The New Ibanez Pat Metheny PM3C Model

[arnie65]

What kind of amp were you running into? I ask because CC pickups, in general, can definitely sound overly bright and sterile through modern solid state amps or brighter tube amps but the same pickup can come to life and sound great through a darker tube amp like a Gibson EH, Supro, etc... especially if it's being pushed hard enough to break up around the edges.

Fender Twin Reverb, and a Henriksen Bud 10

[pingu]

6.2 lbs.

great ! thanks

[gitman]

The tone of the Lollar CC I have in my Tele is VERY warm and sweet sounding - if I want it to sound bright I have to dime the treble on my amps, regardless whether it's a solid state or a tube model. Re the statement about ceramic magnet pickups : the pair of first run Joe Barden "Two-Tone" pups I once had in another Warmoth mongrel were very versatile and musical sounding units and it's not surprising that Steve Klein used these in most of his unique headless creations. Just listen to this clip with Mick Goodrick to get a taste ..... It's in the touch, man ....

[Mick-7]

Let me correct you my friend, according to me, the pickup IS NOT a selling point, it's a flaw.

Oh, I was referring to Ibanez, they are promoting the pick-up as a great feature, but you shot down that claim. So now many are probably thinking: "Why buy the guitar? I could just buy that type of pickup and put it in the guitar I have."

[Bflat233]

Oh, I was referring to Ibanez, they are promoting the pick-up as a great feature, but you shot down that claim. So now many are probably thinking: "Why buy the guitar? I could just buy that type of pickup and put it in the guitar I have."

Been there and done that ... but I think there is more to it. The pick-up is a unique feature, but I think many of Pat's fans have been waiting for years to see a fresh PM model of good quality at a reasonable price-point. And he's playing it on stage so there's a connection with the artist.

[arnie65]

The tone of the Lollar CC I have in my Tele is VERY warm and sweet sounding - if I want it to sound bright I have to dime the treble on my amps, regardless whether it's a solid state or a tube model. Re the statement about ceramic magnet pickups : the pair of first run Joe Barden "Two-Tone" pups I once had in another Warmoth mongrel were very versatile and musical sounding units and it's not surprising that Steve Klein used these in most of his unique headless creations. Just listen to this clip with Mick Goodrick to get a taste ..... It's in the touch, man ....

Maybe you're right, maybe it is a nice pickup, but I didn't bond with it. My point of reference is all the CC pickups I've had in Tele's which sounded full, fat, and warm, and all the clips I've heard on Youtube which sound better than this pickup, in my opinion. The guitar is a great guitar, and I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree with my opinion and keep the pickup. It's perfectly fine.

[arnie65]

I've revised my review, and removed the statement "get ready to dish out for a pickup" at the end; I believe it was an unfair assumption on my part, and not fair to Ibanez, or folks wanting to buy this wonderful instrument.



Cheers,
Arnie...

[chris99]

I also purchased the PM3c in natural amber about a week ago. It's a great guitar no doubt. The fretwork wasn't perfect on mine, but that likely will vary from guitar to guitar. A quick trip to a local guitar shop with a PLEK machine fixed that. It now plays and feels amazing. The CC pickup is very good to my ear. It's very sensitive to height adjustments and in particular, the tilt. The third screw adjusts the tilt of the pickup, and my ears seem to like the pickup tilted with the "north" side (closest to the neck) raised up. This gives it a warmer sound that I love. Definitely can tell it's a single coil pickup, but the airiness of the hollowbody helps to thicken the tone and give a nice "woody" sound. Not as fat as a neck humbucker, but definitely warmer than a standard single coil.

I play mine through a '65 PRRI amp (10" Celestion Gold speaker) with the volume and tone rolled back about 1/3 of the way. I have the amp volume on about 4.5, treble on 3, bass on 3. Sounds wonderful.

The guitar keeps in tune well. Truss rod appears to be a bit tight relative to some other guitars and is very sensitive. Minor turns have a large impact. It is lightweight, but feels nice to hold - it's a medium size guitar, smaller than my ES175 but very comfortable. The neck plays fast, but it took a little bit of getting used to because it is fairly thin relative to a chunkier Gibson style neck. The nut was cut well.

Nice to see a CC pickup on a production guitar. I think this one will be a hit with the jazz folks. It's the first time I've played a CC pickup and so far I like what I hear. I think I still prefer the sound of a humbucker and the "thunkiness" of my ES175, but this is a wonderful alternative for less than half the price. Quality guitar that is easily gig worthy. Will be staying in the collection for a long time!

[MikeTT]

How's the noise of the PU? Thanks!

