Oval Hole vs F-Hole Differences

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Don't choose!

[Nuff Said]

The Halfling is built sort of half as an archtop and half as a flattop....

Yes, I know, that is one of the reason why I want one.
Nuff

[Wjguitar]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3&l=961c8bff0a


https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3&l=bc10d77eb2

[JohnW400]

Nice to see some Jersey boys in the video like Lou Pallo and Tom Doyle.

[Wjguitar]

Hey John,

I too, am from NJ. Lived there most of my life. Grew up in the Caldwells, and lived in Tewksbury Township for many years, too. Moved to NM in 2002. I studied Jazz with Sandy DeVito, Eddie Berg, Gary Keller and Vic Cenicola and briefly on classical with Carol Hammersma. I met Vic through Sam Koontz. I learned thumbpicking (Atkins/Travis) techniques in Nashville from Thom Bresh and the late Marcel Dadi, and then later picked up the rumba flamenca styling from Ruben and Miguel Romero and the Gipsy Kings. Put em all together and dubbed my style "Jazzamenco" tm ..."The New Sound of Santa Fe".

I toured also as a drummer with Les Paul in 1979-80 and though I'd met Tom Doyle earlier and he worked on my guitars, Les was my real connection with Tom Doyle and Lou Pallo. I later performed and recorded with Nokie Edwards (The Ventures) and performed a show with Mason Williams in Nashville, and opened for Acoustic Alchemy in Santa Fe, NM.

My primary interest was always jazz and archtop guitars. So at a very early age, I began collecting top of the line archtops, including D'Angelico's, Strombergs, Benedetto, NY Epiphone's, Gibson's, etc. Having been one of the early guitar collectors in the U.S., I began collecting way before it became fashionable to do so, and the instruments were still affordable.

I spent most of my life working in the electronic industrial scale businesses, having served 14 years as President of Johnson Scale Co., West Caldwell, NJ and President, Chairman/CEO of Pennsylvania Scale Co., Leola, PA. Upon selling my interest in Josco to my brother following my divorce, and following the sale of Pasco, I retired to NM in 2002, to pursue my music full time. Up until that point it was always a hobby. I now teach at SFCC and perform regularly.

I've released over 5 albums as a soloist with friends, and a few with my former musical partner, the late flamenco/classical guitarist, Ruben Romero. We have sold over 80,000 cds to date, globally and our music appears on "Roswell," "Malcolm in the Middle,""Discovery Channel", "Outward Bound," "MTV's Made," and "The Weather Channel." Our music is also in rotation on most all of the major Internet Smooth Jazz Radio Stations at this time. "Hypnotic Safari" and "Canciones del alma" (Songs from the Soul) are the most popular.

"Summertime in Santa Fe" project was a dream of mine...to take top notch guitar friends of mine and have them all perform together on my arched top guitars. I brought the gang out to Santa Fe to record, and each selected the instrument they wished to record with in the project. The video demonstrates the talent of each of the players, and the acoustic tone of the guitars....All of the guitars were mic'd and not electric....the video is a raw acoustic mix...no mixing has been done. The final album release will be mixed and mastered of course, to bring out the best of each performance. The album should be released sometime later this year.

Wayne

[JohnW400]

Wayne,

I know Vic Cenicola. We did a few gigs together and we taught at the same studio in Midland Park. I remember having conversations with him about his and your Koontz guitars. (I studied with Harry Leahey at WPC.).

I always dug the oval hole guitar. I always regretted opting for the Les Paul Recording model (Which I sold to Lou P) instead of getting the Howard Roberts that was hanging on the wall at Muscara's back in 74 or so.

Take care.

[Wjguitar]

Yes, John... When I took delivery on my Koontz "Oval-F / Personal" model, I asked Sam who he recommended as a teacher. He suggested Harry & Vic. I met Harry while he was on the road with Phil Woods, in Chicago...We chatted and I was going to make arrangements to study with him. Unfortunately, he passed away before I had the chance. I contacted Vic and studied with him for a while at his home in Hackensack. He and I became good friends, and often jammed together on many of his gigs. Jimmy D'Angelis used to come around occasionally, too. I haven't seen Vic in about 10 years. He wrote a tune called "Segovia's Dream" which I recorded...one of my favorite Vic Cenicola tunes. Here's a link to it if you're interested.

Wayne Wesley Johnson - ReverbNation

Wayne Wesley Johnson - ReverbNation

Regards, Wayne

[Tomasito]

Try an Ibanez AE300TV from 1990. Sounds crazy, I know. Ibanez does not have much of a reputation, but hearing is believing. I have been playing for several decades and have tried plenty of oval and f-hole guitars. Somehow this one hits the spot for me. Never seen any others with the same oval configuration, or unique and subtle sound quality.

[ChrisDowning]

This was an interesting topic, but nobody really discussed the issues behind F hole v Round hole. The shape of the hole wouldn't really matter that much, but the background is interesting.

F hole guitars are close cousins to cellos. Easteren European instrument makers who arrived in the USA took a new approach to the guitar - strutting it like a cello and putting F holes in the front, carving the back and front from spruce - all the things they knew how to do well from their experience with cellos, violins, and violas. The birth of the carved top F hole guitar.

Move on a couple of decades or so and we run into possibility of making ply with maleable glues that when heated can be reshaped - lot of strange bendy ply furniture became fashionable at this time - but we got an alternative to the carved top - the moulded ply top and back - as on the ES175 circa 1949. So now we have two sorts of F hole guitars with quite different sound characteristics.

Lastly the old traditional spanish style guitar that can be traced back to the viol and lute. Easy to make with its flat front and back and bracing that was developed over a couple of centuries. Big steps foward with the new bracing by Martin for steel strung, and some Spanish builders for the nylon classical. But all essentially a cedar or spruce braced flat top with a traditional round hole. A sophisticated box with a hole.

So the question might have be rephrased into "Which is better for jazz - carved top, moulded ply top, or braced flat top?"

[Vladan]

Respectfully submitted...Wayne Wesley Johnson

Great to see $100K worth of guitars, and $xM worth of studio (and a bass) for tune played like this. I mean, I like it, especialy where it's more blues, less where it border on gypsy. I can't stand gypsy jazz. Genre is such a waste of talented palyers.

Summa summarum - great!

One more thing, I do not understand "not mixed". It's obviously mixed, many chanels to stereo. I can hear reverb, but ok, that may be live acoustic space. I think everything was compressed at least a little bit. You did not paly all at once? Or did you?
What does it really mean "not mixed"? For me, it does not take from quality if something was mixed, processed and edited, to death. In the end. it's not about how it was chieved, but what's there for us to hear.

[vsaumarez]

There's some luthiers that frequent the Acoustic Guitar Magazine forum. You could ask there for a scientific explanation. I have an Eastman oval hole archtop, which is a wonderful guitar but since it's a heavy wood, I'm not sure having an oval hole makes a huge difference to sonority, or volume. It may change some of the characteristics and direction of sound, but if it doesn't make a huge difference a good question to ask is why flat tops don't have 'f' holes. I saw a Howard Roberts for sale on craislist in Hawaii recently. Howard Alden also used to play an oval hole. Then the gypsy guitars have two different holes, one big and one small, the latter appropriately called 'petite bouche' (little mouth). I'm always romantically drawn to oval holes, because I prefer acoustic to electric playing, but they are very hard to come by, and usually only luthiers make them, which makes them expensive.

[ChrisDowning]

The Howard Roberts is the one you want (or a copy of it). I agree that there's something vanacular about round holes - maybe its the Django effect? I've seen guys doing jazz on Martin flat tops and there's something earthy and basic about it