A modeling example that I think you guys might find interesting.

[Jim Soloway]

Some of you know that I've stopped using amplifiers ad I now use a modeling rig for everything. I'm really happy with this setup, both for the sound in the room and the ease of recording. It also gives me a variety of amps that I can call up on demand. I had a little dead time this morning, so I did what I thought might be an interesting experiment.

It's a single passage that I recorded three times through three different amp patches. The first is a model of a Black Face Deluxe (my usual patch), the second is an Ampeg Flip Top running through a single 12" speaker, the third is a Black Face Twin. All three have the same effects (a bit of reverb and tremolo). They were all played on the same guitar with the settings unchanged throughout. I kept the attack as close to consistent as I'm able so the changes in tone that you hear are almost entirely the result of simply changing the patch on the modeler.

[mr. beaumont]

What modeler are you using, Jim?

All three are pleasant tones to my ear, but I liked the Ampeg model best.

[Jim Soloway]

What modeler are you using, Jim?

All three are pleasant tones to my ear, but I liked the Ampeg model best.

It's a Line 6 Pod HD, the desktop version of the current technology. I thought a lot of people might like the Ampeg model. I personally prefer the chimier presence of Fender models, but the Flip Top would be perfect for playing a quiet restaurant type gig.

[mtierney]

So what is your rig like for gigs? Guitar->POD interface->laptop->1x12 Cab? How do you find that this compares for portability, loudness, tone, etc?

[mr. beaumont]

Agreed, the Fender models would probably work better in a group--but in a solo setting, I like the warmer bottom end...

I actually don't think the Ampeg lacks anything up top, it's just the increased low mids I'm hearing...at least through my computer speakers...

[Jim Soloway]

So what is your rig like for gigs? Guitar->POD interface->laptop->1x12 Cab? How do you find that this compares for portability, loudness, tone, etc?

The computer is only used for defining the models and for recording. It is not a part of the rig and is not needed for playing live. So the rig is Guitar -> Pod -> a powered FRFR (full range/flat response) cabinet. The Pod is slightly larger than a typical book. The cabinet is 21 x 13 x 12 and weighs 27 lbs. So the portability is outstanding.

I think the tone is better than any actual amp I've ever owned. It sounds full and warm and it sounds the same at any volume level so I don't have to get the amp loud before the sound warms up.

[Jim Soloway]

Agreed, the Fender models would probably work better in a group--but in a solo setting, I like the warmer bottom end...

I actually don't think the Ampeg lacks anything up top, it's just the increased low mids I'm hearing...at least through my computer speakers...

Something very cool about the Ampeg ... It wasn't part of the rig when I bought it. It was added as part of a recent software update along with a bunch of additional programming capabilities. There was no charge for the upgrade, so it was like getting a new amp for free.

[Nuff Said]

Jim,

You have a very good clean sound, I might try a pod myself.

After listening, its close, but I also prefer the Ampeg Flip Top sound.

Interestingly, I own a Fender Deluxe Reverb.

Nuff

[mongrel]

I guess I'm an oddball because I liked the Black Faced Twin the best with the Flip-Top a close second. Maybe if the Ampeg was into a 15" it would have come out on top. Which one of your guitars with which pickups did you play to make the recordings?

[Jim Soloway]

I guess I'm an oddball because I liked the Black Faced Twin the best with the Flip-Top a close second. Maybe if the Ampeg was into a 15" it would have come out on top. Which one of your guitars with which pickups did you play to make the recordings?

The default speaker for the Ampeg model is the matching 15". Someone else might find it useful but I found that it was so dark and woofy with that setting that I couldn't use it at all.

The guitar is a hollow body with the original body shape, a mahogany top, a maple fingerboard and a 27" scale length that I keep permanently tuned down a full step. The pickup is a custom version of the Lollar El Rayo. I've had this guitar for about 2 months now and it's become my favorite instrument when I'm just sitting around playing guitar.

[mongrel]

The default speaker for the Ampeg model is the matching 15". Someone else might find it useful but I found that it was so dark and woofy with that setting that I couldn't use it at all.

