A modeling example that I think you guys might find interesting.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

... I don't care if the modeler sounds like <fill in the blank> as long as I can dial in a sound I like. ...

Me too, and I think it's ironic that a generation of guitarists didn't use their Fender amps the way Leo Fender himself envisioned, and now a generation later, many judge modelers based on how well they imitate Fenders (or whatever). Of course there's nothing wrong with liking classic amps, but OTOH, nothing is holy in art either.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

I'm glad people found this interesting. I've been going this direction for about 16 months. There have been some adjustments along the way but I'm very happy with where I've gotten. This rig really works out really well for me in a lot of different ways. I love the live sound I'm getting. My tone is not dependent on volume. My recorded sound has gotten much better and it's easier to get. On top of that, the rig is extremely portable. There is a learning curve but if anyone decides they're really interested in trying this direction, feel free to call or e-mail me and I'd be happy to share my settings and my experiences on getting to this point.

I've been wanting to ask you these questions, and it seems better to ask them publicly because there appears to be a lot of interest in modeling:

• Did you consider the Boss GT-10 (or the newer GT-100)?
• Did you consider any of the Fender Mustangs, including the Fender Floor?
• Why did you settle on the Line 6 and specifically, are there reasons you chose the desktop version of the HD?
• Do you also play blues and rock with the HD and how do you like the sounds?

It has long seemed to me that modeling gear is improving and at some point more and more tube players will tip back to the modeling side. I'm asking you these questions because you seem to have done some homework and gotten some fine results.

[barrymclark]

That is great! I loved it!

That might be the best I have ever heard a Line6 POD sound! I have owned every generation of POD save for this one. I think I had just given up on them ever being more than just a toy.

Whatcha using for an FRFR?

Maybe you can tell me if such a thing is in there. I am currently using the Cube 80x and it has the Dyna Amp in it. I know that is specific to Boss, but what I like about it is that the gain output is VERY sensitive to the volume knob. If I back off it some, I get a fairly clean tone at a good volume. Is there a sensitive enough amp sim in the POD HD?

[barrymclark]

BTW, BFD was my favorite. Ampeg was a close second. Twin sounded good, but not my thing.

[Jim Soloway]

I've been wanting to ask you these questions, and it seems better to ask them publicly because there appears to be a lot of interest in modeling:

• Did you consider the Boss GT-10 (or the newer GT-100)?
• Did you consider any of the Fender Mustangs, including the Fender Floor?
• Why did you settle on the Line 6 and specifically, are there reasons you chose the desktop version of the HD?
• Do you also play blues and rock with the HD and how do you like the sounds?

It has long seemed to me that modeling gear is improving and at some point more and more tube players will tip back to the modeling side. I'm asking you these questions because you seem to have done some homework and gotten some fine results.

I'll answer in the order that you asked but bear with me if I throw in some extra info along the way and some of the answers overlap a bit...

I tried the a couple of the Boss units (I'm not sure which ones) and found them to be a bit confusing. I had the same experience with the Zoom G3.

I did not try the Fender Mustangs. I definitely wanted a stand alone modeler that I could run with an FRFR cab and the Mustang floor unit hadn't even been announced when i began going in this direction. In fact, I don't believe it began shipping until a few weeks ago.

I settled on Line 6 at least in part by default. I had originally bought an M9, their mid-sized floor-board effects unit, to use with a small tube amp that had no reverb or tremolo. I was thrilled with the effects I was getting with the M9 and I was told that the effects in the Pod HD series were the same.

At that point the Pod HD series was only available in the 300, 400, and 500 models (all three are floor board based units). The desktop unit had not been announced yet. I began with an HD500 but it was very large and when I needed to travel with it I found out that it would not fit in the ubiquitous black roll on suit case. So I sold the 500 and replaced it with the 300 which is quite a bit smaller. It was right about that time that they announced the desk top unit. I really don't need a floor board. I only use 1 patch 99% of the time and the idea of having a model that I could drop in a gig bag was really compelling to me so I made the switch. It does make a very convenient rig.

I don't play any blues or rock and haven't in many years. What you hear of my playing around here is pretty much what I do these days. on the other hand, almost every I know who has one is using them for blues or rock so there's no shortage of examples.

I would also add that I have also owned both an 11 Rack and an Axe Fx (the original version). I got both in trades and in both cases I found them confusing to program and sold them fairly quickly. The 11 Rack uses Pro Tools as the system software and the early version of the AxeFx could only be programmed through the hardware interface. In both cases, the hardware is almost certainly superior to the Pod HD series (although perhaps not by as much as their proponents claim) but at least to me, the software interface makes the Pod so easy to program basic patches that I found it easier to get sounds that made me happy.

