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I'm debating whether to get an oval hole or f hole archtop - Anybody has comments on the differences between them? Primarily the axe will be used for solo fingerstyle arrangements
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06-07-2010 03:34 PM
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From a purely resale standpoint, you will get less for a round/oval hole, as they tend to be in the minority demandwise. There was a recent Campellone oval hole available that went for considerably less than his traditional F hole version. Same basic guitar.
Not sure about the sound difference. Would be a cool experiment to have 2 of the same model with the different holes to compare.
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Originally Posted by gardano
Some famous oval hole players are Howard Roberts and Howard Alden. Pat Martino played one for a while as well.
I prefer an oval hole guitar and had 2 commisioned for me. I also had a Howard Robert's model that I wore grooves into the fingerboard on.
The HR is the same as a ES175 but to me sounded much much better both unplugged an plugged. I even got compliments on the tone from solid body players and even a few drummers
There are a few forum members that prefer them.
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Hey guys thanks for the feedback! That Andersen looks cool and like it has a great sound.
Hey someone said that he had commissioned 2. Which luthier? Who makes the best killer oval hole archtops?
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Yeah, I've heard about the lesser value for oval hole archtops. Originally Posted by derek
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So what made you choose oval archtops? Who are luthiers that make killer ones? Originally Posted by JohnW400
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When I was 16 I saw a sunburst Howard Roberts hanging up in a shop and I thought it was hot. It sounded great. I did't have the money at the time. Then when I finally was able to buy one, they stopped making them. Originally Posted by gardano
On day I found someone that had not one but 2 wine red Howard Roberts. I bought one and just played it until there were grooves in the fingerboard.
I then got the ide to have one built. The first one was built by a Vinny Colletti. I saw a picture of one of his archtop and asked if he could make an oval hole model. He made me a nice guitar. But he is a relative 'newcomer' and there are some issues (like a little sloppy gluework by the neck)
Then I had one built by Mark Campellone. I cannot say enough good things about this guitar. Mark does excellent work. I highly recommend him
There are many excellent builders out there. The first question is how much do you want to spend? Mark can build you an oval hole based on his standard model for under $4500 using solid wood.
In this price range Heritage may also fit the bill (but not as well as Mark)
Other luthiers I would recommend are Bill Comins, John Buscarino and Dale Unger. I have seen guitars by these builders and they are truly excellent guitars. However they're probably in the 8,000-10,000 range.
If moneys is not an issue, then Benedetto or Monteleone could make one for you.
FYI there is an oval hole Koontz model from the '70's available at Guitars and Jazz in Summit NJ. I know several players who played Koontz guitars. Pat Martino played one as well as Harry Leahey and Vic Cenicola.
These guitars were ahead of their time with features like closable f-holes to eliminate feedback. I think the asking price is $14000
http://www.gbase.com/powered/gearlis...earchbar=False
Scroll down to the end and you'll see a heritage and the Koontz
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That Heritage must have been a custom job, or did they once have an oval-hole model?
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
Not that I'm aware of.
I custom ordered an Eagle with a floater back in 93 and an oval hole was not even an option at that time.
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Hey thanks for the info. Great story too! I'm going to check out the luthiers. I had a Comins for a little while and it sounded great. Playibility was not to my taste but it was a great sounding box. I saw the Koontz but these are prices for collectors. The $4500 range is where I'm at. Originally Posted by JohnW400
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I've owned a bunch of round-hole and oval-hole archtops over the years (in addition to f-hole archtops). Generally, they tend to have more sustain than f-hole archtops. The tone, generally, can be characterized by more lower-mids and less top-edge to the tone.
I've owned:
ca 1929 Gibson round-hole L-4 in birch: Beat w/ thin top & wide bridge. Smokin' guitar! My best friend bought it off me in 1990 and still has it.
ca 1936 Gibson round-hole L-75 in mahogany: Dead mint w/ thick top. Dead-sounding instrument. Bummah -- gone in a month.
ca 2005 Washburn oval-hole ply guitar. No top bracing! Eye candy and dirt cheap to boot. Sounded surprisingly OK. Sold to fund in part
ca 2008 Eastman oval-hole in mahogany. Nice enough -- great looker -- but not particularly distinguished tonally. Gone to fund
ca 1936 Gibson round-hole L-75 in mahogany -- well-used, thin top, thin bridge. My current instrument and conceivably my last ever. I am lucky to own this guitar
I prefer the round-hole to the oval-hole. The round has "more" of the tonal qualities I enjoy. As an extra bonus it takes both floating-style jazz pickups and soundhole-style flat-top pickups, which opens up many choices. Note that L-75s have a lower fingerboard overstand than the standard L-4 / ES-175 so you will need a "thin" floating pickup if, like me, that is what you seek.