The guitar is a hollow body with the original body shape, a mahogany top, a maple fingerboard and a 27" scale length that I keep permanently tuned down a full step. The pickup is a custom version of the Lollar El Rayo. I've had this guitar for about 2 months now and it's become my favorite instrument when I'm just sitting around playing guitar.

The instrument, your playing and the recordings all sound wonderful to me.

[SamBooka]

I appreciate the consitency of ther performance. My big beef with 99% of Youtube demos are they are a) over process b) dont actually ab anything and c) use horrible camcorder mics. Thanks Jim

I prefered the Ampeg personally , found the Twin too scooped for my tastes (ditto for the deluxe but not quite so scooped).

I have a pocket pod that works very well for me for practice but I think you gave me to bug to tweak it a little more..

[jorgemg1984]

Jim I always think your posts with the Line 6 sound great! I would like to ask you two things

1) you're clips are always solo guitar. Does it works as well as a regular amp in say a trio setting with double bass and drums?

2) Have you ever tried using a power amp and a regular guitar cabinet with the power sims off on the Line 6 instead of the FRFR cab?

Thanks!

[Jim Soloway]

Jim I always think your posts with the Line 6 sound great! I would like to ask you two things

1) you're clips are always solo guitar. Does it works as well as a regular amp in say a trio setting with double bass and drums?

2) Have you ever tried using a power amp and a regular guitar cabinet with the power sims off on the Line 6 instead of the FRFR cab?

Thanks!

I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work just as well in a combo. You might change the EQ's a bit but really, it's best to think f this as a very versatile amp with a flat response curve.

As for the power amp with a regular guitar cab, the answer is yes and after a month of A/B'ing it with my FRFR rig, I'm going to sell off the power amp and the guitar cab. it's a great cab but with the modeler, it just wasn't close. The FRFR cab was a much better solution with a much bigger, fuller sound in the room.

[jorgemg1984]

Interesting, I thought it would be the opposite. What power amp / guitar cab / speaker were you using?

[fep]

Jim, you don't have to sale me on this. I do the same thing.

[Classicplayer]

I liked the Ampeg model the best of the three. I did not care for the amount of bass in all three though. Is there some way you could dial that back? I listened to all three via my earphones, and the bass seems a bit too much. I went on to listen to Berkley Square that you did. That bass sounds more natural to me, how was that recorded? You have a good feel for this type of playing.......

Classicplayer

[feral guitar]

might sound good in your bedroom but prob won't work on gigs, esp w/ drums:

Community: Studio Tone vs. Live Tone and the Fletcher Munson Curve

I know, I tried it with Pod live xt and two powered Mackies years ago.

[fep]

might sound good in your bedroom but prob won't work on gigs, esp w/ drums:

Community: Studio Tone vs. Live Tone and the Fletcher Munson Curve


I know, I tried it with Pod live xt and two powered Mackies years ago.

The fletcher munson effect is mitigated by eq, right?

What does that have to do with modeling vs. non modeling amplification?

The modelers I work with have much better control of eq than amps. If anything the more advanced eq's of modelers will make them better suited to compensate for fletcher munson.

Plenty of people use modelers in live situations.

This is a bit disturbing, you use science to try to make your point. Someone that doesn't understand modelers or the fletcher munson effect might buy your argument even though the fletcher munson effect is actually something that favors modelers and their advanced eq's.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thanks for that Jim. They all sounded great. Like several others, I preferred the Ampeg model.

[feral guitar]

you know, you are right fep.
after i posted that i realized my argument sucks.
The fact remains that I couldn't get it to sound right on a variety of gigs, tho.
...bedroom was fine, uneven vol/eq on gigs.

I am familiar with Meshuggah using Pod but please post a jazz guitarist that uses modeling for amp (not effects).

[fep]

you know, you are right fep.
after i posted that i realized my argument sucks.
The fact remains that I couldn't get it to sound right on a variety of gigs, tho.
...bedroom was fine, uneven vol/eq on gigs.

