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That’s kinda my point. I don’t think there’s anything to upgrade to. Maybe just cut P90s into another Broadway that hasn’t been knocked over a dozen times.
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02-25-2025 11:59 PM
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The heavy strings could have cracked the Epi. That happened to me. Might want to consider a higher quality guitar.
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That’s not very likely. I haven’t seen or heard of that in any guitar made in the last 75 years except cheap (like under $100) entry level flattops with no truss rod that were bought for young students. Any recent Epiphone archtop with no build defects should be able to hold itself together with 13-52s or even heavier. If the board extension has lifted or the neck has shifted to raise the end of the board, the direction of movement would oppose string pull.
Originally Posted by Al Haig
The heavy strings could have cracked the Epi. That happened to me. Might want to consider a higher quality guitar.
The area of apparent separation is between the fingerboard extension and the top. He didn’t include the heel in those pics. But it looks like the poly coating is broken only at the top of the neck join, suggesting that the neck would be rotated with headstock down, pivoting around the heel. If string pull loosened the neck, the separation would start at the heel.
If that’s actual separation shown in those pictures, my bet is that it’s either a botched old repair, faulty factory assembly or the guitar suffered a blow at some time in the past. A backwards fall from upright in a stand or case could do this. Heavy strings can cause sinking (and even cracking) of a weak arched top. But they won’t lift the end of the fingerboard - they’ll sink it.Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 02-26-2025 at 09:56 AM.
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At any rate, I'll get it to a luthier before it becomes totally unplayable. I do have a G&L ASAT in my closet I could use to get by, but an archtop, like an upright bass, a horn player and dressing up, helps my band visually be a jazz band.
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Knocked over a dozen times? Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Well....
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So I wouldn’t fret over those divots at this point. Originally Posted by wintermoon
As for this…
What would you call these guys, Allan - a Nirvana tribute band? Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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In all my years of playing I've never knocked a guitar over, knock on wood
. How did you manage to do it a dozen times to only one??
I don't think a luthier's going to be able to properly fix that w out resetting the neck which will probably cost about what the guitar is worth.
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I could say that until a few months ago. After practicing, I put my Ibanez on the stand I'd been using at home for many years. I didn't notice that the fitting holding one of the legs up and out was worn to the point of letting go. When I let go of the neck, it fell forward. The only damage was to the pickup surround, which is wood on an AF207. It broke on one end, leaving me with one large fragment and small pieces from the rest of the gap. Originally Posted by wintermoon
In all my years of playing I've never knocked a guitar over, knock on wood.
These surrounds are not a standard size, although they mount standard 7 string humbuckers. There are none available on the web, and Ibanez /Hoshino came through for me like they always do when I try to get info or buy parts - they ignore any and all communication. A luthier advertises on Etsy that he'll make wood surrounds for any pickup, and his Etsy page shows piles of wooden humbucker surrounds - so I emailed him. His response was rude and nasty: "Find a local woodworker to make you one."
So I fixd it myself. I cut off and trimmed the ends of one of the original cheap plastic surrounds that came on my Epi LP7, fitted and glued them into mine, then fitted and glued the usable fragment back in place. I filled the remaining gaps with a sawdust / CA mix, shaped it and finished it with a furniture touchup stick. It still needs a bit more color after the touchup dried completely. But it came out pretty well.
Here it is before filling the remaining cracks and gaps with a thinner dust/CA mix.
And here it is back on the guitar. I'll touch up that lighter area when I get around to it.
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Once in what, 60 some yrs? Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I could say that until a few months ago. After practicing, I put my Ibanez on the stand I'd been using at home for many years. I didn't notice that the fitting holding one of the legs up and out was worn to the point of letting go. When I let go of the neck, it fell forward. The only damage was to the pickup surround, which is wood on an AF207. It broke on one end, leaving me with one large fragment and small pieces from the rest of the gap.
These surrounds are not a standard size, although they mount standard 7 string humbuckers. There are none available on the web, and Ibanez /Hoshino came through for me like they always do when I try to get info or buy parts - they ignore any and all communication. A luthier advertises on Etsy that he'll make wood surrounds for any pickup, and his Etsy page shows piles of wooden humbucker surrounds - so I emailed him. His response was rude and nasty: "Find a local woodworker to make you one."
So I fixd it myself. I trimmed one of the original cheap plastic surrounds that came on my Epi LP7, fitted and glued it into mine, then fitted and glued the usable fragment back in place. I filled the remaining gaps with a sawdust / CA mix, shaped it and finished it with a furniture touchup stick.
That's a darned good average. I haven't had a stand fail but that's not carelessness and doesn't count imo.
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I started playing in 1954. My first stand was the Hamilton with which we all started. I used it for many years and still have it. Originally Posted by wintermoon
I do think this fall was my fault. Mechanical things wear and fail, and it's wise to check everything periodically. I'm usually pretty good about that, but I took my stands for granted. I won't make that mistake again. After you posted, I added a pic of the finished ring on the guitar. I still have to darken it a bit in one obvious spot, but it's a good repair and I'm happy with it.
One other thing we can learn from this is how good a guy Kent Armstrong is. Before I fixed this, I called him to see if he might have any oversized surrounds, knowing that his pickups use a 3 screw mount and that I'd have to buy one to use his surround. I sent him the dimensions of my surround and he didn't have one big enough. But he sent me his standard 7 string surround to play with, in the hope that I'd find a way to adapt it.
Next time I change strings, I'll make a mold of the wood ring, thin the ends of Kent's rubber surround, and try to embed it in fresh modeling rubber in the mold. Then I hope to be able to make a mold of that one, smooth the junctions in the mold, and make new surrounds in it with modeling rubber. If it works, I can put holes in one for a standard 2 screw mount and in another for a KA 3 screw mount. If it works, I'm buying a 14 pole from him just because he went way out of his way to try to help me.