[Jim Soloway]

That is great! I loved it!

That might be the best I have ever heard a Line6 POD sound! I have owned every generation of POD save for this one. I think I had just given up on them ever being more than just a toy.

Whatcha using for an FRFR?

Maybe you can tell me if such a thing is in there. I am currently using the Cube 80x and it has the Dyna Amp in it. I know that is specific to Boss, but what I like about it is that the gain output is VERY sensitive to the volume knob. If I back off it some, I get a fairly clean tone at a good volume. Is there a sensitive enough amp sim in the POD HD?

I have an RCF 310A. My first FRFR cab was a QSC K8 (good but the fan drove me nuts). My second was an FBT 8ma (no fan but struggled with the low end). The RCF is very accurate. It needs some EQ programming to work really well but for the first time since I began my patches through the cab sound almost identical to my recordings.

As for the volume sensitivity, there are several compressors in the system that can get you into the type sort of touch response that the Dyna gives you.

[barrymclark]

I have an RCF 310A. My first FRFR cab was a QSC K8 (good but the fan drove me nuts). My second was an FBT 8ma (no fan but struggled with the low end). The RCF is very accurate. It needs some EQ programming to work really well but for the first time since I began my patches through the cab sound almost identical to my recordings.

As for the volume sensitivity, there are several compressors in the system that can get you into the type sort of touch response that the Dyna gives you.

Interesting. I will admit, I am not really well read on how a compressor can be manipulated beyond the basic intent of compression.

That tone is just seriously wonderful.

I just may have to give this a shot. Mind if I share your recording on other pages?

Ever tried the Tech 21 Power Engine? Those are supposed to VERY nice for guitar models.

[Jim Soloway]

Interesting. I will admit, I am not really well read on how a compressor can be manipulated beyond the basic intent of compression.

That tone is just seriously wonderful.

I just may have to give this a shot. Mind if I share your recording on other pages?

Feel free. I should also add that all of my recordings and videos done over the last year (and there are a LOT of them) were all done with a Pod. The earlier recordings from that period were done into a pre-amp/interface and the more recent records were all done with USB direct into the computer from the POD with no pre-amp. You're wlecome to post any of them.

[barrymclark]

Feel free. I should also add that all of my recordings and videos done over the last year (and there are a LOT of them) were all done with a Pod. The earlier recordings from that period were done into a pre-amp/interface and the more recent records were all done with USB direct into the computer from the POD with no pre-amp. You're wlecome to post any of them.

ever try the Tech 21 Power Engine?

[HighSpeedSpoon]

I tried the a couple of the Boss units (I'm not sure which ones) and found them to be a bit confusing. I had the same experience with the Zoom G3.

I did not try the Fender Mustangs. I definitely wanted a stand alone modeler that I could run with an FRFR cab and the Mustang floor unit hadn't even been announced when i began going in this direction. In fact, I don't believe it began shipping until a few weeks ago.

I settled on Line 6 at least in part by default. I had originally bought an M9, their mid-sized floor-board effects unit, to use with a small tube amp that had no reverb or tremolo. I was thrilled with the effects I was getting with the M9 and I was told that the effects in the Pod HD series were the same.

At that point the Pod HD series was only available in the 300, 400, and 500 models (all three are floor board based units). The desktop unit had not been announced yet. I began with an HD500 but it was very large and when I needed to travel with it I found out that it would not fit in the ubiquitous black roll on suit case. So I sold the 500 and replaced it with the 300 which is quite a bit smaller. It was right about that time that they announced the desk top unit. I really don't need a floor board. I only use 1 patch 99% of the time and the idea of having a model that I could drop in a gig bag was really compelling to me so I made the switch. It does make a very convenient rig.

I don't play any blues or rock and haven't in many years. What you hear of my playing around here is pretty much what I do these days. on the other hand, almost every I know who has one is using them for blues or rock so there's no shortage of examples.

I would also add that I have also owned both an 11 Rack and an Axe Fx (the original version). I got both in trades and in both cases I found them confusing to program and sold them fairly quickly. The 11 Rack uses Pro Tools as the system software and the early version of the AxeFx could only be programmed through the hardware interface. In both cases, the hardware is almost certainly superior to the Pod HD series (although perhaps not by as much as their proponents claim) but at least to me, the software interface makes the Pod so easy to program basic patches that I found it easier to get sounds that made me happy.

Thanks very much Jim. The modeler / FRFR architecture makes sense for many reasons, including the advantages that fep mentioned above, but your response really adds something for me.

Simplicity is an important and often overlooked virtue - one that deserves emphasis IMO - and the light weight of the desktop unit must come in handy: Some of the MFX floor boards weigh as much as a Phil Jones Cub! You seem to have field tested the desktop HD enough to be comfortable with its ruggedness and reliability.

