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I still love all the folks who have never played one of these talkibg about how much it should be worth.
The guitar is top quality--a professional grade instrument in every respect.
They've been on the market for several years now at roughly the same price. As the poster above me wisely stated--Godin os a successful company...they didn't get there by grossly overpricing their instruments.
Seriously, if you haven't played one of these, track one down. Then you'll be telling me it's a bargain.
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07-07-2014 01:33 PM
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Im gonna have to disagree with you massively.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I won't go into details but I think they are over priced, poorly spec'd and the design is somewhat off the mark in terms of playability.
I mean look at the stuff coming out of China these days. I can't see Godin lasting too long when people realise that paying an extra £400 because it ses Made In Canada is not worth the added value.
(Im not even talking about the new $1,950 model).
But thats my opinion.
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Details would be nice, as "poorly spec'd" and "design is somewhat off in terms of playability" is a bunch of jibberish.
If you don't like it, fine, but don't make shit up to qualify it. Its okay just to not like something.
And for the record, I got nothing against the guitars coming out of China...but every week here there's a thread about changing the pickups, the wiring, etc...
I could buy one of these Godins, tune it, and gig it ten minutes later.
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Amen Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
As in music, some folks have something to say, and some just want to make noise.
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I think the Godin Jazz is a little overpriced compared to other 5th Ave offerings, JMO, though I have seen them on sale for quite a bit less than $1800. It is a sweet-sounding guitar that I think compares more than favorably to a 175, but it is only a jazz box, can't do much else.
The Premiere (~$1250 MRSP) is a better deal and more versatile with 2 humbuckers. I can't dispute someone's subjective impression, but I have owned several Godins and have played the Premiere quite a bit, and I think the quality is top-notch.
I can't think of any Chinese-made guitar that would compare to the Godin archtops for quality and bang for the buck. Korean or Japanese--maybe. I recently got a Korean Peerless that I like a lot--very similar to the Premiere, though it's a full hollow, not semi. The playability and quality are similar, but I would give a slight edge to the Godin for sound. However, the Peerless was about half the price of the Godin, so that tipped the scale for me.
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I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that prices don't reflect quality, they reflect sale-ability. Prices reflect demand. If many consumers demand something, the price will be dear, if not, it will go cheaply. A guitar, like anything else, is only ever overpriced if sales drop. If sales are brisk, the guitar is priced properly.
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Hi,
I found this small record my fiend did for me.. where I live there not many archtops, so I asked him to record from a shop when he was in another city...
he is not jazz player, nit even a guitarist (a trumpeter) - but very talented and just easily picks any instrument at basics..
Recorded with cheapest Tascam
https://www.sendspace.com/file/phjsa8
so he is just noodling here.
How do you think what guitar is this? or at least what is its price?
Just for fun... not to catch
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Easy there Mr beaumont, no one is 'making up shit' and 'talking gibberish' Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I have owned A godin so am talking from experience (probably one you haven't owned to boot). Their strat copy is pretty poor and at £600 well over priced compared to say a £200 Yamaha pacifica (which actually plays better) same woods etc, same basic design. The stock pickups in the Freeway are certainly dull/lifeless, so I don't think they will be putting any pickup makers out of business just yet and Im sure techs have seen their fair share come in for an upgrade.
My point about china was that for the same price or less you can get so much more. Look at Eastmen!
I don't think you will agree that the Godin brand is one of luxury. Satin finish, no real binding and none at all on the fretboard. No ebony and little to no wood figuring.
Of course they have to do this, to keep costs down but these days, I don't think people care if their guitar is made in Canada (then shipped and assembled in the US) especially when China is turning the budget world on its head and the quality is getting better and better. I mean look at the Ibanez stuff now, simply mind blowing what they are doing at the price point.
I know your a big fan but that doesn't mean others aren't and for perfectly valid reasons.
:-)Last edited by GoergeBenson; 07-07-2014 at 03:45 PM.
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It is true maybe but not for regular consumer... regular consumer considers price reflects quality.I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that prices don't reflect quality, they reflect sale-ability. Prices reflect demand. If many consumers demand something, the price will be dear, if not, it will go cheaply. A guitar, like anything else, is only ever overpriced if sales drop. If sales are brisk, the guitar is priced properly.
So there should some other selling argument
Sell me for example Gibson L-5.. I hope your argument will not be that it is my demand made the price...
So what will be arguments for common? Why is it so expensive?
