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hit or miss unless you're buying a carbon fiber instrument and even that was hit or miss for me. About 10% of the guitars I've bought without trying them first were any good.
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09-09-2011 11:53 AM
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Well, there is an option Jazzpunk. If the OP has the patience to wait, NAMM 2012 is in L. A. in January. He could pay the modest entrance fee and then try all the guitars he wants to.
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
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He ended up with this ES-165: Originally Posted by Patrick2
Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis vs. Eastman 805ce
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Eastmans are really nice guitars. But, I'm very glad to hear that he bought the Gibson ES165. (Made in America) He'll never look back and he'll never regret it. Even in the picture it appears to be a winner. Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
Now . . . he MUST learn to swing his jaw back-n-forth while blowing in order to appropriately emulate the true Herb Ellis persona
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It depends a lot on the overall QC of the brand. Even in a company with extremely consistent specs, the difference is amazing. I worked for Ibanez and throughout their line I came to be very sensitive to the differences in individual guitars. Sure overall they had a very reliable quality within the line, but on occasion there'd be one that just wasn't right; just didn't feel "alive" -possessed by a zombie spirit or something. I couldn't fail it on a that alone so it went out. Sometimes one would be so resonant, so alive and responsive I'd want to buy it myself or put a tag on it "Buy this one! It's better than its costlier cousins!" but I couldn't.
The upside is, only an A/B or someone who had a real seasoned feel for those differences could detect those things for the most part. Still I have a friend who got an Eastman. The neck was just wonky. It felt good with high action, but take it down to what he needed to gig on, and it buzzed and sitar-ed to no end. No amount of fret dressing could save it. He bought another and is happy with it, and that first one is in the shop having the fingerboard re-planed.
End story, short of a custom builder, you cannot know what you're getting, but a good brand with good QC will stack the odds in your favour.
David
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Not all of us live near LA or NY. Some of us even live overseas. Buying unseen, while not a desireable option, may the only option we have if we go for a specific brand and model. Originally Posted by Patrick2
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I agree oldane. "Not all of us live near L.A." But the reply I sent regarding NAMM at L.A. in January was specific to the OP, who DOES live in L.A. and needs a venue to try multiple guitars. Originally Posted by oldane
You, on the other hand, are S.O.L.
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I've only purchased a guitar sight unseen ONCE, but I got extremely lucky, as that guitar turned out to be as "perfect" as I could ask for.
I probably wouldn't do it again, since I can't imagine being that lucky twice.
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I've purchased so many guitars via eBay, dealers and websites overseas I can't tell you how many - but it's a lot. Out of that really large number of deals I only had a couple dogs - but in that group of deals I also had some incredible deals. Like on Sept. 11th 2001, I had a Gibson ES150DCN "watched" on eBay. And I was at work, decided at the last minute to bid, got logged in and bid like $800.01, and won it for $750.00 which I think was the next incremental bid up - a lot of people were watching tv instead of auctions. With a couple hundred in pickups and a new tailpiece it was a real sweetheart guitar.
Back more on topic. Find something online, try finding one relatively like it in a local store and see if the neck and body feel comfortable to your taste, then you'll feel more secure doing a deal online. Of course there are those moments where you find something that's just about to end and "do I, don't I" becomes the mantra of the day. Most of the time I've done real well taking a chance. The few guitars I didn't like I gave to worthy kids in my church, or friends that had let go of something special to keep the bills paid and had no guitar. That was just me being a good guy, sooner or later that comes back to ya.
Take a chance - go for it.
Big
ebony tailpiece by Steven Holst
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If some folks are willing to try mail order brides, why not guitars?
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I have sold off a few guitars im my time. Do you think that selling off my wife is also an option? (not that I bought her sight unseen, though) Originally Posted by max chill
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Well, oldane . . . . I suppose if you offer a 48 hour return policy, you could offer her up for a try out Originally Posted by oldane
I have sold off a few guitars im my time. Do you think that selling off my wife is also an option? (not that I bought her sight unseen, though)
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Well, what I had in mind was the e-Bay way: "No refund, no returns". Originally Posted by Patrick2
Well, oldane . . . . I suppose if you offer a 48 hour return policy, you could offer her up for a try out
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Well . . . I'll have to pass then. I already got one 41 years ago. Same policy. No refund . . . no return. Never even got to try it out before I bought it. Fortunately for me . . . it was a real keeper. (not so sure she's always felt the same way though) Originally Posted by oldane
Well, what I had in mind was the e-Bay way: "No refund, no returns".