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Well, lots of reasons. Originally Posted by wintermoon
In all my years of playing I've never knocked a guitar over, knock on wood. How did you manage to do it a dozen times to only one??
I don't think a luthier's going to be able to properly fix that w out resetting the neck which will probably cost about what the guitar is worth.
I don't own a guitar stand
I have a $500 guitar paired with an "it's a tool" mindset
I have 2 80lb dogs
I have 2 young boys
I gig, so when my guitar is out it's always in danger of some drunk stumbling over it
Most of these reasons are also why a $10,000 L5 isn't the guitar for me. I know who I am and how I treat things. I might buy a stand if I got an L5...
Oh, I forgot the biggest point, it's got cracks in the top probably from shipping trauma. So right from the start I was like, "no need to baby this one, it'll fall apart sooner than later."
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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I use a guitar stand generally similar to this one. Works great. Small enough to fit in my rolling briefcase. Easier to deal with than a stand with the usual folding legs.
But, I've still had one or two fall-overs.
Worst was dislodging a tuner on an L5S. I filled the hole with toothpicks and Elmer's glue and then screwed the tuner back in. Worked great and is invisible.
Amazon.com
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You haven't heard of that? When I literally posted and you quoted how I experienced that exact same thing? His guitar is cracked in 3 places. My opinion is this happened because of the 13s on it, just like what happened to me. I don't think he should be investing in another Epi or spending any more money on the current one. If he wants to be frugal he can get a solid body that won't break and then spend for a nicer hollow body. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I go out of my way to take care of my stuff no matter how much it costs, probably how I was brought up. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
It's the take care of your tools and they'll take care of you mindset.
But that's where the ymmv thing comes in, so if you don't mind broken stuff then that's yo biz.
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Originally Posted by wintermoon
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I quoted what you said so it would be clear to what I was responding. I’ve never heard of or seen a guitar made since I was born that developed the kind of damage that AllanAllen’s pictures show because of heavy strings - and you’re not describing that either. Originally Posted by Al Haig
I said that an occasional top crack can develop from very heavy strings, but that’s not what AA was concerned about. But the guitars I’ve seen that had this were not kept humidified and it looked to me like the cracks were from temp & humidity changes, not heavy strings.
I’ve used heavy strings (13+ to 56+) for over 65 years. For the last 30 or so, they were above a 75 thou 7th string. Not one of the 20 or so archtops I’ve had developed any string related problems.
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That's what it looks like to me - I experienced that exact same thing with a Dot in the 10s. Unless he specifically remembers those cracks upon arrival (then why didn't he return it for a new one) or after a knock over. I wouldn't spend more $$ on that guitar or buy another Epi..
Last edited by Al Haig; 02-26-2025 at 03:59 PM.
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If you gig with guitars, they will not remain pristeen. Tight bandstands, careless musicians and patrons ( not to mention unruly children) can cause damage no matter how careful you try to be.. It is a minefield out there.
I once had a careless drummer dragging his cart behind him knock over an L-5. I yelled at him just before it happened and he gave me a stupid look (that cat ain't the brightest bulb in the lamp) and he proceeded to put a bunch of dings in that L-5. At least it didn't get a broken headstock!
I care for my gear as best as I can no matter it's value (Like WM, I was raised that way). One day, Howard Alden came to my house and after a few hours of jamming (that was fun!) he rested his Benedetto up against a rocking chair. I rushed to get a guitar stand for it. I presume that Bob Benedetto gave that guitar to Howard. That incident reminds me of the old saying "easily acquired, lightly regarded".
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Sure is! A drummer did a header into my Ibanez AF207 about a year ago trying to get behind his kit. He knocked it off the stand, but I was able to catch it because I saw his unsteadiness as he walked past me on stage. When he started to go down, I pushed him toward the drums and away from my guitar (which was on a very solid stand). He knocked the guitar and stand sideways and the top of the guitar rubbed against the low mic stand in front of my amp before I could get my hand around the neck (which I sucessfully did before it fell over). Fortunately, I was able to polish out the mark with Virtuoso. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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I take good care of all of my guitars, regardless of their value. They are tools. Don't people take care of their tools?
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Most of guitar damage stories speak of a stand.
I won't own a stand, won't use one if provided.
Not at home, my guitar experiences two states;
- in my hands (while performing)
- inside of the secured hard case
(so before, all set breaks, after)
Good thing I didn't chose drums.Last edited by pauln; 02-26-2025 at 11:00 PM.
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When I gigged with a big jazz band of 18 pieces, I had my case right next to me. The guitar was in my hand or the case. The director did not like it, and I said it is my way or find another guitarist. Guitar is in the case or my hands that is the way to go. I might add I have a gait and balance issue so getting up and moving around fast is not good. I am not disabled can walk, ride a bike, and generally do what I want but not always steady when I first stand up.
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AA: If you like that guitar and the way you have it, you could take it to a luthier and have him glue the cracks, work on the frets, and tune your set up. The guitar is basically glued together anyway, if he were to glue the cracks, it would probably settle that way. Sometimes luthiers repair completely broken off headstocks.
If it were me, I would take that money that you'd spend working on the Epi and get a solid body going that's set up for jazz. Then save for a higher quality hollow body. As Nshsi says, it's not a common problem and a decent quality hollow body wouldn't run into that problem down the road and would be fine if you just take care of it a litte. (And get a stand!)
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I‘ll let the luthier recommend replacement.
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