The New Ibanez Pat Metheny PM3C Model

[nyc chaz]

Question for you all:

CME and Sweetwater are already sold out of the Natural finish, though each has the satin Black in stock. I wondered if that is a signal of what the resale market could be like down the road? I think the Black looks very attractive, especially with that tailpiece. But if they aren't selling as well when new, they may be harder to sell used later, too.

Thoughts?

Most people i have known do not find black archtop guitars attractive,me included.I would wait to buy the Natural finish one especially if thinking about reselling in the future.

[Mick-7]

Theres this guy Charlie Christian you should google him. This is essentially a copy of a copy of his guitar.

Probably not close though because Charlie's was solid carved high-quality spruce and not a cutaway.

Here's an interesting read on the subject -- Finding Charlie Christian's Gibson ES-250

[SoftwareGuy]

Question for you all:

CME and Sweetwater are already sold out of the Natural finish, though each has the satin Black in stock. I wondered if that is a signal of what the resale market could be like down the road? I think the Black looks very attractive, especially with that tailpiece. But if they aren't selling as well when new, they may be harder to sell used later, too.

Thoughts?

I didn't have a lot to say in this thread, but I like black guitars. I can't say about resale value because who knows what the future aesthetic will be.

If you like the guitar and think black is cool, go for it.

[Cunamara]

If a higher pickup DCR reduces treble, can you not make a ceramic sound like an alnico just by using the appropriate DCR on each?
Probably the magnet strength of each type of pickup may produce a different comparable volume but couldn't that be tweaked as well?

According to the writings of Bill Lawrence, yes. If one has an understanding of magnetic circuits.

[Cunamara]

Probably not close though because Charlie's was solid carved high-quality spruce and not a cutaway.

Here's an interesting read on the subject -- Finding Charlie Christian's Gibson ES-250

I think the ES-150, which Charlie Christian used for most of his brief career, was a laminated guitar; the ES 250, IIRC, had a solid spruce top although I don't remember if it was carved or pressed. It was a much more expensive guitar. The PM3C seems like it is more of a copy of the ES-150 than the 250, although I think that Pat's Daniel Slaman guitar is more like the ES-250.

[garybaldy]

I think the ES-150, which Charlie Christian used for most of his brief career, was a laminated guitar; the ES 250, IIRC, had a solid spruce top although I don't remember if it was carved or pressed. It was a much more expensive guitar.

I guess a $100 more! but I wouldn't put money on it.

[Fred Archtop]

I think the ES-150, which Charlie Christian used for most of his brief career, was a laminated guitar; the ES 250, IIRC, had a solid spruce top although I don't remember if it was carved or pressed. It was a much more expensive guitar. The PM3C seems like it is more of a copy of the ES-150 than the 250, although I think that Pat's Daniel Slaman guitar is more like the ES-250.

Prewar ES-150 had carved spruce top and solid back and rims. ES-250 tops were also carved, backs being carved or solid if I recall correctly.

The PM3C is structurally very different and will sound its own way. The new PM3C reminds me the story of the 175CCs that were released in the ‘78-‘80 period. Gibson said it was going to sound like the original ES-150. In real life no way because they were structurally very different. A 175CC has its own sound, main difference for my ears being the natural sustain of a note, way more pronounced with the prewar model. The PU, although looking the same has a much different tone.

A friend of mine as just ordered a PM3C. When he lend it to me I’ll do a video comparing it with my prewar ES-150 and my Slaman 250.

For those of you interested, here is a new video from Daniel Slaman demoing his guitar that has inspired the PM3C. I'm sure the PM3C will be a completly different beast.

Cheers.

[arnie65]

FYI, the Japanese company Westville has been making their version of what they call the "Metheny Tribute" guitar for some years now. (Not sure if Pat has any affiliation with them) If you like the tone on this one, Kent Armstrong makes all their pickups, including the one for this guitar. I was recently having a conversation with Kent about the CC pickup on this guitar. I really like the tone on this guitar.

PS. Just found this on their website: "Westville's owner and designer Masaki Nishimura has been deeply influenced by the work of Pat ever since he was a student and in 2016 after meeting Pat in person the the Blue Note Jazz Club in Tokyo, Japan, he started work on the model with close input from Pat himself"


Cheers,
Arnie.

[AllanAllen]

$4,500 for that Westville.

[arnie65]

$4,500 for that Westville.