Although it has been a long while since I looked, my recollection is that in other (non-jazz) forums, modelers have been criticized mainly because they are not touch sensitive the way some amps are (tube amps), and because the drive and distortion patches don't sound right and/or don't feel right. That is why I asked about blues and rock. (Personally, being a student, these are the last of my worries at the moment. Most of what I play is either exercises or attempted fragments of jazz. Even portability is sadly not an issue for me right now. But one looks to the future, eh?)

I guess the desktop HD is just the right package for you. It has tremolo and vibrato available, which the SansAmp type preamps do not, and it is a pretty lightweight, simple package. Apparently as a result of this thread, you are still discovering some pleasant surprises with it too - like fooling around more with the Ampeg model. That is as it should be: No good deed goes unrewarded (on a good day at least).

Well, thanks again.

[pingu]

If you're still here fep
do you happen to know what octaver is used by peter at
the end of the duo clip ?

he gets a great guitar doubling bass thing going
I wanna do this sometimes (archtop fat strings)
Maybe the nylon helps a bit too tho

Thats might be the best I've heard and not much delay either



Great stuff

[MikeConner]

The rig I use is a Digitech RP500 into a Yamaha or Peavey PA. Other than the sound results, one feature that was important to me was the USB connection to a PC for programming. Navigating the myriad choices can be very frustrating on the modeling processors using the onboard buttons and menus, so being able to plug into my laptop and click through the choices, copy patches, etc is really handy.

Also, the pedal board mode makes it easy to stomp in/out the chorus, compressor, distortion and other effects.

[markf]

edit

[JazzReggie]

I tried the a couple of the Boss units (I'm not sure which ones) and found them to be a bit confusing. I had the same experience with the Zoom G3.

I was surprised that you found the G3 more confusing than the HD until I read later that you use the software interface. HD Edit is more polished than Edit & Share, so I could easily understand that.

Did you ever compare tweaking on the modelers themselves though? For twiddling knobs on board, the G3 is so much simpler to use than the HD, that I can't imagine anyone preferring the experience on the HD, even accounting for personal preferences.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your clips and thoughts with us! They sound absolutely fantastic, a great example of the advantages of going digital.

Edit: I should mention that my questions about the physical interfaces are merely curiosity about your experience. I can't argue with the results you're getting, and I'm in no way trying to sway you away from the HD.

[Jim Soloway]

I was surprised that you found the G3 more confusing than the HD until I read later that you use the software interface. HD Edit is more polished than Edit & Share, so I could easily understand that.

Did you ever compare tweaking on the modelers themselves though? For twiddling knobs on board, the G3 is so much simpler to use than the HD, that I can't imagine anyone preferring the experience on the HD, even accounting for personal preferences.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your clips and thoughts with us! They sound absolutely fantastic, a great example of the advantages of going digital.

Edit: I should mention that my questions about the physical interfaces are merely curiosity about your experience. I can't argue with the results you're getting, and I'm in no way trying to sway you away from the HD.

The only time I've programmed an HD unit with the hardware interface was when I first tried one at the store and even then, I didn't change much. The way I use it, I do all of the patch editing through the software and then when I'm playing, I use the tone and volume controls just like I would on a physical amplifier.

[Nuff Said]

Got the Pocket Pod in the post, it sounds good through a TC Electronics Amp and Cab, easier to use than a laptop, but to me it doesn't sound as good as the Guitar Rig Pro software by Native instruments.

The POD Pocket is very easy to use and versatile, I'm sure the HD version is even better.

Guitar Rig Pro

Nuff

[JensL]

Jim I always think your posts with the Line 6 sound great! I would like to ask you two things

1) you're clips are always solo guitar. Does it works as well as a regular amp in say a trio setting with double bass and drums?

2) Have you ever tried using a power amp and a regular guitar cabinet with the power sims off on the Line 6 instead of the FRFR cab?

Thanks!

Sorry that I enter the discussion so late (and in the middle...)

Most of the stuff on the Træben YouTube Channel is AxeFx into a QSC powered 10" monitor. The earliest stuff is something else and the beginning is the Axe through a polytone.

Our whole album is recorded direct with the AxeFx

Jens

[Pieter-Jan5000]

Hey all,

I am a beginning jazz guitarist with not that much experience. But I really wanted to share my thoughts on modeling!

My first amp, which I bought about 7 years ago, was a modelling amp. I absolutely love it. The clean tones I can from it are awesome. It's a vox AD60VT. I have also been using the Guitar Rig software since it came on the market, and I really really love that as well! In the previous years I've spent loads of time trying out all kinds of other modeling units. Most of them were very pleasing (a lot sounded like plastic crap though as well!).