[pingu]

also what country is the PM3
made in ?

[chris99]

It’s not super quiet, but comparable to other single coils I’ve played.

[chris99]

Guitar is made in Indonesia

[pingu]

Guitar is made in Indonesia

many thanks Chris

[arnie65]

FYI, the pickup is a bit noisy, as these type pu's often are; I don't think it will be an issue when playing live at all. However, recording is a different issue. I've read somewhere that Pat uses the Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger pedal when recording with it, with minimal loss/change of tone. Something to think about....



Cheers,
Arnie..

[coyote-1]

I’m a little bewildered by the configuration. Solid carved top… but with knobs, pickup with three screws mounted into-on that top? Might as well have a laminate top, as all that stuff will noticeably reduce the acoustic effect of the vibrating solid top.

[jazzshrink]

I’m a little bewildered by the configuration. Solid carved top… but with knobs, pickup with three screws mounted into-on that top? Might as well have a laminate top, as all that stuff will noticeably reduce the acoustic effect of the vibrating solid top.

Direct from Ibanez support:

Rob,

The PM3C has a laminated spruce top.

Tod

[Cunamara]

1. Let me correct you my friend, according to me, the pickup IS NOT a selling point, it's a flaw. I stated that "I founded to be bright, and sterile in my opinion". You and and/or most people may find it completely fine, tone is a subjective thing. Whether it is inferior or not, is for you to decide. Ceramic pickups are known to be bright. I'm sure Pat had to give the OK for this instruments to be launched to the public, (they carry his name) so maybe Pat didn't find the tone to be bright or sterile, or the pickup quality to be inferior.

The "bright ceramic pickup thing" as inherent to the magnet is kind of a myth. Many pickups with ceramic magnets are designed to be bright because, if your sound is going to go through a lot of distortion, you tend to want to have fewer lows, moderate meds and more prominent highs or you're just going to get mush. Those of us in the jazz world who tend to favor a clean tone might be less satisfied with a pickup design like that. However, I have used a number of Bill Lawrence/Wilde pickups with ceramic magnets that were full, fat, warm, good sounding pickups- but they were designed from the ground up to produce that frequency response using the ceramic magnet. The best sounding single coils I have ever used in a solidbody were Bill's Micro Coil Teles with ceramic magnets.

None of that, of course, contradicts that you didn't like the sound of that pickup in that guitar. I hope that the replacement is more satisfactory for you. It is a beautiful instrument and deserves to sound wonderful. If you can approximate the tone of the Slaman guitars on which it was based, you'll really have something... something that I might want to do myself. I'm already trying to figure out how to break the news to my wife.

I'm also thinking about amplification choice. My daily use amplifier is a clone of a Fender tweed Deluxe, which is not exactly a high fidelity amp like a Twin or a Henriksen. It is, however, fairly similar to the amps available at the time when Charlie Christian was recording with his ES-150- amps with a fair amount of bass and mids response, early break up, etc. it might suit the stock pickup fairly well. However, that is not the equipment Pat Metheny is using! And he famously uses the tone knob on the guitar rolled almost completely off. A Barnyard Junior in front of the amp might be a possible approach.

[ThatRhythmMan]

I’m a little bewildered by the configuration. Solid carved top… but with knobs, pickup with three screws mounted into-on that top? Might as well have a laminate top, as all that stuff will noticeably reduce the acoustic effect of the vibrating solid top.

As noted above, it has a laminated spruce top, not solid, carved. As far as the bewilderment goes, spend some time with a carved top guitar with a CC pickup like an original ES-150 or ES-250, and you might think differently. They definitely have their own “magic”.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[arnie65]

The "bright ceramic pickup thing" as inherent to the magnet is kind of a myth. Many pickups with ceramic magnets are designed to be bright because, if your sound is going to go through a lot of distortion, you tend to want to have fewer lows, moderate meds and more prominent highs or you're just going to get mush. Those of us in the jazz world who tend to favor a clean tone might be less satisfied with a pickup design like that. However, I have used a number of Bill Lawrence/Wilde pickups with ceramic magnets that were full, fat, warm, good sounding pickups- but they were designed from the ground up to produce that frequency response using the ceramic magnet. The best sounding single coils I have ever used in a solidbody were Bill's Micro Coil Teles with ceramic magnets.

None of that, of course, contradicts that you didn't like the sound of that pickup in that guitar. I hope that the replacement is more satisfactory for you. It is a beautiful instrument and deserves to sound wonderful. If you can approximate the tone of the Slaman guitars on which it was based, you'll really have something... something that I might want to do myself. I'm already trying to figure out how to break the news to my wife.