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Well, The Godin jazz has an ebony fingerboard, flamed maple top, back and sides...
Luxury though? Are we here to look at 'em or play 'em?
Still wondering what "poorly spec'd" and "design is somewhat off in terms of playability" mean.
Again nothing wrong about not being a fan. I don't even need valid reasons...but if you're going to say something like those above comments, at least be able to explain what the hell they mean.
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Well to be fair to myself (which is not often the case lol) I did put up the reasons earlier in the thread and thats why I didn't want to repeat. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Here is what I said.
"A Fender American Strat. I was using the Godin Freeway? Their strat copy essentially.
Looks like a strat but
1. Doesn't sound like one, sounds more like a Levinson Blade which is to say flat or slightly lifeless (imo)
2. You couldn't bend the strings without pinching the one above or below, which I tried to remedy but saw no immediate solution to".
On a plus side, the neck was nice and the veneer was nice but the guitar just had no life to it and I have heard many with the same complaint (although that doesn't always mean much).
It was a shame because I really wanted to like the Godin brand, I liked what they were doing, I liked the video of the nerdy guy in a hermetically sealed chamber talking about guitar science. In the end though, what was on the plate was just pffffff soulless and not very playable at all (considering you couldn't bend the strings more than halt a pitch).
If you don't mind me asking? I would say that the kingpin is not really a bop guitar, its more a flat-top/blues 1920's type hybrid.
Would you say that is fair? I just can't get on with them and I can't put my finger on why.
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I thought we were talking about the Godin Fifth Avenue Jazz?
As for the single P90 kingpin, yeah, kind of a Es 125 vibe, or maybe an old harmony or Kay...not a set humbucker "bop" guitar (that's new terminology to me, but I get it...I think)
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Lol ok fair enough I was talking about Godin strats and Godin in general. Again I can only say that, I want to like Godin I really do but I just don't. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
They haven't made a guitar at a price point yet, that makes me think wow, this is a 'must have' guitar and they haven't made a guitar at any price point I think 'Must Have'.
Their Strats are just not good period (imo), which is odd considering they have had over 60 years to either improve on it, or offer a better value alternative.
And the Kingpin, I just don't know what it is. Is it a flat top? is it an archtop? why is it laminate because they feed back like a banshee? And i'm sure P-90's look the part but in practice I bet they are a pain in the bum. Noise prone pickups, on an already feedback prone guitar. Is it an acoustic instrument? is it electric?
You see the trouble I'm having here lol I wouldn't play bop on it but nor would I play chord melody because it still sounds like a laminate guitar and the body is too small, to offer a full depth of tone. I just don't know what it wants lol
Although I know it doesn't want to give you a nice finish, ebony woods, or any real detail to the body (Ok GB shut up now)
Oh and an 'Old Kay' was exactly what I was thinking.
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The Godin P90 is pretty quiet.
And single coil pickups were the sound of jazz up until 1957 or so right?
There's tons of laminate jazz boxes on the market. Why is the Kingpin so hard to figure out?
Why can't you play chord melody on a laminate guitar? You mean acoustically?
Have you even tried the 5th av. Jazz?
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So you were the lucky guy who bought a Godin Strat that sucked. Couldn't adjust the neck to allow you to bend the strings without fretting out? Sorry to here that. Not my experience - I've bought and sold many Godin solid-body guitars in the tele and strat mode (for fun AND profit). None of them sucked, they were all quite adjustable (I adjusted them myself) and I could bend the crap out of the strings without fretting out. The Fender-style ones sounded just like Fender guitars. I think you got a dud, which does suck. Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
As far as comparing them to Fenders, just make sure that you don't buy an older Fender, since Godin supplied necks and bodies to Fender for years (shhhh!).
At some point, I will probably get a Godin Passion (their best body, IMO) and put one of my whopper aftermarket necks on it. I suspect that it will sound like a strat, only better. The only Fender Strat that interest me these days is this one, and only for the body, quite frankly - I played one recently and it sounded REALLY good:
Reclaimed Old Growth Redwood Stratocaster® | Special Edition Series | Fender®
Or maybe just make one.Last edited by Hammertone; 07-07-2014 at 05:21 PM.
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The Kingpin seems to want to be an acoustic instrument more than an electric one, which puts it in an odd position considering it doesn't have a solid top yet is priced in the range where it should.
