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57 classics are about as good as you can get. I've had a bunch of them and never felt a need to change them.
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02-20-2026 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stringswinger
SS, Thanks.
I bought the guitar in 1972, poor as a church mouse, and between me and the guitar, nothing's changed except me. The guitar is 100% original. Me, a few finish dings and checking, and needed some cleats over the years. But we both still play fine!
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What an interesting thread.
I had to swap the Classic 57 in my‘ 97 Wesmo with a high wind Lollar Imperial to get the tone I heard in my head. Love it now. The stock 57 was too thin and a bit trebly without much body. Ironically, I also had to swap the neck 57 out of my ‘95 335 with a CR Coils Crossroads to get RID of the mud!
I DO like them in my 175 VOS. Interesting, that the supposedly same ingredients produce such a varied response, depending on the guitar.
All good and a fun pursuit.
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When we're the Gibson Classic 57, as we know them today, introduced?
The humbucker Wes used in his one pickup model was maybe quite different than the current 57 Gibson produces these days?
The one of in my 2002 ES135 has that black and gold sticker with PAT
I've seen some from the 90's with Gibson USA engraved in the back.. newer one have a white sticker.
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Google claims they were introduced in 1990 which seems about right. I've had mid/late 90's version, owned and played early 2000's versions, have one from around 2010, and have a more recent one and though there was a good bit of variation in ohms readings they all sounded the same to me. How you adjust them makes more difference than the particular year IME. I have heard those claims made before but I suspect it was a particular guitar with the heights at a given setting. Originally Posted by Jx30510
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Classic 57s are the best sounding humbuckers IMO. I have a recent 335 that came with the Calibrated T-Types. Hated them. Way too bright and brittle for me. Swapped them out for Classic 57s and man what an improvement. Not sure what Gibson is thinking with the T-Types. If it ain't broke.....
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I think I know what they were thinking.... Originally Posted by WillsJazz
Most people use 335's for rock and blues, not jazz, i.e more commonly used with gain tones (just a guess).
Most people play at home, not on stage, and generally use too much bass in their tone which I would guess is sometimes part of the "57 classics are too muddy" comments. Paired with gain and the wrong amp and heights set wrong they could definitely be called muddy.
My two main guitars, both 335 style, have T-types (Gibson) and 57 classic pickups (Edwards E-SA). It would be tough for me to choose which ones I prefer. Since I use gain and play blues music I have lately, and probably will continue, to slightly favor the T-Types but can also say my 57 classics aren't going anywhere either. I have had them in many guitars! If I were a clean tone jazz player I can definitely see preferring the 57 classics as they are just a richer, fuller, warmer sound.
Maybe I need to crank out a comparison video one of these days but what good would it be if it weren't done in a band setting?
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This is an example of an engaging thread.
The 1957 Gibson humbuckers were not consistent among themselves. The current 57's probably are. Also, the ones made in 1957 likely don't sound like they did almost 70 years ago. Nonetheless I get the points and passion expressed.
My old luthier worked at Gibson beginning around 1960 onward. After Gibson moved south, he was its warranty repair guy for many years. He had tons of stories. One of them was from the early 1960s. The CFO of Gibson told him to clear out the boxes of the old pickups, along with a lot of other stuff, because Gibson wasn't using them anymore and needed the storage space. My luthier moved the boxes to the back of his pickup truck and took them to the dump. He died some years ago, but it wasn't lost on him that those pickups are now romanticised and highly valuable. I'm smitten also by the nostalgia.
So it is always risks disagreement when talking about these things. Here's someone who argues that the much of what goes into designing an electric guitar doesn't matter with the sound quality. I believe he does make a point but overstates it.
Musicologists acknowledge that much of what we hear is shaped by expectations and context. What I can confidently say is that wax potting has helped me avoid amplified clicks from my pick on the pickup cover. I appreciate that.
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I think that story is bs.
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Yeah, I've commented on it before and w all due respect I'm still not buying it and never will.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard back in the day stories from old guys that remember them incorrectly.
What does 'they weren't using them anymore' mean? They never stopped using humbuckers. It's well known Gibson used the newly labeled pat # pickups when the paf labeled ones were used up. Does anybody really believe Gibson would throw away perfectly good pickups just to create space? Nah....
