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I’ve been saying this for a couple of years now but holy shit it’s so good on an archtop. I’ve tried a bunch of different pickups on my L5 wesmo CT from Throbak to Ron Ellis to Gabojo to whatever. I had a Ron Ellis LRP in there for about a year or maybe longer. I have the Ron Ellis in my Les Paul and they’re incredible in that but I had been meaning to put the trusty 57 classic back in after feeling that the Ron Ellis isn’t that great for an archtop.
This past weekend I put the 57 in, changed the bridge saddle for an ebony one, and put on some dogal expressive flat wounds.
Holy shit what a great sound. My band mate was commenting on it and we usually tell ourselves these things don’t make much difference to anyone other than the player.
I know never to swap out a 57 classic on an L5. Such an important ingredient to that sound.Last edited by omphalopsychos; 02-19-2026 at 10:53 AM.
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02-19-2026 02:43 AM
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I think they also define the ES-175 sound when combined with the laminate body. That's why I think Epiphone ES-175 Premium sounds closer to the Gibson original than do other Epiphone ES-175 models.
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The only pickup I have found to be on par or better than them (for me) is the calibrated T-Type in the neck of my new 335. It has better clarity without losing the richness but I don't need to change any amp or pedal settings between the two ES'. I slightly prefer it to the '57 in the neck for that reason as I use the neck for a lot of solos. The T-Type bridge is acceptable but I slightly prefer the 57, lol. Not as fat/rich sounding as the '57. It is a good deal brighter but the similar level of compression keeps it from ever getting harsh.
The 57's in my Edwards 355 are staying there, as a swap isn't worth the money or hassle and even if I swapped it would only be the neck to a new T-type as the bridge 57 smokes through a Twin with the pickup lowered and the pole pieces raised. And TBH I kept the factory height settings in those T-Types so I don't know how my usual lower-pickup-raise-polepiece method would make them stack up vs a 57. If it sounds good I leave it alone!!!
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I’ve gone through dozens of humbuckers in many different styles of guitars from Archtops,thinlines,solid and chambered body styled guitars,
Each guitar benefits from different ones out there. Classic 57’s are darker more powerful vintage style PAF pickups wound with matched coils and number of winds,as well as Alnico 2 magnets.
That can be a good thing for a classic Wes Montgomery style tone.
However in a Les Paul or even a 335 that is laminate and 24&3/4” shorter scale. That can be too muddy or dark for some players.
Especially since they want a clearer tone from their neck pickup.
I have a Benedetto Bambino std ( 25” scale,maple neck and ebony fingerboard)that I have Manluis Landmark 7k ohm Alnico 2 mismatch coils in the neck,and a Hot Rod 8.3 k Alnico 5 in the bridge. They are 4 conductor and wax potted.
This gives me the versatility in tone I need for many styles of music from Jazz STDs to Rock/Blues,etc.
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I’ve never found 57 Classics to be dark or muddy at in solid body guitars. I’ve also tried many original PAFs that were wound considerably hotter than 57 Classics FWIW. Most originals I’ve experienced have a similar resistance reading to 57 Classics, so Im not sure how the 57s are more powerful.
Originally Posted by jads57
I think the 57 Classic is one of the most versatile pickups Gibson has ever made, sounding great in almost anything. In contrast I love original T-tops in archtops, but find them somewhat lacking in semi-hollow and solid body guitars.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think that a 490R or a T-Top does better than a 57 Classic in the neck position of a Les Paul. At least based on my experience. The Les Paul that I owned with a 57 Classic did get a bit muddy for my taste. Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
The only built in Humbucker that I like as much (and possibly more) in an archtop is Kent Armstrong's hand made 12 pole PAF. A lot of Boutique builders use Kent's top shelf pickups, and IMO, for good reason.
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Wow,we have very different experiences and tastes apparently. I had a Pat Martino Gibson chambered years back that I absolutely hated the tone of the Classic 57’s. Had them rewound by Wolfetone pickups to mismatched lower output affairs,which solved the issue for me.
Had a 2014 ES-339 Studio,same situation again this time went with Manluis pickups mentioned in my previous post as well.
Did later own another ES-339 CS which sounded okay with Classic 57’s but again went with Manluis mentioned pickups again.
I will say I like Gibsons Calibrated T Tops in the new 335’s!
I also use a Kent Armstrong Floating 12 pole piece on my Elferink Archtop, quite happy with it. But a different affair altogether.
