Gibson 57 Classic

[Stringswinger]

Knowing that some '63 175Ds possibly did have one PAF, if not two, my interest is in what would have been under the hood of the Pat. No. stickered HBs. I have two in my '63. They honestly sound wonderful. At the time it probably saved me a couple of K pricewise. Probably more today.

Having had a 63 175 and having needed to restore it, I studied the Gibson Humbucker thing to a stupid degree. Interestingly, the early (non-T-top) patent sticker pickups that I found and put into that guitar did sound better than the 57 Classics that I sold that guitar with (I came out way ahead pulling the vintage pickups and selling them and the guitar in different sales.)

PAF's were all over the place with different magnets and different winds. The last of the PAF's had short magnets and the earliest (and most valuable) Patent sticker pickups are 100 percent identical to the late PAF's. In mid 1963, the wire used was changed and by 1965 the T-top showed up (which had a different build and sound). The pickups that I put in my 63 175 were the ones with the changed wire. I know that old stock, late PAF's did make their way into some 1963 Gibsons (and later on models with gold plated covers) and I presume that my 63 175 had PAF's which were pulled and sold long before I got that guitar. My 63 175 had many issues when I got it (including a major misrepresentation from Heritage auctions, who I will never again do business with) and I was not super pleased with the restoration work done by luthier Sean Spurling so I sold that guitar to a Doctor from Berkeley, California. But I do remember that those early Patent sticker pickups sounded better than the 57 Classics. At one point, I owned three of those early pickups and there are days when I wish I had kept all three. There is a real mojo that those early Gibson humbuckers have. I can bear witness to that.

[garybaldy]

Having had a 63 175 and having needed to restore it, I studied the Gibson Humbucker thing to a stupid degree. Interestingly, the early (non-T-top) patent sticker pickups that I found and put into that guitar did sound better than the 57 Classics that I sold that guitar with (I came out way ahead pulling the vintage pickups and selling them and the guitar in different sales.)

PAF's were all over the place with different magnets and different winds. The last of the PAF's had short magnets and the earliest (and most valuable) Patent sticker pickups are 100 percent identical to the late PAF's. In mid 1963, the wire used was changed and by 1965 the T-top showed up (which had a different build and sound). The pickups that I put in my 63 175 were the ones with the changed wire. I know that old stock, late PAF's did make their way into some 1963 Gibsons (and later on models with gold plated covers) and I presume that my 63 175 had PAF's which were pulled and sold long before I got that guitar. My 63 175 had many issues when I got it (including a major misrepresentation from Heritage auctions, who I will never again do business with) and I was not super pleased with the restoration work done by luthier Sean Spurling so I sold that guitar to a Doctor from Berkeley, California. But I do remember that those early Patent sticker pickups sounded better than the 57 Classics. At one point, I owned three of those early pickups and there are days when I wish I had kept all three. There is a real mojo that those early Gibson humbuckers have. I can bear witness to that.

Thanks. I guess I'd need to date my Pat. Nos. to ascertain what wire was used. Potentially they could have been manufactured in '62 if in a '63 instrument.
I've been reading about the discarded PAF accounts here. You mention gold covered one's used 'later'. I wonder how that fits in with the story and whether Gibson only threw out the nickel covered ones.

[bluejaybill]

Thanks. I guess I'd need to date my Pat. Nos. to ascertain what wire was used. Potentially they could have been manufactured in '62 if in a '63 instrument.
I've been reading about the discarded PAF accounts here. You mention gold covered one's used 'later'. I wonder how that fits in with the story and whether Gibson only threw out the nickel covered ones.

While it is possible that they threw a bunch of them out, many 62-64 Gibsons had one PAF and one patent number, this has been well documented. So for sure they were using some of them up.

[garybaldy]

While it is possible that they threw a bunch of them out, many 62-64 Gibsons had one PAF and one patent number, this has been well documented. So for sure they were using some of them up.

The gist of my post is that if they did throw out PAFs but they used gold covered PAFs 'later', they couldn't have thrown the gold one's out. Also, of that mix of PAFs and PATs. during 62-63, were they all really the same pickup but with different stickers?

[bluejaybill]

The gist of my post is that if they did throw out PAFs but they used gold covered PAFs 'later', they couldn't have thrown the gold one's out. Also, of that mix of PAFs and PATs. during 62-63, were they all really the same pickup but with different stickers?

Sorry, I didn't mean to direct that specifically at you.

Everything I have read is that they were mighty close, if not identical, close enough that you could use one of each in the same guitar anyway. I have seen Tom Bukavich demo a 335 from around that era and it definitely has the PAF sound. But I'm no expert.

[jads57]

So while some of the PAF’s sounded wonderful for sure. I think much of its due to aging magnets that weaken and some other factors as well.
Being old enough to have owned a couple 50’s Gibsons with them,I don’t think they are better than what’s offered on the current market. And in fact you have way more control over what to choose for your particular situation.

I was never one to care much about vintage collecting. I only chased what worked for me at the time. And with all of the Reissue guitars,pickups,amps,etc. we live in a way better situation, gear wise!
Now gig wise and music wise? Well just like the old guys when I was way younger,Lol!

[omphalopsychos]

On Monday night I saw Pete Bernstein at Yoshis with the trio. He’s got a 57 classic on his guitar. He sounded great as usual. I don’t know what this has to do with anything other than his pickup.

[wintermoon]

On Monday night I saw Pete Bernstein at Yoshis with the trio. He’s got a 57 classic on his guitar. He sounded great as usual. I don’t know what this has to do with anything other than his pickup.

I think he originally had a Gibson Howard Roberts pickup on it but that was a long time ago.

[skykomishone]

Couldn't have been Bernstein's playing! Hahahaha ?. Must've been the pickup ?
Usually a few notes will give him away.