I am familiar with Meshuggah using Pod but please post a jazz guitarist that uses modeling for amp (not effects).

I'm not much of a gear head and most of the music I see is local guys in San Diego. There are a few in San Diego including who I think is the most popular jazz guitarist, Peter Sprague. He plays a nylon string and a hollow body jazz guitar thru a modeler and powered small pa speakers.

I found another good one. I wish I could find a good one with his jazz guitar.

Edit: I have to post this one. Just to showcase Sprague. This is the kind of Peter Sprague writing that I really like the most:

[Spook410]

The world is changing. The discussions of 'how do I set my amp' are all going to change as a rainbow of settings become available a mouse click away. Humbuckers and single coils will no longer be relevant. We'll have transducers that translate full range frequencies to the best of their ability to be processed as part of a virtual equipment string. We may even see distinctions between acoustic, solid body, archtop, semi-hollow go away to be replaced by digital signal processing algorithms that will truly give you whatever you want regardless of your physical guitar preference. What sounds right to our ears will evolve as the options multiply.

I already find myself spending more time in Reaper with amp model plug in's than on a real amp. This technology will only become more prevalent. The Luddites may groan and the early adopters cheer, but this is becoming mainstream.

Thanks for the interesting post Mr. Soloway..

[Jim Soloway]

you know, you are right fep.
after i posted that i realized my argument sucks.
The fact remains that I couldn't get it to sound right on a variety of gigs, tho.
...bedroom was fine, uneven vol/eq on gigs.

I am familiar with Meshuggah using Pod but please post a jazz guitarist that uses modeling for amp (not effects).

Just my opinion but I think that says way more about the attitudes of jazz guitar players than it does about the capabilities of modeling gear.

Interesting, I thought it would be the opposite. What power amp / guitar cab / speaker were you using?

The cab was built for me by Jeff Earl at J Design. It's a 1x12 with a Celestion Century Vintage speaker. The amp was a Crate Power Block and I had the modeler going through the effects to bypass the pre-amp.

I liked the Ampeg model the best of the three. I did not care for the amount of bass in all three though. Is there some way you could dial that back? I listened to all three via my earphones, and the bass seems a bit too much. I went on to listen to Berkley Square that you did. That bass sounds more natural to me, how was that recorded? You have a good feel for this type of playing.......

Classicplayer

There are a few differences between this recording and my take on Berkeley Square. First, different guitars. This one has a longer scale length that pumps out a stronger low end. It's also tuned a semi-tone lower. Probably most important though is just the level of effort that went into the production. Berkeley Square, while not a final version is part of my effort to record a solo album. So it got lots of time, love and attention with lots of effort put into getting the sound right. This whole sample was done in about five minutes including the recording, outputting to an MP3 and uploading to Soundcloud. Now that I'm back in my office, I'll see if I can't mix a version that contains the low end a bit.

Thanks for that Jim. They all sounded great. Like several others, I preferred the Ampeg model.

That seems to be the consensus. That model was just added to the unit about three weeks ago, so I don't have a lot of experience with it but given the response, I'll have to try recording a full tune with it in the next day or two. I'm still working on a final version of Berkeley Square, so perhaps it will work for that.

[jorgemg1984]

Thanks for the info Jim, hard mixed-reviews about the power-block but I am positive Jeff's cab and the Celestion are good; so it seems in the end modelers like FRFR more.

There are two things said here about modelers that I find very interesting for jazz players 1) same tone at all volumes (I actually modded my jazzmaster ultralight to achieve and am really happy) 2) total control over EQ

I think number 1) is tough on tube amps but doable on solid state amps and yet not all sound the same at all volumes; number 2) is where I actually feel most amps fail, I constantly need to use an EQ pedal in order to achieve the tone I want and it seems most brands are using tone controls as they used 30 years ago (correct me if I am wrong here)

Also interesting the discussion about how jazzers tend to not care about new technologies like modelers, are we so old-fashioned?