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Jim, thanks so much for this thread.
It seems that more and more I am seeing guys using modelling gear and getting great sounds, not just on youtube, but live as well.
Most recently, was an excellent Steely Dan cover band, where one of the guitarists was using a POD, through one of the horrible Fender SS amps from the 80's... don't remember the exact model... M80?
He nailed it. I admit, I was shocked.
I think it's time I got over my technophobia and learned how to use this stuff.
Thanks, again.
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04-25-2012 09:41 PM
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Just as a side note I have a Fender M80 and it sounds quite nice just plugging an archtop to it. Better than an Henriksen for my taste and I A/B them; with an EV and a new reverb tank was a very good "jazz amp" but it's a nice amp even with the stock speaker / reverb.
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I didnt want to say it.. but you should not have mentioned the modeling part.. I wonder who would have noticed...
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jorgemg1984.
no offence meant. I only ever tried a stock M80. Was not pleased with the sounds I could get out of it.
I was using a Roland Cube60 with an Altec speaker for jazz at the time.
couldn't get the stock M80 even close. Not a fair comparison.
The EV would have made a world of difference.
Cheers, Ron
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LOL. The last jazz guitarist I went to hear is a guy I've known over 25 years, and he's still playing the same head and cab he was playing 25 years ago!
Originally Posted by jorgemg1984
I wonder if jazzers are more dedicated
... or just poorer. 
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Hi Ron, no offense taken here, just wanted to share a different experience! Speakers make a huge difference on this simple solid state amps; I played old cubes and liked them but I can imagine an Altec taking the amp to a whole other level Originally Posted by RonD
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Ha Ha yes pro jazzers have much less money to spend on gear on less endorsements than pro rockers or pro blues players. And a lot of people in jazz just want an archtop and an amp and as soon as they find a combination that works that's it. Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon
LOL. The last jazz guitarist I went to hear is a guy I've known over 25 years, and he's still playing the same head and cab he was playing 25 years ago!
I wonder if jazzers are more dedicated ... or just poorer.
But I bet most jazzers or aspiring jazzers still don't consider modelling a valid choices; I am not saying jazzers they should buy modelers, I am saying they don't even consider it (and because it also seems to me modelers excel at cleans).
I always had an interest on the subject but I have to say: until Jim's clips all Line 6 stuff I heard was decent at most. But they seem to be improving... And I think Jim has had most "jazz amps" and some very good tube amps in the past and yet he chooses the Line 6. ..
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Actually I am selling a lot of gear in the moment, since I thought myself buying a small tube amp. I was always a solid-state guy, but with my delta demon by eminence, I tried some tube-amp's and the sound was going in the right direction.
Now I am in trouble, because I have to check this pod hd and the sound seems to be quit good + I found out that it has a monophonic emulation of the Gr-700, which is quit fancy.
But I need to find out, if it suites me, since I had some experience with former line 6 pod's and it wasn't really that great sounding.
Pro of pod:
many sounds
simple recording
portable
pro of a tube amp (ptp)
one good sound
can last forever and it's possible to repair ( if we think of our enviroment)
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Try using a favorite modeler with the Bose L1 system. Even the Compact blows away most conventional amps.
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Originally Posted by ronjazz
The bose L1 is amazing
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metheny and the l1
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I thought I had already asked this question, but here goes again. Does this mean that the Quilter loaner didn't make the cut?
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It does. It was a good little amp that was able to get impressively loud but I like the sound and feel of my modeling rig better. The modeling rig was also much more versatile (not that i need a lot of versatility) and has much better effects (and I do need some of those). The Quilter obvious has much better portability but the modeling rig does well enough in that regard. Originally Posted by bborzell
After seeing the preference for the Ampeg model in this thread, I did a little more experimenting with it last night and it was really interesting to me how much I could change it by swapping in and out different speaker configurations and even by using different virtual mics on the cabinet. I thought for the next experiment, I would take the Ampeg model an just do a bunch of clips changing those parameters and showing how big a difference that can make. (There are also a set of parameter that control the deeper details of the speakers but I'll leave those for another day). I have a very busy day ahead of me so it may not happen until tomorrow, but I think people may find it enlightening. I certainly did.
