Fender George Benson Amp

[Jazzman301]

I want to believe that he has the amp fed into the house system and is not honestly worried about the amp itself being able to be loud enough to play over the band. I could be wrong.

Even still I can agree that its just as likely to be based on the Twin Reverb platform as anything else. Maybe it will be a slightly modded twin in head form thats geared more for warm tube jazz tones? Kind of what you want right...a twin that you can carry.

'Mike

[Double 07]

I want to believe that he has the amp fed into the house system and is not honestly worried about the amp itself being able to be loud enough to play over the band. I could be wrong.

Even still I can agree that its just as likely to be based on the Twin Reverb platform as anything else. Maybe it will be a slightly modded twin in head form thats geared more for warm tube jazz tones? Kind of what you want right...a twin that you can carry.

'Mike

YES! Wouldn't most of us here like that? Or even a new head model based on the Deluxe tweaked for warm tube jazz tones but with four 6V6. That would be about 45 watts. That would probably cut it too.

[Elias Graves]

The Princeton with this and that option sounds much like what Rivera offers in the Jazz suprema. I think the one they make for Lou over at Guitarsnjazz has a 15" speaker and not a 12" but still in terms of sound thats pretty close to what you are talking about. The issues is the nearly $2,000 price tag.

I think Ibanez is onto something with their Wholetone amp. Its really affordable, fairly light and does the jazz thing well. Downside is its a one trick pony.

I kind of agree that I think it will be Deluxe with special covering, GB signature in some way, maybe an upgraded speaker and an additional knob or two for a $3-400 inrease over a standard DRRI. I don't think Fender cares enough about the limited jazz market to invest a ton of R&D into this venture. I think its just a way to get Benson to sign a contract with them for 5-10 years at most. If you recall he has endorsed many guitars and amps over the years.

'Mike

Don't let the name or intended use fool you.
Remember, two of the three most popular guitars for rock n roll were a country guitar (tele) and a jazz guitar (Les Paul.)
If it's good, it's good and people will buy it.

EG

[Jazzman301]

I tell people to follow your ears. If it sounds good pay no attention to the brand on the headstock, receipt, speaker or package. I love calling Lou over at Guitarsnjazz when I need to make a purchase. I call up and tell lou what kind of money I want to spend, the sound, tone feel I am looking for and Lou offers suggestions that fit the bill. He has never steered me wrong and has even worked to sell me LESS expensive stuff because despite me "thinking" it was what I wanted he knew it was not right for what I was looking for.

I am surprised that no one has custom made twin into a head. Its the tone most agree to be THEE jazz sound but there is always the size issue or the compromise of the size to sound factor. A twin head with a nice 1x15 cab would be perfect for me...maybe a 2x10 or a 1x12 for another cat...But you could take that tone and take it anywhere with ease and without real concern of its size.

'Mike

[Double 07]

Don't let the name or intended use fool you.
Remember, two of the three most popular guitars for rock n roll were a country guitar (tele) and a jazz guitar (Les Paul.)
If it's good, it's good and people will buy it.

EG

True statement.

Anyway it's only fairly recently that Fender has done the "put a famous musicians name on an amp thing" If the EC amps are an example then the GB amp(s) will be built exactly to the specs that George wants like the EC models were for Eric. Maybe Fender will do the same thing and have a Twin output model and lower wattage model or two. Baby brothers . We'll see.

[jorgemg1984]

The watts thing is an interesting discussion. Some people need the power to fill a venue on an unmiced gig or to fill a stage on an unmonitored gig. If you always play with PA / monitors or small venues you might not be able to put the amp loud enough to get to the "sweet spot". So maybe they will release several versions of the amp...

[jorgemg1984]

The Princeton with this and that option sounds much like what Rivera offers in the Jazz suprema. I think the one they make for Lou over at Guitarsnjazz has a 15" speaker and not a 12" but still in terms of sound thats pretty close to what you are talking about. The issues is the nearly $2,000 price tag.

I think Ibanez is onto something with their Wholetone amp. Its really affordable, fairly light and does the jazz thing well. Downside is its a one trick pony.
'Mike

I disagree with both statements The Rivera is an EL34 amp with a 15 speaker which should be quite different from the common blackfaces 6l6 / 6v6 used in jazz which come in 1x12 (Princeton), 1x10 (Princeton), 2x10 (Vibrolux), 2x12 (Twin) or 4x10 (Super) usually.