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I continue to be amazed at our similarity in equipment choices! I’m a big fan of the Benson milkman, I have a Lil King S and recently saw that you have a Lil King that you must not like as much as I like mine because you were thinking of selling it. Mine came used upgraded with a celestion 50th anniversary speaker and upgraded transformers from mercury. I don’t know if that makes a difference but I do love this amp for jazz. As for this post, I recently purchased a Wesmo used which is being worked on by my luthier so I haven’t really dug into it yet but I’m also a big fan of dogal expressive flats. I’ve been using 11 gauge on my 16 inch Trenier carved. I’m tempted to use 11s on the Wesmo, but I’m thinking that the deeper body would benefit from 12s. I’m curious what gauge you’re using? Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I tried both 490 and 57 in the neck of my LP copy and they both sounded really good. If the 57's were cheaper I would've settled on that but it went into another gigging guitar as I do not gig an LP so the LP got a 490r. I find them to be exceedingly close in tone for any rock/blues type of use with maybe a bit more compression to the 490r. I think the "muddiness" remarks are very closely tied to amp selection and a person's preferred EQ settings. I've had a 490r in an ES333 and it was excellent, and only switched with a 57 with the idea that it would be an improvement, which in the end, was negligible, if there were any at all. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I should add I’m a tone chaser and it’s a sickness,Lol! Even when I find the tone,I end up keep searching, only to regret what I had!
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All of my electric Gibsons will always remain stock. The pickups in question are '57s, Pat. No. stickers, 50s P90 and 490s.
Edit! I forgot the BB Pros. No kidding.
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Not discounting your ear or preferences, as we all have our own, but my only comment is that, if you changed 3 key ingredients of the guitar's tone mechanisms, of course you will notice a big change. But which one accomplished the most good? Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Of course, I'm happy that you are happy with the changes.
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As far as 57 Classics go, I believe it depends on which ones you have. As well as the guitar they sit in.
I had an LP with them, not that impressive. I put some in a Lucille semi hollow, and had to remove one from the neck position - too muddy, esp. on the low strings.
Gibson puts pickups in guitars and sends them out the door. My '81 L5 had Shaw humbuckers, and the guitar woke up after I replaced them. I was considering selling it before I made the move!
The new T-tops in my 2023 335 are ok, it took some time to dial in the tone I like. Better now, and I don't entertain the thought of changing them.
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I agree the wood they sit in is what’s amplified and accented!
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+1
Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
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The Classic 57’s in my 335 seemed quite dark and muddy to me, so I replaced them with Lollar Imperials… low-wind at the neck and normal-wind at the bridge. A significant improvement in that guitar to my ears. Clarity!!
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Exact re-action to my putting Seth Lovers in my L5. Clarity, and when dialing the tone down to "mellow", they are still alive, and clear. Originally Posted by vernon
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So again the guitar itself makes all the difference. I think we also are chasing the tone by famous players we all have heard on records over and over for years!
And while it’s somewhat possible,the player is the main difference!
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Too clear for my tastes. In my Edwards E-SA168 they were strident even when I'd roll the guitar tone or amp EQ back. Usable, but I swapped 57's in there as soon as I could afford to. Even in my rather dark LP copy they were still a bit too bright. They seem to lack the richness of a 57. Originally Posted by Jimmy Mack
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Is this the 7.2k or the 8k '57 Classic pickup? Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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The guitar is a 2001 Hutchins CT wesmo in blonde. I don’t think many were made. Idk the impedance and I appreciate people who like other pickups. Everyone has a favorite flavor of ice cream.
fwiw I’ve tested it out without changing so many variants and my conclusion has always been the same. The dogals plus ebony bridge are just an extra bonus.
I use a set of 12s from dogal with 13 and 17 on top.
and last but not least. Behold
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O. That's a winner! 4 sure.
I like less girth on a guitar that my big Gibson's. Mark Campellone's similar build are a joy to play too!
But speaking of pickups, I wonder what pickups would be in my '72 175? It always sounds so good.
The GJS I recently acquired has been fitted with a KA12, and it's fabulous. Probably sacrilegious, but I still have the original JS in the case.
I love your guitar.
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Sky, if your 72 175 has the original pickups, they are T-tops. Originally Posted by skykomishone
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I'm chasing the tone I had with a 1960 ES345. Originally Posted by jads57
I'll bet you've had a few of those moments, with the guitars that you had!
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This thread is kind of funny for me because I just spent the whole afternoon swaping the 57 classics in my ES135 for SD Seth Lovers.
Despite the ES135 is a 100% maple guitar, I found it sounded kind of dark and a bit sterile.
I've justed tested the guitar, and l'm really happy. The guitar has gained clarity, the notes sing just like I want. But I have to admit the difference is not crazy either. It didn't transform the guitar, it just does what I was hoping, a bit livelier and airy sound. It also has lost some midrange.
The work on the guitar allowed me to discover what I already knew, but still suprised me : the huge chunk of balsa acting as the center block.. I could squeeze my nail into it with the slightest force. Really strange design. But the guitar is 25 years old and is superbly built, so no worries. Its acoustic voice is between a 335 and 175. It's a very underatted guitar, I suspect because of that balsa that scares people ?
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