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Looking forward to it, Jim. Thank you.
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Pardon my potential ignorance, but isn't the Roland Cube series all modeling amps? Essentially a POD like processing unit with attached amp and speaker all in one box. My amp, the discontinued Fender Cyber Deluxe, is the same as well.
Considering that, Jim's setup has at least the quality of a cube's processor but with all the added flexibility of switching out the speakers at will, and of course the plethora of tonal options POD's have.
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I use a modeler myself. Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter
But I've often wondered, can a modeler be better than the amp it is modeling?
After all it is trying to imitate a sound of an actual amp. It seems logical that the best it could do is be as good (although it's hard to believe they could do a perfect imitation).
On the other hand, they can be dead quite with no rattles or hums or other noises.
And of course the other pros that Hans mentioned.
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I've been in the market for a small amp for practice and jams and the POD and a powered speaker could be the answer. i don't care if the modeler sounds like <fill in the blank> as long as I can dial in a sound I like.
Jim thanks for posting the audio samples.
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If you want arguably and i include that word, the most technilogically advanced and most accurate modeller for amps , look at the kemper system,
but for me , i prefer just finding the amp that marry's well with individual guitars and use that combo when that tone is called for , modelling or lets say good modelling is more aimed at session players or artists who use multiple tones
it always makes me smile when especially in jazz we spend time and money hunting down modern gear to make us sound closer to wes's tone or who ever your fave player is and in most cases if they older players , all one needs is a vintage design/voiced guitar and amp and then worry about improving the playing not the gearLast edited by Keira Witherkay; 04-27-2012 at 03:15 AM.
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Originally Posted by fep
the noise factor is a good point, allthough my cube for instance get's quit noisy, if i turn it half the way up. But some of them -as you mentioned -can be quite quite.
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The Kemper is not a modeler per se, although it seems an amazing tool specially because people can share their saved sounds - so in the end it might be a modeler but you would have to have the model you want or want someone to have it and share it. I have always heard the best modeler is the Axe-FX - I would like to try one. Originally Posted by Keira Witherkay
You're info on Wes is not accurate - Fender was getting crazy about him, it's said he spent thousands of dollars on electronic components tweaking his amp and was never 100% happy with it. Most pros care about gear although music is their main focus.
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Let's see... This thread is not about guitars or amps so I guess that makes modelers gizmos. I wonder what else qualifies as a gizmo? I'll bet there is another thread in that question.
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If you use a monitor with two small powered speakers, you have a nice stereo sound. Which can make the guitar sound a little more full.
And, you have a good backup system. Just have something like a pocket pod as your backup.
A speaker goes down, go mono.
A cable goes down, go mono.
The modeler goes down, replace it with the pocket sized pod.
So all you're carrying as a backup amp is something like a pocket pod. You can be back up and running in 2 minutes, perhaps before the current song even finishes.
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I'm glad people found this interesting. I've been going this direction for about 16 months. There have been some adjustments along the way but I'm very happy with where I've gotten. This rig really works out really well for me in a lot of different ways. I love the live sound I'm getting. My tone is not dependent on volume. My recorded sound has gotten much better and it's easier to get. On top of that, the rig is extremely portable. There is a learning curve but if anyone decides they're really interested in trying this direction, feel free to call or e-mail me and I'd be happy to share my settings and my experiences on getting to this point.
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I keep a guitar plugged into the PC in my bedroom and I play it through the desktop speakers. You wouldn't believe the tone that I get with this setup. I have stompbox, amp, and cabinet models that sound anywhere from gorgeous to painful. They open up in Reaper, which lets me track my ideas on the fly.
I'm still a believer in amps, but sometimes the digital options are more diverse and inspire you in different directions.
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Originally Posted by hans halmackenreuter
I saw him using this system with this tour in Tucson and a year or so before with the trio tour (Christian McBride, Antonio Sanchez).
It sounded great.
A friend picked up one of the Bose systems recently and I still haven't heard it. Time to take one of my archtops over for a demo.
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