The Wholetone was OK when I tried it and you have lots of better options in the SS side imo - 80s amps for cheaper or Henriksen / Jazzmaster Ultralight for more expensive. I really hope Fender goes for the Benson blackface side in a small combo / head and not the Polytone Benson side (which they covered so well with the Ultralight)

[jorgemg1984]

If they cared, they would bring back the Ultralight.

I hope they have learned a lot with the mistakes made with this amp... They don't need to sell the amp as a "jazz amp" thing and George Benson name will probably promote the amp a lot outisde the jazz world. I know a lot of peple that want good Fender cleans in a small simpler package than the ones available.

[jorgemg1984]

Oh and I hope they don't go the Custom Shop route - this will mean too expensive and there are already so many boutique options...

[Insufferable_Rhythm]

I really hope Fender goes for the Benson blackface side in a small combo / head and not the Polytone Benson side (which they covered so well with the Ultralight)

I've not played the Jazzmaster Ultralight but the clean channel, as depicted in the schematic anyway, is modelled on the blackface sound. What's shown is an impedance scaled Fender blackface tone stack. That is, the resistances have been made smaller by five (which reduces noise) while the capacitances have been made larger by five to maintain the frequency response. We don't know what goes on in the DSP but I can't imagine they would do anything to significantly alter that basic tone. Setting the treble and bass controls low will bring you closer to the flatter response of a Polytone, but anything else should be fairly classic blackface clean, at least up to the speaker out jack.

Though, as I said, I haven't played the amplifier so you would know better.

[Double 07]

Oh and I hope they don't go the Custom Shop route - this will mean too expensive and there are already so many boutique options...

Yes that would definitely be a big plus 4 sure.

[jorgemg1984]

I've not played the Jazzmaster Ultralight but the clean channel, as depicted in the schematic anyway, is modelled on the blackface sound. What's shown is an impedance scaled Fender blackface tone stack. That is, the resistances have been made smaller by five (which reduces noise) while the capacitances have been made larger by five to maintain the frequency response. We don't know what goes on in the DSP but I can't imagine they would do anything to significantly alter that basic tone. Setting the treble and bass controls low will bring you closer to the flatter response of a Polytone, but anything else should be fairly classic blackface clean, at least up to the speaker out jack.

Though, as I said, I haven't played the amplifier so you would know better.

Didn't know this but when you play with the bass and treble on 1 and the mids flat you can really get that Polytone vibe (exactly as you said). I have read some people saying the amp sounds like a blackface amp but to me it does not exactly get that sound - it gets closer to an amp tube feel than any other solid state I have ever played but I never got the bllackface sound from it (maybe I need to try again!).

[mattymel]

I would hope GB would def NOT sign off on the DSP stuff. Very unGB sounding.

[bborzell]

My guess is that the GB will actually be a newly released and rebadged Mustang III that finally has the "Fizz" removed.

[stevedenver]

well since were all guessing

i think it might be a variation of the cyber twin-solid state-perhaps lighter speakers???-cheaper and higher margin than a tube???

hopefully with all the rattles and other issues mopped up

[Frank67]

Since that thread has taken that direction, please let me ask you:

the majority of people here agree that they would love to have a Fender tube amp that is a bit lighter but has enough clean headroom with desired wattage around 30-40: what about the Fender Deluxe VM (Vintage modified)? Doesn't that amp somewhat fit the bill (40 watts, 12'' Celestion speaker, 18kg, 2 x 12AX7 and 2 x 6L6 tubes)? I have never heard one but i am generally also interested in a nice tube amp that is loud enough to play with a drummer and still stays clean.

(Just for the record: i have a Mustang that in my ears sounds great in the Twin or Princeton or DR or Bassman modes and it absolutely doesn't fizz. Does someone in Europe has one that does fizz?)

[mambosun]

Since that thread has taken that direction, please let me ask you:

the majority of people here agree that they would love to have a Fender tube amp that is a bit lighter but has enough clean headroom with desired wattage around 30-40: what about the Fender Deluxe VM (Vintage modified)? Doesn't that amp somewhat fit the bill (40 watts, 12'' Celestion speaker, 18kg, 2 x 12AX7 and 2 x 6L6 tubes)? I have never heard one but i am generally also interested in a nice tube amp that is loud enough to play with a drummer and still stays clean.

(Just for the record: i have a Mustang that in my ears sounds great in the Twin or Princeton or DR or Bassman modes and it absolutely doesn't fizz. Does someone in Europe has one that does fizz?)

