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Having played near weekly through one of these at a venue for a year or two, I cannot for the life of me fathom why these amps are so popular with so many guitarists, but I'm in the minority. They are plenty loud.
Originally Posted by garybaldy
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04-21-2025 05:27 PM
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Am I reading correctly that you don't like the Sessionette but used one weekly for 2 years? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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It was the house amp. It wasn't awful, I just didn't really get why people rave about them. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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I won’t comment on watts but I will say I tend to prefer a closed back cab for playing outside. Anyone want to science me on why that sounds better?
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Do you recall the size of the bassists amplification systems - watts/speakers? I think that'd help provide an understanding of what you'd need to have been heard. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
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A closed back cab is quite directional, emitting virtually no sound energy out the back except from the very slight vibration of the cabinet itself. Essentially all of the sound is coming out the front and headed toward the audience. When you play outside with no wall or other reflecting surface behind your amp, any sound going out the back is lost and never reaches the crowd (or you, unless you're standing behind it). If you're using a fully open back, as much as half of your sound energy is directed rearward and (to a lesser extent) sideward. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Closed back cabs also tend to have tighter, punchier bass and lower midrange. Compared to an open cab, this adds weight to your tone when used outdoors because there's no boundary effect or reflection to "catch" the bass and lower midrange energy lost to the rear and sides. The penetration of a tighter, better controlled bottom end and lower middle is what makes many smaller bodied archtops more effective than some big ones for acoustic comping a la Freddie. There may be less deep bass, but that's of no consequence in regard to sonic projection. A really great 16" is often heard better through a band than a 17" or 18" with more low end but less projection. A well designed closed back cab has the same effect compared to an open back cab.
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I believe the bass amp was 60 watts. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
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Of course, that wouldn't necessarily mean he/she would have been squeezing every single watt out of the amp. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
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Not loud enough for you to hear yourself well, or not loud enough out front for the listeners? Or both, or something else? Originally Posted by charleyrich99
My trio is also bass, drums, guitar and we never use a PA (we do mic sometimes to record). I use a Twin Reverb for outdoors - rated 80W but probably averages 5W (so about 15dB of clean headroom). Originally Posted by charleyrich99
I carry a heavy duty outdoor rated 30 ft. extension cord about as big around as my thumb. It is critical to enable flexible amp placement, which may be more critical outdoors. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
Stage volume is typically louder when outside with no PA, so sometimes I'm most comfortable with my sound level when positioned behind my open back Fender tube amp.
It is temping to spread out on a larger stage typical of outdoor shows; that's OK if you place your sound sources (amps and drum kit) close together so that each person hears all instrument sounds coming from the same place - that allows for you to match your sense of rhythmic pace with the others. Awkward placement (sound sources too far apart) can make lack of this matching feel like you can't hear clearly even with increases in volume.
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I always take a Twin for outside gigs. And never worry about security, with a JBL it isn't something someone can pick up and runaway with without having their arm come out of its socket.
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I tend to use mine for rock but just with the clean channel. There is so much variation with the 3 tone controls. I gave it a go last night with one of my budget laminated L5CES - a - likes and I got a wonderful sweet sound. The tones were as I set them for a 'sort of' unplugged gig with my American Standard Strat at the weekend. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I played DB with a late guitarist friend who used one. He always had an amazing sound. We played standards. And of course the late great Micky Gee of Shaking Stevens et al (remember the made for TV Carl Perkins concert with Clapton, George Harrison etc?) always used one with his Tele.
May be the house one you were using needed some TLC.Last edited by garybaldy; 04-22-2025 at 05:40 AM.
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I have the Award Session Preamp pedal from the 1990's gathering dust on my shelf. (A truly terrible sound, why did I buy it? it seemed a good idea at the time for Rock, I knew no better. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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I might convert it to a clean preamp by removing the terrible clipping diodes from the circuit.