These guitars are solid bargains on the vintage market but as with all handmade instruments your best advice is to play before you pay. As my experiences reflect, there are winners and losers even within the same model and period.
Hope this helps.
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Sure did. Now one more thing to consider, round hole vs. oval hole. Looks like you've got lots of experience and done a lot of leg work on this. Originally Posted by Les Gear
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What's the difference? Oval hole guitars are a little harder to come by, so I hadn't had a chance to do a side-by-side comparison on my own.
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Oh heck, I'll bite. I have owned a few of each. I currently own an Eastman AR-904C oval, a custom Forshage oval, and vintage L-5 and L-12 Gibsons.
It can't be totally generalized of course, but the basic flavor of an oval hole is to have somewhat wider dynamic range in terms of frequency response. There are a bit more highs and lows, and the midrange can be a bit less prevalent. They do sound a bit more like a flattop guitar, and can be coaxed a bit more readily into playing "strummy" stuff.
F-hole guitars usually have a bit less sustain and more punchy midrange, by contrast.
Again, this is a total generalization, and generalizations don't hold true even close to all the time.
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I am very curious on trying a oval hole too.... just tried to buy this guitar the price was very low, but it had sold one day before.... bummer....
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@fws6
What did it go for?
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Not much for an early Benedetto. Asking price was 898,000 so I think it went for somethin like 800 grand....
Japanese Yen that is
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I agree with the above analysis--ovals (well, at least my oval) have more of a higher-end, brighter sound.
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More bright ? Benedetto s own archtop books says that round holes have a nice midrange, but typically lack balance and volume in the high register ? That contradicts a bit with what you say ....
Then again, it also contradicts with him building one.
I thought it was a nice guitar though, would have bought it but as sais it had just sold
800 grand btw translates to about 10k US$ which is a lot of money; but doesnt seem too much for a handmade Benedetto if you compare to the asking prices of his other guitars of that era
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Well, I have a Gibson Howard Roberts Custom, and to me it does sound brighter than my other guitars. I mean that in a good way--makes it unique. Not comparing to that Benedetto, which I'm sure is a wonderful instrument. Originally Posted by fws6
More bright ? Benedetto s own archtop books says that round holes have a nice midrange, but typically lack balance and volume in the high register ? That contradicts a bit with what you say ....
Then again, it also contradicts with him building one.
I thought it was a nice guitar though, would have bought it but as sais it had just sold
800 grand btw translates to about 10k US$ which is a lot of money; but doesnt seem too much for a handmade Benedetto if you compare to the asking prices of his other guitars of that era
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Yes, I also disagree with the honorable Mr. Benedetto. I have a number of videos with my Gibson L-12 and Eastman 904 that you can find via the YouTube link on my sig. They are recorded well even though constrained by the YouTube audio compression... but maybe they will help a little.
My 904 is a particularly nice sounding guitar. I selected it from a room full of Eastmen at Guitars 'N Jazz in New Jersey. It is very open sounding, much like a flattop at times.
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just checked rpguitar's youtube clip....
though it is only 4 chords on each of the guitars it illustrates the tonal differences well
so...........how much for the L5 ?
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It's like 9600 based on today's exchange . I had to know Originally Posted by fws6
More bright ? Benedetto s own archtop books says that round holes have a nice midrange, but typically lack balance and volume in the high register ? That contradicts a bit with what you say ....
Then again, it also contradicts with him building one.
I thought it was a nice guitar though, would have bought it but as sais it had just sold
800 grand btw translates to about 10k US$ which is a lot of money; but doesnt seem too much for a handmade Benedetto if you compare to the asking prices of his other guitars of that era being an oval hole kind of guy.
That is quite reasonable for a Benedetto regardless.
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I don't have any experience with oval hole archtops, but there is a gorgeous Benedetto 16-B for sale ... only $12,800 (...only)
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But "Bob's boutique" instruments are not made by Bob himself, right ... ?
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