I'm also thinking about amplification choice. My daily use amplifier is a clone of a Fender tweed Deluxe, which is not exactly a high fidelity amp like a Twin or a Henriksen. It is, however, fairly similar to the amps available at the time when Charlie Christian was recording with his ES-150- amps with a fair amount of bass and mids response, early break up, etc. it might suit the stock pickup fairly well. However, that is not the equipment Pat Metheny is using! And he famously uses the tone knob on the guitar rolled almost completely off. A Barnyard Junior in front of the amp might be a possible approach.

I agree with your assertation, however, these pickups are all made with Alnico magnets, mostly Alnico V. You'll be pressed to find any pickup maker using ceramic, having said, I didn't know the pickup was ceramic till after I played the guitar for an hour here at home, then found out online. Most of the CC pickup recommendations suggest the "CC Pickups" company in the UK; that's the one that made the pickup for Pat's Slaman guitar. I decided to go with the Pete Biltoft CC pickup for many reasons; he's providing both Alnico II and V magnets (or III if you wish) which I can swap if I like, Fred Archtop has Biltoft CC pickup with Alnico II in his 53' L5C, and it sounds delightful. In addition, Pete's prices are a bit less, and I don't have to pay a lot in shipping. You alluded to Pat's equipment, but I'm not trying to sound exactly like Pat, although he played with just a 175 and a clean amp for many years before he started recording. I'm well aware of Christian's and Pat's sound, I'm doing my own thing... Thanks for the post!


Cheers,
Arnie..

[cmajor9]

Direct from Ibanez support:

Rob,

The PM3C has a laminated spruce top.

Tod

You could add “…the same as every guitar than Ibanez has built for Metheny.”

[Bflat233]

Question for you all:

CME and Sweetwater are already sold out of the Natural finish, though each has the satin Black in stock. I wondered if that is a signal of what the resale market could be like down the road? I think the Black looks very attractive, especially with that tailpiece. But if they aren't selling as well when new, they may be harder to sell used later, too.

Thoughts?

[garybaldy]

If a higher pickup DCR reduces treble, can you not make a ceramic sound like an alnico just by using the appropriate DCR on each?
Probably the magnet strength of each type of pickup may produce a different comparable volume but couldn't that be tweaked as well?

[Nohhyuk]

Question for you all:

CME and Sweetwater are already sold out of the Natural finish, though each has the satin Black in stock. I wondered if that is a signal of what the resale market could be like down the road? I think the Black looks very attractive, especially with that tailpiece. But if they aren't selling as well when new, they may be harder to sell used later, too.

Thoughts?

I like how the natural looks much better. But,it's hard to really know what this low gloss finish really looks like.

[Cunamara]

I agree with your assertation, however, these pickups are all made with Alnico magnets, mostly Alnico V. You'll be pressed to find any pickup maker using ceramic, having said, I didn't know the pickup was ceramic till after I played the guitar for an hour here at home, then found out online. Most of the CC pickup recommendations suggest the CC Pickups company in the UK; that's the one that made the pickup for Pat's Slaman guitar. I decided to go with the Pete Biltoft CC pickup for many reasons; he's providing both Alnico II and V magnets (or III if you wish) which I can swap if I like, Fred Archtop has Biltoft CC pickup with Alnico II in his 53' L5C, and it sounds delightful. In addition, Pete's prices are a bit less, and I don't have to pay a lot in shipping. You alluded to Pat's equipment, but I'm not trying to sound exactly like Pat, although he played with just a 175 and a clean amp for many years before he started recording. I'm well aware of Christian's and Pat's sound, I'm doing my own thing... Thanks for the post!

I had one of Pete's CC Rider pickups mounted JS style on my carved archtop for quite a while. I really liked the sound a lot; Fred's videos were very representative IME and it was a most satisfying tone, but in my old house with bad wiring noise was really difficult. Gigs were hit or miss. A Hum Debugger pedal was pretty helpful. (I especially liked using Monel strings by Martin with that pickup). The pickup now is a neck-mounted floating humbucker from Pete which also sounds great and is much quieter. I suppose the PM3C pickup as well as the Lollar, of course, will be susceptible to noise given that they are single coils- which might talk me out of picking one of these guitars up as much as I like the CC tone.

[AllanAllen]

I’m a little bewildered by the configuration. Solid carved top… but with knobs, pickup with three screws mounted into-on that top? Might as well have a laminate top, as all that stuff will noticeably reduce the acoustic effect of the vibrating solid top.

Theres this guy Charlie Christian you should google him. This is essentially a copy of a copy of his guitar.