while you were at it? Only a non local doesn't know the secret of gaining access to the tasty flesh of a Dungeness. They're so plentiful we go to Monday night crab feeds and eat them by the dozens...but then of course you're breaking out in hives for a week after. Hey, it's not easy bein' green.
So, that must be a Philly Italian vs. a NY Italian rivalry. Coming from the west coast heading to the east coast for the first time I'd only known them to be called submarine's, or subs for short....talk about getting the look first time I ordered a hoagie...gulp...okay it's a hoagie, that's right.
Mt. Rainier doesn't hold a candle to Whistler in B.C. I'm surprised you didn't make the 3 hour drive up the coast. Now Whistler is God's country for sure.
Locally, the Met' is known as a pickup joint for high dollar call girls. Locals stay away from that joint. Who took you there, and
OK . . . so explain to me what's not quite right with some working women in short dresses at the bar in ANY joint???didn't you notice that something wasn't quite right with all the short dressed blondes surrounding the bar?
But, in seriousness . . . I've not traveled to Seattle for at least 22 years. No hookers at the Metropolitan Grill last time I was there. Just great Beef, great lobsters and great Salmon. A long unfriendly walk from the Holiday Inn Crown Plaza down the hill to 2nd Ave. But, back then, I felt invincible. Almost daring someone to f*** with me. Younger and stupider back then, I guess. I do remember way too many homeless people there.
Also, I never said I didn't know how to eat a Dungeness . . . just way too much trouble. Four Seasons .. . order a 4 lb bug . . . they crack it on the wooden seat back of the booth next to yours, peel the great lobster meat out of it . . . dip it in the butter for you . . . . why the hell would I want to wrestle with a big ugly crab????
Also . . . . once again . . . it's not a hoagy .. it's not a sub . . . it's a "san-gwitch" a "san-gwitch". If you go to downtown Jersey City and ask for a hoagy . . . their gonna look at you like your drunk. You go to Brooklyn and ask for a hoagy . . . you're gonna get beat up. You go to either place and ask for a "san-gwitch" . . . . they're gonna look at you and ask. . . "whatta you want on it . . . mootz and prajoot"???? . . . "You want hot peppas???"
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WOW!!!! Jorge, you are one lucky man!
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I used to use Twins but they are so big loud and heavy. The only amp i ever had for the last 15 years is a 63 reissue vibroverb. Like a smaller edition of a Twin. It is 2x10 35watt. I use the normal channel only with some treble and bass rolled off. It has the (crappy) oxford speakers replaced and a new set of tubes once but thats it. I am not saying it is "the best amp ever" or so, as I had very little to compare. But I never found the need for anything else personally. I own three dozen guitars but one amp.
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