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I can believe those kind of stories. Never underestimate corporate inefficiency. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I recorded in a couple nice studios where the same well respected engineer worked and had some personally owned gear at both locations. Some old 40's-50's era preamps. When I asked him where he got them he said when he was working for CBS in NYC they threw them in the garbage when they refurbished their studios. He grabbed them and brought them back to life. Or maybe he just helped himself to them, I dunno. Anything is possible....
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Old used equipment isn't quite the same as throwing away new humbuckers, especially considering that Gibson never stopped using them in new guitars. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Agree. Nor did they stop using P-90 soapbar or dogear pickups. Nor did they stop using AlNiCo V pickups - the Les Paul Custom w/AlNiCo V pickups was a special order item from 1957 until 1993, when it became a Historic Reissue model. Originally Posted by wintermoon
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One thing I’ll say to people that don’t like the 57 classics is that when I played them at home by myself they felt too heavy in the midrange and maybe too compressed. But that midrange gives them a smooth growl and with a band they cut through very nicely. I remember a trombonist that I played with for a couple of years and had heard lots of my guitars came up to me after a show and told me my Wesmo (not this one but also had dogals and an ebony bridge saddle) was the best sounding guitar tone he’d ever heard.
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Again the guitar itself makes a huge difference in what pickups sound like. Also adjusting your amp tone controls are important.
I can see how people like the fuller smooth Classic 57 overall.
But I disagree the newer T Top Calibrated sound thin or trebly. I felt they were a great match the newer Gibson 335,345 models.
You need to find what works for you and your situation.
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Especially since many guitars in the early-mid '60's have one of each. And the construction was virtually identical; early patent #'s sound the same for the most part. We are talking about stickers here. So they were definitely using them up. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I have heard that when guitars were returned to the factory for repairs they might replace the pickups with new ones and toss the old, maybe because the plating looked bad?
But you can never really tell the veracity of these old yarns.
What I can say is that there is a difference. I have owned PAF guitars, played many more, and have had a pair of real PAF's on a R8 since '94.. I've tried to replace them several times with top boutiques- no dice. They really are better.
And as to the old saying that they were all over the place soundwise, sorry, that has not been my experience. They do differ somewhat, within a range of outputs, but nearly all that I've played share the characteristics we know and (hopefully) love. What's really amazing is how versatile the originals were. They effortlessly run the range from Wes to Joe Pass to Metheny to Beano era Clapton to Bloomfield to Santana. Some repros have approached that, I would like to try the '57 classic and see how close it gets. For jazz I think pretty close!
OK, off my soapbox now.
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The T-Types have better articulation than the 57's but are not near as bright as the Seths IME. They are unpotted but still compress nicely like a 57! I think it was a good move on Gibsons part, which isn't something we see from Gibson very often, LOL. Originally Posted by jads57
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At some point with the early patent sticker pickups, Gibson changed the wire used, but many of the early patent sticker pickups are identical to late PAF's which had a shorter magnet than the early PAF's. While winds and output are all over the place, PAF's and early Patent sticker buckers do have a sound that no modern builder has been able to replicate making their high selling price justifiable to some. IMO, the early patent sticker pickups are the better buy as they can be had for much less than the PAF's. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
T-Tops are a whole different pickup, but still pretty damn good. The earlier ones with the stickers are generally better than the later ones with the patent number stamped in the back. Personally, for jazz, I prefer Shaws or 57 classics to T-Tops and I do not like Burstbuckers for jazz at all. I have no experience with the new T-Tops. The MHS pickups are excellent if you can find them.
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That really does sum it up. Something I think about from time to time is that I don't hear the exact same guitar and amp the way I did 20 years ago because my hearing has changed. I've had some high-end hearing loss over probably the last 30 years but worsening as I've gotten into my 60s. I've noticed a lot of aging guitarists tend to have a brighter sound as they get older and I suspect this is the explanation. At this point I find high frequencies to often sound harsh when clearly others in the room don't. Originally Posted by jads57
The wood versus wire debate about amplified guitar tone has been going on as long as there has been amplified guitar tone. People believe what they believe, they hear what they believe they hear and few of us are likely to change our opinion when confronted with contrary information. That's not true just in guitar tone but life in general. We like to confirm what we already believe and we tend to reject what doesn't agree with what we already believe.