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I have the Session Gordon Giltrap pre amp. Great for impedance matching piezos Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I have the Award Session Preamp pedal from the 1990's gathering dust on my shelf. (A truly terrible sound, why did I buy it? it seemed a good idea at the time for Rock, I knew no better.)
I might convert it to a clean preamp by removing the terrible clipping diodes from the circuit.
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Yes, that Gordon Giltrap model is for acoustic guitars, so no terrible distortion diode clipping. I believe the preamp pedal circuit is the same preamp circuit as the Session 75. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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I don't find myself using the gain side of the sessionette. I think a really bad gain is on a Musicman 65 RP which is my regular rock gigging amp! With minimal gain (it has only one channel) it's gorgeous. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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ps According the the blurb the GG pre amp will handle, amongst others, the Double Bass. I've tried it and it does! Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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I just plugged my 'Award Session Preamp' into my Alto active speaker, compared with most modern preamp pedals, the 'Award Session Preamp' I have does not sound very good to my ears. Originally Posted by garybaldy
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The post you replied to was about the Gordon Giltrap pre amp! Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I just plugged my 'Award Session Preamp' into my Alto active speaker, compared with most modern preamp pedals, the 'Award Session Preamp' I have does not sound very good to my ears.
Also, no need for apologies!
Ever tried the Jerry Donahue pre amp? I haven’t.
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Originally Posted by garybaldy
I've not tried the Jerry Donahue 'Award Session Preamp', but looking at the schematics, they all seem to have a very similar preamp design. Originally Posted by garybaldy
Award Session. Session amps, ClearTone Cables, BluesBaby, Sessionette, RetroTone
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With that, I'll assume the bulk of the issue on your side was having an open back cab, or not cranking the amp (which may not be appropriate for your gig). As others have mentioned, closed back cabs direct more sound energy forward. Open back cabs work great on stages in clubs/bars where there is a back wall to reflect some of the sound going out the back of the amp. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
When I gig on bass, I make sure I have about 10x the watts of the guitar player. So, if they are using a Deluxe Reverb, I'll make sure I have 250 watts through either 1x12 or 2x10 (closed back). Working backwards from that, if the bass player was using 60 watts, I think a good 12 watt guitar amp through a reasonably efficient closed back cab with 1x12 or 2x10 would cover the gig, but of course, more watts can never hurt.
This is a great discussion - thanks for kicking it off!
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Of course, my amp being tube-driven is open back with nothing to reflect off. Originally Posted by GuitarJay
Would a more efficient speaker deliver more usable volume in this situation? This might be less expensive than a new amp. My Champ 12 has a 12" Ted Weber Alnico speaker.Last edited by charleyrich99; 04-22-2025 at 05:11 PM.
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I can't imagine any 12W amp with any speaker that could fill a truly open outdoor space with clean jazz tone. I don't recall ever seeing any sensitivity specs for Weber speakers. But in the unlikely event that there's a 12" that would deliver a truly whopping 6 dB more sensitivity (which is usually measured with a 1 kHz tone at 1 W at 1 meter), it wouldn't translate into a full range SPL boost of 6 dB. You might be a bit more audible a bit further away, but I doubt that you'd get enough volume to sound right beyond 15 to 20 feet directly in front of the amp. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
You can't get a quart out of a pint bottle.
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"How many watts needed for an outdoor gig?"
Only one if you're the Rolling Stones = Charlie.
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I am very familar with the website but not good on understanding circuit diagrams. My 80s 75 is retrotoned, I also have a 90s 75 and I have bought quite a few Cleartone cables over the years. They are great. I wish they were still available. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I've not tried the Jerry Donahue 'Award Session Preamp', but looking at the schematics, they all seem to have a very similar preamp design.
Award Session. Session amps, ClearTone Cables, BluesBaby, Sessionette, RetroTone
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More speakers may be better than a more efficient speaker in terms of generating usable volume. Of course, you have to make sure the impedances are OK, etc. I have a Victoria amp that is 18 watts going through a 3x10 speaker configuration and it creates a lot of sound, even as it's open backed. Originally Posted by charleyrich99
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