The last couple of months I've been looking into conventional amplifiers though! Reasons for this:
- It's hard to create "my own" sound and stand by it on gigs etc. When using modeling, everything is possible. When I hear a tone on a record, I usually have a very good idea how to recreate it. When I'm in the pedal store, I have to think ... which kind of virtual-setup will I use with this? This resulted in me trying to limit myself to 1 amp model, which really defeats the use of modeling.
- When using guitar rig (or something like a POD), which power amp setup do you use? I haven't found a definitive answer. Lightweight is a must! The abscense of this in the guitar amp market has resulted in me never using any of those live on a stage ...

Well ... Just my thoughts.

[kris]

Sorry that I enter the discussion so late (and in the middle...)

Most of the stuff on the Træben YouTube Channel is AxeFx into a QSC powered 10" monitor. The earliest stuff is something else and the beginning is the Axe through a polytone.

Our whole album is recorded direct with the AxeFx

Jens

I think it is good for rock players.

[cosmic gumbo]

For live playing, a transparent, clean full range amplification system is much better than a guitar amp for using a modeler. I've used one through a small 180w pa mixer with 2 small 10" pa cabs. It sounded too good to believe, and the volume available was incredible.

[pingu]

For live playing, a transparent, clean full range amplification system is much better than a guitar amp for using a modeler. I've used one through a small 180w pa mixer with 2 small 10" pa cabs. It sounded too good to believe, and the volume available was incredible.

yeah got me thinking ..............
A decent modeler eg pod or a pre-amp like a sansamp)
into a full-range active 10" PA speaker would be a good way
to go for live too

[kris]

For live playing, a transparent, clean full range amplification system is much better than a guitar amp for using a modeler. I've used one through a small 180w pa mixer with 2 small 10" pa cabs. It sounded too good to believe, and the volume available was incredible.

+1
What power mix are you use?

[jorgemg1984]

Sorry that I enter the discussion so late (and in the middle...)

Most of the stuff on the Træben YouTube Channel is AxeFx into a QSC powered 10" monitor. The earliest stuff is something else and the beginning is the Axe through a polytone.

Our whole album is recorded direct with the AxeFx

Jens

Jens my question was to Jim Soloway and has been already answered... but thanks anyway!

[Jim Soloway]

Hey all,

I am a beginning jazz guitarist with not that much experience. But I really wanted to share my thoughts on modeling!

My first amp, which I bought about 7 years ago, was a modelling amp. I absolutely love it. The clean tones I can from it are awesome. It's a vox AD60VT. I have also been using the Guitar Rig software since it came on the market, and I really really love that as well! In the previous years I've spent loads of time trying out all kinds of other modeling units. Most of them were very pleasing (a lot sounded like plastic crap though as well!).

The last couple of months I've been looking into conventional amplifiers though! Reasons for this:
- It's hard to create "my own" sound and stand by it on gigs etc. When using modeling, everything is possible. When I hear a tone on a record, I usually have a very good idea how to recreate it. When I'm in the pedal store, I have to think ... which kind of virtual-setup will I use with this? This resulted in me trying to limit myself to 1 amp model, which really defeats the use of modeling.
- When using guitar rig (or something like a POD), which power amp setup do you use? I haven't found a definitive answer. Lightweight is a must! The abscense of this in the guitar amp market has resulted in me never using any of those live on a stage ...

Well ... Just my thoughts.

I use one patch about 99% of the time. I don't think that's a problem at all. I'm able to get closer to the sound I'm after with that one patch than I have with any amplifier. I don't care if I'm getting the maximum potential from the modeler. I only care that it's doing the job that I need and it's certainly doing that.

As for the power/cab setup, I've tried a few things and I'm definitely happiest
so far with a powered flat response, full range cabinet. I'm currently using an RCF 310-A. I had to get the EQ dialed in but ever since I did I've been thrilled. It weighs about 26 lbs. so the whole rig is very portable.

[MikeConner]

For live playing, a transparent, clean full range amplification system is much better than a guitar amp for using a modeler. I've used one through a small 180w pa mixer with 2 small 10" pa cabs. It sounded too good to believe, and the volume available was incredible.

Well said! I have the same approach (150W Peavey PA head with 3-way PA speakers). Having speakers split apart gives a nice spread of sound and can minimize feedback - often I can have the PA head on an amp stand nice and close with the speakers some distance away. Also works great with standard acoustic guitars, mandolins, etc (using the PA as a PA for instruments). Often also use a direct out to the main PA.

=> Should have mentioned before - Thanks to Jim Soloway for taking us in the modeling direction. the samples he linked sound great and highlight the possiblities of this "non-standard" rig. //mike