I find, as I get older, that I am gravitating towards equipment that is easier to transport and more comfortable to play; that means my solidbodies or my GB10 and my TOOB Metro/EG250. The practical matters outweigh nuances of tone which are mostly buried once the drums, bass and vocals kick in. Stages are smaller, audiences are smaller and I don't need an 80 lb Pro Reverb or even my tweed Deluxe and an archtop for the very few gigs I play any more. At home I often indulge in the archtop or the ES-175, though. I think I have some un-sentimental decision-making ahead of me, though.
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"Bright" is one of those ambiguous words...it's the opposite of "dark"... the meaning is subjective and depends on one's personal preferences and understanding of guitar tone.
I have the Gibson Classic 57s (A2) and various "PAF" replicas e.g Burstbuckers. I have humbuckers with A2, A5 as well as ceramic buckers from the 70s. I even got a pair of Epiphone Classic 57s (A5). And I got the P-90 (A5) and various Fender single coils (mostly A5), even a Tele bridge PU with A4...
The end result always depends on the guitar and its electronics; wiring and components. And it depends on pickup adjustment, and, of course, the amp and speaker and instrument cable. And it depends on target output, guitar and amp volume settings...
Significans
-Would you say that the difference is significant If you could dial out the difference using the control panel of your amp? (or most obvious, by using the controls of your guitar?)
Hot stuff
For several decades in the 20th century, product development was all about making as much noise as possible; louder and more distortion (things that most people don't associate with Jazz). Boutique PUs became popular because they produced more noise. The hotter the better, no?
Purpose
Everyone knows that single coils are good for cleans, whereas humbuckers are supposed to do distortion, right? Gibsons are made for da Heavy Metal, Fenders are for pussies, no? (come on, Gibson don't even make archtops anymore. Gibson didn't make a humbucker in the last 60 years that wasn't supposed to distort and you know it).
PAF and great cleans
The community is fed up with distortion. We got all distortion we need a long time ago. We're looking for great cleans and acknowledge the fact that humbuckers can do great cleans too...-What does it mean, exactly? Are old PAFs better for cleans or are they better for distortion? Better for both perhaps? -Why?
Vintage tone
Most Jazzers like vintage music and look for vintage tones. But there's vintage rock music too and many people like "vintage distortion". -What makes the tone "vintage"? The boutique winders jumped on this vintage band wagon decades ago as consumers got tired of their hot, overwound stuff. -What if vintage tone got something to do with the amp and speaker?
Slash saved Rock 'n' Roll
The Classic '57 is a PAF replica from the 90s, the era when "Slash saved rock 'n' roll", remember? -Is it good for cleans or distortion, both perhaps?
Singing sustain
"A2 is great for singing sustain" they say. -What does "singing sustain" mean if you're a Jazz player? -Are you sure those original PAFs came with A2 mags? -What if most vintage tones were produced by A5 mags?
Wiring
-What if "vintage tone" got something to do with wiring and electronics? Did you try both 300k and 500k volume pots with your Classic '57? Vintage or Modern wiring? -How would you describe the difference?
(The only pickups I personally don't think are that great for clean Jazz are the hot overwound stuff, because even when those PUs are adjusted very low, you would still have to roll back guitar Volume to prevent distortion. Consequently there's too much Treble roll off, aka mud. In general I think that low output PUs are easier to handle in traditional Jazz application. The Classic '57s falls somewhere in-between high and low output; less bass and Treble, but more Mids...Great for distortion when you think about it...)
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Have you ever compared the early 60s PAFs with Pat. Nos ? Originally Posted by bluejaybill
Edit: Sorry, realised I'd written PATs instead of PAFs!Last edited by garybaldy; 02-25-2026 at 11:24 AM.
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So how many guitarists does it take to discuss which Humbucker is Best!
Apparently All of Us!
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So, without having to read the whole thread. Originally Posted by jads57
Which Humbucker pickup is best for that classic 1950-60's Wes type Jazz guitar tone?
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That's easy, Classic 57s. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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That my friend is The Thumbucker Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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