Fender George Benson Amp

**Insufferable_Rhythm** · 01-04-2012, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by jorgemg1984

Didn't know this but when you play with the bass and treble on 1 and the mids flat you can really get that Polytone vibe (exactly as you said). I have read some people saying the amp sounds like a blackface amp but to me it does not exactly get that sound - it gets closer to an amp tube feel than any other solid state I have ever played but I never got the bllackface sound from it (maybe I need to try again!).

Fender uses an impedance scaled blackface tone stack in many of their solid-state amplifiers, but they often neglect to account for the source impedance of their hollow-state counterparts -- the tube stage has an output (=source) impedance of approximately 38K (plate resistor in parallel with the tube's anode resistance) while the op-amp's output impedance is basically negligible. The importance of this is that it alters the behaviour of the controls and causes a slight, probably imperceptible, shift in the center frequency. You should be able to get something fairly close to a blackface tone, though.

**mambosun** · 01-04-2012, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Double 07

Hmmmm? I wonder who's out there with some good tone who has some clips on their website or yotube jazzin it up with the SupechampXD? Would like to hear that actually.

Try these ones :

....Thanks again Soopajeanmi for your tasty clips

And few others...

Enjoy !

**jorgemg1984** · 01-04-2012, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Insufferable_Rhythm

Fender uses an impedance scaled blackface tone stack in many of their solid-state amplifiers, but they often neglect to account for the source impedance of their hollow-state counterparts -- the tube stage has an output (=source) impedance of approximately 38K (plate resistor in parallel with the tube's anode resistance) while the op-amp's output impedance is basically negligible. The importance of this is that it alters the behaviour of the controls and causes a slight, probably imperceptible, shift in the center frequency. You should be able to get something fairly close to a blackface tone, though.

Thanks once more for your excellent explanations. One of the shcools I teach at has a blackface vibrolux and a blackface twin - maybe I will do an ! / B one of these days.

Ipdeluxe I wish you all the best, hope you'll be good soon. Didn't you once A / B the jazzmaster ultralight with a blackface Deluxe?

**woyvel** · 01-04-2012, 07:52 AM

Has it been considered that maybe an Ultra Light with a 1x15 in a combo amp, rather than head and cab, would be a good idea? Maybe that's where Fender is going.

**koenibaby** · 01-11-2014, 08:38 AM

I think the Fender GB is like 1/2 twin, in a Deluxe shell. I like the sound of it, but 50W would have been better. I don't think GB himself has anything to do with the design. It's just his name. I've used two smaller amps for bigger gigs without sound system, which I think is better then one big amp. But Ronjazz's tip of using a Bose system might be even better to spread the sound and has more possibilities.

**jads57** · 01-11-2014, 11:43 AM

If you're after a pure clean Jazz type of tone and have the $$. The best I've come across is a Acoustic Image Clarus head into a Buscarino Chameleon cabinet. Light weight, very powerful, great clean flat response, but not cheap! For myself, I need an amp that's loud, light weight, and can cover Jazz, as well as Rock,Pop,etc. So for a tube amp I have a Mesa Boogie Nomad 55 1x12" on wheels (not super light). And most recently a Quilter Aviator 1x12" combo 33lbs, loud and light!

**koenibaby** · 01-11-2014, 04:34 PM

Hello Jads57.
I can believe that Acoustic Image Clarus and Buscarino are good for dry clean jazz, but indeed not versatile.
I had a mesa F50 once. Very good amp for live pop and rock. But too heavy and loud.
I think the Quilter is only in America ? Seems to be good so I've mailed them, but they have never replied.

I compared 3 fender amps today:
a) The hot rod deluxe
b) The George Benson
c) The Deville 212 III

I used a Yamaha SA2200 (ES335). As sound test I played some Wes Montgomery, Matt Marshak, Ronny Jordan, Paul Jackson Jr and some Jazz standards.

a) The deluxe goes too fast in overdrive. => this once is out
b) The GB has very different and special sound. Round, warm, deep, mellow. I love it for something like Ronny Jordan, Norman brown stuff, Jazz standards, smooth jazz... Also nice for blues though. Can go louder clean, enough for smaller places
c) Typical Fender sound. Less round and warm then the GB, but still warm. But I like it more for Matt Marshak, Paul Jackson Jr...etc; Cuts more through the drum & bass. Can go louder then the others and still sound clean.

I would choose the Deville, when it's only used for gigs (not at home) and when you mix jazz, blues and some funky stuff.

If you mostly want that typical super warm juicy jazz tone, and also want to use it at home, then the GB is a better choice. It does sound really very smooth and not boring.

For jazz and blues mix I prefer the Deville 212 and the GB Fender amps above the other Fenders I've tried so far. (original '64 Vibroverb, princeton, blues jr., Deville 410, super reverb, deluxe 112 plus).
They both sound good, not too loud but loud enough and not too heavy.

