-
no pistols at dawn?
Originally Posted by christianm77
-
02-03-2016 06:42 PM
-
Not really a morning person TBH Originally Posted by nick1994
-
I suspect very few or zero people will watch this but in the touching possibility that someone is interested in hearing something a little more balanced and sensible from me than my normal internet tomfoolery, I think saying it is better than typing. Here it is FWIW:
I think we are guilty of being sentimental about the term 'jazz' in a way that the likes of Miles really weren't. He felt imprisoned, culturally demeaned by the term. I think the term 'jazz' is of value only in so much as it serves us as musicians in the real world. It may be useful to us, or it may not. If not we shouldn't give it a second thought.
It doesn't mean you have to stop transcribing Lester Young or Allan Holdsworth or whatever. What's so important about belonging to a club anyway?
If you play a historical form of jazz - hard bop, say - fair enough. If you are doing some new type of music, you should think about your marketing...
-
Bublegum Originally Posted by targuit
Michael Buble may not be a hard core jazz crooner in the sense of a Tony Bennett (or is he excluded as well), but he at least is keeping the flame burning for tunes like the one I'm linking below. Is it pop or pop jazz or jazz lite? Yes, but at least someone under the Medicare age group is listening to a classic song that has roots in the Great American Songbook and is not Justin Beaver ...er Bieber or Beyonce. Not that I would not nail Beyonce in a .....never mind.
But seriously, do we want to make "jazz" more exclusive in a certain sense than it already is or do want kids raised on bubblegum to begin to acquire a taste for cavier? Can't stand that stuff myself but....I do prefer Champagne to cheap wine.
-
Derek Bailey played Body and Soul very nicely until the Qualudes kicked in. Try putting that on next time you are feeling romantic with a hot blond, assuming she is not on Qualudes too.
As for Peter King, the sax player - anybody got the transcription? Is that LUSH or what?
And Christian, for some reason my "like" button disappeared. Bublegum lllLast edited by targuit; 02-03-2016 at 07:05 PM.
-
funk is for gettin funky Originally Posted by targuit
Derek Bailey played Body and Soul very nicely until the Qualudes kicked in. Try putting that on next time you are feeling romantic with a hot blond, assuming she is not on Qualudes too.
-
I think too many jazzers are playing notes (often too many of those also) and not bringing attitude. Many are as boring as seeing/listening to another coverband playing Mustang Sally.
Maybe that is why Miles kept recruiting young guys.
The jazz guys that are bringing the attitude (sad, happy, cheeky, melancholy, desperate, in love, heart broken etc) seem to be doing well. Isn't the only rule about music is it should convey a message/a feeling (Norwegian Black Metal to Pop to Military Marching Band to South Pacific War Cry to Aboriginal Jamboree to Jazz) otherwise it is just an academic exercise?
-
Steve - I have a true story about 'Ludes and the Philadelphia Symphony Orchestra from around '72. Wanton party and women....those were the days. Of wine, roses, and ....forgot their names...
-
That's ok, I'll let you off this time. Originally Posted by christianm77
Actually when I was a regular visitor to Ronnie Scott's back in the 80s/90s, in addition to Peter King, there were some excellent Brits on the scene, e.g. Gerard Presencer, Tim Garland, Jason Rebello, Jonathan Gee, Clark Tracey. Not sure what they're all up to now. And the superb singer Claire Martin, still very active I believe.
Also there was a fantastic young drummer called Mark Mondesir, he looked like he'd just been let out of school. He really had the same razor-sharp time and swing as any American drummer. I think he's played more recently with John McLaughlin.
-
I suspect the general audience is less interested in instrumental music (forget about genres) than vocal music as vocal music presents a fairly specific 'story' that instrumental music does not.
This theory seemed to make sense until I considered modern film, where today people are more attracted to 90 minutes of special effects (hot licks, tricky harmonies, and complex metrics?) without a coherent story line.
Hmm.
-
For those who haven't heard her, here's some lovely singing by Claire Martin: Originally Posted by grahambop
-
Originally Posted by targuit
Michael Buble may not be a hard core jazz crooner in the sense of a Tony Bennett (or is he excluded as well), but he at least is keeping the flame burning for tunes like the one I'm linking below. Is it pop or pop jazz or jazz lite? Yes, but at least someone under the Medicare age group is listening to a classic song that has roots in the Great American Songbook and is not Justin Beaver ...er Bieber or Beyonce. Not that I would not nail Beyonce in a .....never mind.
But seriously, do we want to make "jazz" more exclusive in a certain sense than it already is or do want kids raised on bubblegum to begin to acquire a taste for cavier? Can't stand that stuff myself but....I do prefer Champagne to cheap wine.
It's not about making anything more exclusive, it's just calling a duck a duck.
Check out Gretchen Parlato. Does plenty of pop material, but very much a jazz approach.
-
Presencer has moved to Berlin IRC. He's not been a fixture on the UK scene for years - other fish to fry. Originally Posted by grahambop
That's ok, I'll let you off this time.
Actually when I was a regular visitor to Ronnie Scott's back in the 80s/90s, in addition to Peter King, there were some excellent Brits on the scene, e.g. Gerard Presencer, Tim Garland, Jason Rebello, Jonathan Gee, Clark Tracey. Not sure what they're all up to now. And the superb singer Claire Martin, still very active I believe.
Also there was a fantastic young drummer called Mark Mondesir, he looked like he'd just been let out of school. He really had the same razor-sharp time and swing as any American drummer. I think he's played more recently with John McLaughlin.
Clark Tracey I haven't seen for ages. I'm sure he's up to stuff. Rebello is in the states. Jonathon Gee is still knocking around. Tim Garland is about - my friend Ant Law is playing guitar with his band (and with Jason Rebello too at Ronnie's on the 23rd March. I should probably go see that if I can.)