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Of course, I was only joking. I have had a great wife for the last 25 years, whom I can thank for more than I can say - not the least that she tolerates my recurring GAS and my practicing (that must take much patience). Originally Posted by Patrick2
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"How much for your women?"
Jake Blues
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"We are on a mission from God." Originally Posted by ESCC
Elwood Blues
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You're puttin' the band back together????? Originally Posted by oldane
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Preacher: "Have you seen the light?" Originally Posted by Patrick2
Jake Blues: "THE BAND!!!!"
Elwood Blues: "The band ....?"
Jake Blues: "THE BAND!!!!"
So - we should go and get new instruments sight seen or unseen. The mission from God will be completed and we will live happily ever after - well, more or less.
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I've only done this once. I dealt with Elderly Instruments and bought a used Taylor 850C. The salesman spent an hour on the phone with me and went over every square inch of it, played it, and all that. I spent $1,600 (it was many years ago, mind) and when it arrived by UPS (well packed) it was even more stunning than the pics showed. Its sound has been described as a "cannon" and one guitarist said that its the kind of guitar that makes you rethink how you view music.
So - choosing a really high integrity vendor and focusing on a premium brand (this was factory built, but an early example with a lot of hand work ) together with a solid return guarantee can make for a good experience. I'm a happy camper.
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I really believe, that with good high res photos, the proper qualifying questions to a competent and ethical dealer, more often than not, you're going to wind up with exactly what is being described to you. Whether or not that particular guitar will provide that . ."this is the one" factor is another issue. That can only be determined after it is in your hands. I'm really not affraid to take that chance . . . as long as I am comfortable that I have recourse. A documented contract of sale which clearly states a 24 hour right of refusal policy. Even then, I only do the deal with AmEx. They will protect me to my utmost satisfaction.
There is another side to this equation that no one ever mentions. MANY of the guitars that I have bought through the internet . . . I would have passed on if I was inspecting them and playing them in a shop. After receiving certain guitars with "issues", that I decided to keep anyway . . . I realize that I would have never pulled the trigger in a shop. Now, I realize that I couldn't be without those same guitars and I have looked beyone their "issues".
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I've bought a fair number of guitars without playing them first, ranging from $50 Harmony classicals to a Guild Artist Award. The two higher end instruments I bought from dealers with good reputations, a Guild D-50 from Elderly and the AA from Archtop.com. I've been mildly disappointed with a couple. A new Epiphone Masterbilt from Musician's Friend could have used a setup, but not so bad that I haven't played it with no problems other than a little high action. A 50s Sovereign needed a neck reset, but I pretty much expected it would.
So, overall I have had positive experiences with on line purchases and will probably buy some more in the future.
Brad
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Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
With regard to Bendetto and Sadowsky, it's not just LA, but everyone's out of luck--they cut out the middlemen, you have to buy directly from them now--at least NEW guitars, that is.
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I suppose that buying or at least trying a brand new factory guitar is often possible in most fair size cities, but buying a vintage instrument or one from a luthier or independent builder can be a different story and one may have to buy sight unseen.
I must have bought close to fifty instruments online over the years and I was disappointed only a handful of times. Of those instruments, I have bought a few worth a few hundred dollars off ebay or forums. For more valuable instruments, I always go with dealers who have an established good reputation or people I somewhat know and whom I trust. They can give a good description over the phone and also usually have a good return policy. Among the shops that I have bought instruments online from, there is the Twelfth Fret in Toronto ON, Bernunzio in Rochester NY, Intermountain Guitar & Banjo in Salt Lake City UT and Archtop.com in Seattle WA. Other very reputable shops out there that come to mind: Gruhn (Nashville TN), Gryphon (Palo Alto CA), Folkway Music (Guelph ON), Players Vintage Instruments (Inverness, CA), Vintage Instruments (Philadelphia PA), Schoenberg (Tiburon CA) and there are more.
One of the keys to success is to do your homework and find out everything you can about the instrument/model as well as about the seller. Then call or write to musical friends to discuss about it, particularly friends whose taste, critical mind and experience you know well. It's good to have a basis of caparison: use your knowledge and experience and base your discussions and questions on other instruments that you know.
Finally, make sure that all the terms are clear for both parties before the transaction: payment, shipping method, which shipping service to use (including return shipping and reimbursement should it occur) and return policy.Last edited by Eddie Lang; 09-18-2011 at 05:08 PM.
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