It seems to want to be a guitar from yesteryear that i don't know how to fit in, with the way things have gone over the last 60-70 years.
Its a bit of a throw back to something that should have a ladder bracing system and a bottleneck handy with a bad pick-up fitted. You know the type
Plus for £100 more you could have bought a Furch hand made solid topped 17" real acoustic archtop. and for a couple of hundred less something that plays just as well with a laminate body.
In all, I don't know where it fits in regarding price, I don't know where it fits in regarding construction and I don't know where its belongs in terms of sound.
I also find the sound just a little boring. Its round in all the right places an even across the strings yet doesn't jump out to me as sounding good in spite of any of those things. Kinda like a mess does cleans, maybe too clean, maybe unresponsive, I don't know. As i've said before can't put my finger on it.
But anyway as long as people enjoy it doesn't matter :-)
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$1900 is a good price for a quality guitar, regardless of where it's made. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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The kingpins are quite cheap here in the states...I got mine for $500-give or take, I forget. Couldn't get anywhere close to a furch for that.
Im not convinced they're "trying to be acoustic," there's the non pickup model that's even cheaper...but the kingpin is very much an electric. Sounds great plugged in...charlie christian tones, jimmy raney, rene thomas, early kenny burrell, early jim hall...P90's can get those tones.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 07-07-2014 at 05:42 PM.
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Europe and North America - apparently divided by more than just a large body of water.
IMO, in North America, the Kingpin is for folks who like the idea of a funky old-school low-end Gibson/National/Kay/Harmony/Regal/Silvertone/MontgomeryWard beater archtop. But old Gibsons (even the cheapo models) are now mostly out of reach, and the other brands are disappearing. When they do surface, they are all screwed up and need work. Scary stuff for so many consumers. Easier to buy the Kingpin, new or used - well made, reliable, does what it does. And cheap. Loar has entered the exact same market niche.
Europe has tons of cool, old, cheap non-cutaway laminated archtop guitars (mostly German) that can easily be made to play and sound great, but in addition to being old, screwed up and needing work, they aren't American, and Europeans are enamored with American pop culture. So they don't bother with their own cool old archtops, and get hammered with laughably high prices. That plus 20% tax utterly transforms the value landscape.Last edited by Hammertone; 07-07-2014 at 07:21 PM.
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"Why is it so expensive?" I'll try again: the model is profitable at that price ... enough consumers are willing to pay that price for the company to make what they consider a good profit. If sales plummet, the price will go down. Simply, it is that price because buyers are willing to pay that price. Originally Posted by Jonah
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I agree entirely. You the Godin thing on the head. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Yes those old Hofners are a handful. TBH if they didn't have a huge mound in the middle of the neck (Im not sure of the radius) they would be much more sort after, trust me :-)
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Or maybe they're looking for their own twist on the strat formula. After all if you want a Strat, why buy a Godin? You don't like their version, that's fine, I'm not fond of Godin solid bodies myself, but the quality control on all all Godin's I tried has been pretty high. Originally Posted by GoergeBenson
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Hofner/A.Hoyer/Framus/Hopf/Klira/R.Hoyer/Neubauer/Fasan/Astro/Alosa/Voss/Soli/Tellson/Isana/Lindberg/Penzel/Jorgensen/Huttl/Bauer/Edelton/Alva/Herweton/OttoGlasel/GEWA/Eko/Rosetti/Egmond/Goya/Defil/Hagstrom/Antoria/Jolana/Bjarton/Welson and MORE - manufacturer brands, retail brands, wholesale brands, not even counting the stuff from Lang/Roger/Glassl/Levin/Jacobacci and a few others, or any of the East german stuff (both good and bad).
Plenty of them have flatter radius fingerboards, including lots of '60s Hofners with excellent necks. Or you can just get the board flattened and refretted. They are so cheap, it's still a bargain. But that's another topic.
I'm impressed with what Robert Godin has done by entering the archtop market - those guitars are not for me, personally, but hat's off to the guy.
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Well you certainly know your European Archtops. Im not sure how easy it would be to remove that much wood. Certainly the fret inlays would need to be removed and re affixed, not an easy task. Originally Posted by Hammertone
Thy also had a habit of using some odd materials, pine for one
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Yeh I suppose I was being a bit flippant in my remark. I'm sure they are good for some but its like the Levinson, just no good to me. As much as I want them to be. Anything not to give my money to Fender Originally Posted by D.G.
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