Bye

**jads57** · 01-11-2014, 05:43 PM

I believe the Fender George Benson amp is a Hot Rod Deluxe w/ a louder/cleaner Jensen speaker and a 12AT7 in V1 position. I'm sure this could be a mod for any Fender amp as well. One could also take a Deluxe Reverb and install 6L6GC tubes and get a fatter sound as well.

**AlsoRan** · 01-11-2014, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by mambosun

Try these ones :

....Thanks again Soopajeanmi for your tasty clips

Enjoy !

I can see in this clip he uses the "Benson Picking" Technique.

**koenibaby** · 01-12-2014, 07:10 AM

I think it's 1/2 Twin because a Twin reverb has 2 Jenson C12K speakers, 4x6L6 power tubes, 4x12AX7 and 2xAT7.
That looks like two George Bensons in one cabinet.

The most important part to change your sound and breakup point is the speaker.

**Gtrdude** · 03-01-2014, 08:27 PM

Hello, I am new around here. I was wondering if anyone has played this amp yet? I am quite intrigued by this amp and the clips on You Tube sound fantastic. It seems like it could be awesome!

**jzucker** · 03-01-2014, 08:31 PM

it sounds great but the construction quality is relatively poor. If you're not gigging a lot or subjecting it to lots of bumps and bruises, it's probably fine but i wouldn't consider it road worthy unless you have an amp tech on your gigs.

**Loobs** · 03-01-2014, 08:53 PM

What are you basing that on? The HRD is one of the most spotted amps on the live circuit, irrespective of genre. I've never heard of one falling apart.

**jzucker** · 03-01-2014, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Loobs

What are you basing that on? The HRD is one of the most spotted amps on the live circuit, irrespective of genre. I've never heard of one falling apart.

Talk to Lord Valve or any number of amp repair gurus and ask them about the construction quality of the HRD and how often they need repairs. I've opened a few up and they use extremely cheap components, the lowest wattage resistors and caps, ribbon cables and anything else they can possibly get away with.

Compare the construction of this to something like a Fuchs, Mesa Mark series, Gries, Two Rock, Glassworks, etc. and you'll see how cheaply these are made.

Granted they are relatively inexpensive but you get what you pay for.

**jzucker** · 03-01-2014, 09:13 PM

i agree they do sound good. The benson version supposedly has more headroom. If you are patient and spend a few hundred bucks more you can get something hand wired though.

**snoskier63** · 03-01-2014, 09:45 PM

I bought the new GB amp a while ago, and it did sound good. However... as I unpacked it I discovered that many of the screws holding the amp together were either very loose, or sitting at the bottom of the cabinet having fallen out completely. I put all of the screws back in, played it for an hour or so, and then returned it as I was not confident that it would be free of problems in the future. Ultimately, I settled on a Carvin Nomad, which is 50 watts, only 40 lbs, has more clean headroom than the GB, is much less expensive, and IMHO sounds better for jazz. Tone is a very subjective thing, so this is just MHO.

**Phil in London** · 03-02-2014, 04:18 AM

I use this amp and it sounds very good. Some minor issues so far, had to find a place for the reverb box to fix it on the cabinet's floor to avoid hum, and the tubes needed silicon rings to reduce rattling. Apart from that - no issues, and a very fine and seducing sound, smooth and responsive. The drive channel is ok, good with 'more drive', but first stage lacks sweetness (which is not a surprise, given the tube config).
There is a slight hum in the clean channel, so I would not use this amp for mic recording. But great for band play and gigs.

**iim7V7IM7** · 03-02-2014, 07:07 AM

Frankly, it looks as if Fender made some tolex/grill cloth changes, swapped out a 12AX7 or a 12AT7 to increase headroom, a Celestion for a Jensen and added about $200 in cost to a Hot Rod Deluxe.

**Phil in London** · 03-02-2014, 07:15 AM

iim - so it seems, as has been said many times before.

Its got the looks though, the pine cab sounds great and so does the speaker (which makes quite a diff)...

here is yd's Saturday bliss...

**iim7V7IM7** · 03-02-2014, 08:35 AM

A sunny day in the UK? What will the travel ministry think?

:-)

Originally Posted by Phil in London

iim - so it seems, as has been said many times before.

Its got the looks though, the pine cab sounds great and so does the speaker (which makes quite a diff)...

here is yd's Saturday bliss...

**GoergeBenson** · 03-02-2014, 10:40 AM

I saw GB playing at the Royal Albert Hall through two Fender Blues Jnr's.

I was pretty sad to see that lol. Those little amps are bloody awful IMO

**Gtrdude** · 03-02-2014, 10:49 AM

Can anyone compare the Fender GB to the new Mesa Express 5:50 plus line?

**jzucker** · 03-02-2014, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by GoergeBenson

I saw GB playing at the Royal Albert Hall through two Fender Blues Jnr's.

I was pretty sad to see that lol. Those little amps are bloody awful IMO

they sound great and I'm sure he travels with an amp tech who retubes it and rebiases it every night.

He sounds great through his setup which utilizes a transistor amd in parallel with the tube amp. That gives you the best of both worlds IMO...