Steep price, but these guitars are not mass produced, they are built by hand in a small shop in Japan under Masaki Nishimura's supervision. I don't have any affiliation with them, nor I own any of their instruments, but if players like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Yotam Silverstein, Lage Lund, and Hristo Vitchev are playing them, (among others) they can't be bad. Hristo is a monster player, and a teacher of teachers... In addition, if Pat was involved in the design of his tribute guitar, the builder has to be top notch...




Cheers,
Arnie.

[Bluedawg]

$4,500 for that Westville.

Would love to have one.

But I can buy a used 175 and a toothbrush for less than that.

[AllanAllen]

Steep price, but these guitars are not mass produced, they are built by hand in a small shop in Japan under Masaki Nishimura's supervision. I don't have any affiliation with them, nor I own any of their instruments, but if players like Kurt Rosenwinkel, Yotam Silverstein, Lage Lund, and Hristo Vitchev are playing them, they can't be bad. Hristo is a monster player, and a teacher of teachers... In addition, if Pat was involved in the design of his tribute guitar, the builder has to be top notch...



Cheers,
Arnie.

Yeah, it looks super cool too. I can see that it's made to a higher level from the details like inlays on the knobs. I think it's worth mentioning that it's an apple to premium apple comparison.

[Brian859]

And still not a single demo video or mp3 posted that I can find. That seems unusual. Sweetwater is sold out of the natural. I think that was the case elsewhere too.

[chris99]

Finally!!

[Cunamara]

^ nice to see at least something of a review and to hear the guitar, but it would've been nice if he would have played with the knobs a little bit to show the range of tone available with the instrument. What does it sound like with the tone not full up (assuming that it was)? Well, it is a start; I am sure more reviews will follow. thanks for finding this one, chris99,

[Fred Archtop]

^ nice to see at least something of a review and to hear the guitar, but it would've been nice if he would have played with the knobs a little bit to show the range of tone available with the instrument. What does it sound like with the tone not full up (assuming that it was)? Well, it is a start; I am sure more reviews will follow. thanks for finding this one, chris99,

Indeed. Way too much treble for my ears but it's probably due to the tone knob adjustment. Also, the amp sounds more adequate for country than jazz. It certainly deserves a better demo. Thanks anyway for sharing.

Best and take care.

[Herbie]

EDIT: Thanks for the link!

[Nohhyuk]

Finally!!

Thank you for posting! Man, that’s a tinny sound with a lot of buzzing. Not quite what I was expecting!

[chris99]

I can confirm that the trebly sound in the video is a product of having both the volume and tone knobs all the way up. I have my PRRI volume at 4.5 (T:3, B:3), and I turn back the volume and tone knobs about 1/3-1/2 and it sounds very warm and woody. I like controlling the brightness with the volume knob so I intentionally set the the amp volume high to compensate.

The video only captures a one-dimensional view of the guitar. It is easy to shape the tone you want with both knobs.

Chris

[AllanAllen]

It’s also drenched in delay and reverb. Almost like it’s a pedal demo, not a guitar demo.

[Archie]

imo that slimmed down D'Aquisto style body, will sound too thin and trebly with that style of pickup, unless you use really heavy strings.

It's not an option I would go for personally.

[jim777]

Question for you all:

CME and Sweetwater are already sold out of the Natural finish, though each has the satin Black in stock. I wondered if that is a signal of what the resale market could be like down the road? I think the Black looks very attractive, especially with that tailpiece. But if they aren't selling as well when new, they may be harder to sell used later, too.

Thoughts?

Black would be my least favorite color for an archtop, by a large margin. But then, I do like red archtops, so take that into account But if natural or black were my choices and natural was temporarily unavailable, I would wait until they were back in stock. Just my $.02

[Doug B]

I didn't have a lot to say in this thread, but I like black guitars. I can't say about resale value because who knows what the future aesthetic will be.

If you like the guitar and think black is cool, go for it.

A black archtop goes well with a tuxedo!

[alpop]

Not wanting to spam the forum with my so-so playing, but I posted this video of my recently acquired PM3C in the Jeff Arnold #5 thread.

Posting it here as well in case it can help to give an idea of the guitar's sound to the curious.

I will say the guitar is very comfortable and easy to play.

I used a Behringer knock off of a 906e to mic a Quilter Aviator Cub. Mic plugged into an interface. Interface straight to an iphone with no EQing. I played through an inexpensive analog delay pedal set at 20ms and some amp reverb.

[Brian859]

That sounds really good. Sounds like a really good jazz tone to me. Thus far with a sample size of one each, the black one sounds much better than the natural, but its really early.