My 2 cents:
I've tried one during an extensive period in a shop.
Clean channel was very good, but channel 2 (FX ) was hissy, even at a very low gain setting. Furthermore, here in France it's not cheap (700€)
At less than half the price I finally bought the Superchamp XD, which share the same clean channel tone.

[Frank67]

My 2 cents:
At less than half the price I finally bought the Superchamp XD, which share the same clean channel tone.

Thanks for that interesting reply!

It is interesting to hear that this amp has a similar tone to the SuperChamp XD in channel 1. I own that amp too and i really like its tone with my archtops. It is just too weak to seriously play with a drummer. I would be somewhat less interested in the second channel of the Deluxe VM anyways.

[ronjazz]

Guitar amps are always going to be a pain in the neck, back and ass, unless you have a crew and a dedicated soundman. A Bose L1 system with a good EQ/processor/tube pre for the front end is lighter and easier to carry, fills large rooms at reasonable volumes, and can double as a sound system for adding a horn player, vocalist, 2nd guitar, etc. For instance, an ART tube pre ($50) and a Digitech RP55 ($60) in front of an L1 will, with some tweaking, give you an unbelievable jazz sound which will then carry throughout a good-sized room without having to have ear-splitting onstage levels. You can also run your nylon or steel-string acoustic-electrics through this system without feedback or midrange honk. My big band gigs with my Bose/Digitech combo are amazingly easy: the band, the audience, and I all hear the same thing, without me blasting out the front rows. I also use one for large concert gigs, taking a line out for the PA, while not needing it in the monitors, since everyone on stage can hear it fine.

Just some food for thought. The L1 Compact is less than $1000, the Model 1 is $1700, with 2 mic inputs and 2 1/4" inputs. Unbeatable value, and no part is heavier than about 34 lbs.

[Double 07]

My 2 cents:
I've tried one during an extensive period in a shop.
Clean channel was very good, but channel 2 (FX ) was hissy, even at a very low gain setting. Furthermore, here in France it's not cheap (700€)
At less than half the price I finally bought the Superchamp XD, which share the same clean channel tone.

Hmmmm? I wonder who's out there with some good tone who has some clips on their website or yotube jazzin it up with the SupechampXD? Would like to hear that actually.

[lpdeluxe]

The majority of people here agree that they would love to have a Fender tube amp that is a bit lighter but has enough clean headroom with desired wattage around 30-40: what about the Fender Deluxe VM (Vintage modified)? Doesn't that amp somewhat fit the bill (40 watts, 12'' Celestion speaker, 18kg, 2 x 12AX7 and 2 x 6L6 tubes)? I have never heard one but i am generally also interested in a nice tube amp that is loud enough to play with a drummer and still stays clean.

Here is my own version of that thinking: a Bandmaster VM head (identical to the Deluxe VM except for the case and speaker output lettering on the back) with a Weber California Ceramic 15 cabinet. It has a sweet top end (an issue with some Fenders), a strong mid, and a round bottom. If it were as light as my Jazzmaster Ultralight it'd be perfect.



I also have a Deluxe Reverb RI but this has a better sound, and is marginally easier to carry. A long-time playing partner tells me the BMVM is my "signature sound."

[Double 07]

Here is my own version of that thinking: a Bandmaster VM head (identical to the Deluxe VM except for the case and speaker output lettering on the back) with a Weber California Ceramic 15 cabinet. It has a sweet top end (an issue with some Fenders), a strong mid, and a round bottom. If it were as light as my Jazzmaster Ultralight it'd be perfect.



I also have a Deluxe Reverb RI but this has a better sound, and is marginally easier to carry. A long-time playing partner tells me the BMVM is my "signature sound."

Sound clips please.

[lpdeluxe]

Sound clips please.

I was afraid someone would ask that! I had surgery four weeks ago, and still have a bit of a ways to go to recover. Eventually....

[Double 07]

I was afraid someone would ask that! I had surgery four weeks ago, and still have a bit of a ways to go to recover. Eventually....

Awww man Well, wishing you a speedy recovery Hope it's as speedy and painless as possible. I was in a bad accident bout 1 year ago so I know it's no fun recovering from injuries. Best to ya!

[lpdeluxe]

Perhaps I'll do some playing Thursday, but it will be on bass, not guitar, and my hostess will have to come get me (and haul my amp and instrument!) for me to make that. But I am on the mend.