I have played with Mark's brother Mike, and met Mark briefly. Both guys have had stellar careers, but Mark is better known, being McLaughlin's drummer, although Mike has played with MacLaughlin...
There are some great players around. There are a few really good boppers and straightahead cats too, a bit of a ground swell of people wanting to swing in the traditional way. In terms of people playing straight bop - I play gigs with a young vibes player called Nat Steele who swings like crazy. He has his own circle of musicians playing bop all great musicians. Needless to say these guys go to New York as much as they can.
The scene churns around. People move on, get better gigs, go elsewhere, or drop off the scene. Younger guys come in and take over. I could list names, but it would go on for several pages.
I do feel that their is a qualitative difference in the way the NY musicians and most London musicians play. Having played with both I would describe it as night and day. NY bass players, for example, seem to push the beat (without speeding up) in a way that is much less common among UK players (with some exceptions.) In general there is a more emphatic statement of the rhythm with all instrumentalists, a crispness in the attack.
If you play with a NY musician, their teachers might well have included say, Kenny Baron, or Ron Carter. That makes a terrific difference to their experiential time/feel. It's a bit different to going to the Guildhall, say.
It's a specific type of energy that good American musicians have...
We don't really have this. And I want it. I think we all do, really!
Perhaps it's foolish to emulate this, and we should do our own thing. But what is our own thing? The nearest we come to it I think is the influence of African-Carribean musicians in UK jazz - the Jazz Warriors and so on. That's a very specific rhythmic lilt.Last edited by christianm77; 02-03-2016 at 08:42 PM.
-
Good woman, Claire. Originally Posted by grahambop
One of the most goodest things about her, for me, is that she sings and has recorded a couple of my songs.
-
Westbrook-Collier-Garrick-Gibbs, Jazz Jamaica, Loose Tubes, da Rude, Annie Whitehead, Iain Ballamy, Mark Ramsden, Stan Sulzmann, Steve Williamson, Steve Noble, Evan Parker, Django Bates, John Taylor, Courtney Pine, Mick Hutton, John Surman, Dave DeFries, John Parricelli, Denys Baptiste, John Etheridge, Julian Arguelles.... I could fill the page with names of Brits who have pioneered their own unique UK-style thing since the self-conscious sense of inferiority to "the rill thing" (Merkin) began to dissipate finally during the '70s. Originally Posted by christianm77
-
Back to the original post/question.
I think most people are highly influenced by what I'll call their music formative years. For me it was probably between 10 and 18 years old. There was a certain freshness, magic, soul and spirit to music when I was that age. Most songs that I loved then I still enjoy and they "take me back". Something changed as I got older and music can no longer be appreciated in the same way.
For most, and especially non-musicians, there just isn't much exposure to jazz during the formative years. Consequently, that magic, soul, and spirit isn't attached to jazz for most people and jazz music doesn't "take them back".
I have a friend that claims Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl is the best song ever written. There is no logical analysis of that song that can come to that conclusion in my mind. Something else is at work in forming his opinion.
For whatever reason, those that enjoy jazz don't fit into what I just described. They are the minority.
-
I would call him an epidemic. My daughter watches a cartoon that has animated girls swooning over an animated singer named Michael Bluebird. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
-
Yeah it's great, they are all top musicians. Originally Posted by Lazz
I don't really want to say more than that TBH.
I've been saying stupid things here on this thread (boredom probably) but in all seriousness, I don't listen much to British jazz apart from the stuff I go to live, and I feel a vague sense of guilt about it. Make of that what you will....Last edited by christianm77; 02-04-2016 at 04:12 PM.
-
Again, back to the original question:
Historically, music was made to move people, and if it didn't do that it went away. Early jazz was made with the listener in mind. It could be somewhat complex musically, but was harmonically accessible to the typical listener. More recently I get the impression that many musicians make music for other musicians and not for the general public. If your goal is to push yourself and your music into new academic realms at the expense of traditional harmony and melody you have to be prepared to accept that it may not be widely accepted. The reality is that most people listen to music to be moved emotionally, not intellectually, and many jazz musicians play music that ignores this reality. That doesn't make it wrong, but it does mean that it is less likely to be widely accepted.
-
Who the hell listens to music to be moved intellectually?? Originally Posted by snoskier63
-
I do. I listen to music for all kinds of reasons. Aesthetically. Sonically. Rhythmically. Emotion, intellect, romance. But emotion is just one. Originally Posted by christianm77
-
I don't. I never did actually. It hits me in the gut or it's bullshit, or if I'm being kinder, background noise.
It is possible to admire music for its craft while having absolutely no love for it as well. But that's because I'm a musician.
But the thing is more music moves me now. I have a far less discerning sensibility, and a far higher tolerance for cheese.
-
I can listen to Shostakovich, Bartok, Chopin, Bird, Bach and get great intellectual stimulation. Also aesthetic and emotional. For me the best is when all three are balanced. All gut and no mind only goes so far for me. I can only listen to so much if anything if it's too out of balance with those three.
And I don't think intellectual is mere craft.
-
It's very popular in Louisiana! I've been to Cajun festivals there and had a great time. I enjoy that music. Like bluegrass, only in French. Originally Posted by grahambop
-
Henry,
You are right, there must be a balance. The key to making great music is being able to achieve that balance. That is not easy to do, but when it happens it doesn't matter what the genre of music, it will be successful. That said, it's my opinion that concern over popularity is misplaced. Ultimately, the only thing that matters is if one is making music that moves oneself. If so one will be happy whether it makes them a lot of money or not. We would all like our passions to make us financially rich, but the reality is that some just need to get there in a different way, whatever that entails.
Reply With Quote
Has anyone tried the JHS Clover preamp pedal?
Today, 05:41 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos