Spoke to Fender about the Mustang III...

[bborzell]

All the recent discussion about the Fender Mustang family of amps has certainly caught my attention as I have been considering moving from my Roland Cube 60 to something else.

Threads here and elsewhere (including the Fender Forum) have described a very unmusical sound that had been emanating from at least one of the Mustang models that has been referred to a a "fizz". More recent discussions have further identified an "obnoxious decay" effect or similar words.

There have been reports of firmware updates that seem to suggest (if the incidence of reporting is any reliable indicator) that most models have now been relieved of the "fizz". I am not clear on whether the "obnoxious decay" effect remains or was ever present in the I, II, IV or V, but it appears that there are ongoing reports, (most recently by Meggy, on this site) of continued non musical sounds coming from the III model.

Since the III is the model I am interested in, and given that it has been some time since Fender technical reps have commented on the most recent thread on the matter on the Fender Forum, I decided to call Fender.

The technical support fellow was very gracious and acknowledged awareness of the issue as it had been discussed in both threads. He basically said that engineers were looking at the matter and that he had no update on the status, at this time. That was pretty much all he was authorized to say (in actual fact, we talked for 10-15 minutes about my question and he was, in no way, trying to avoid the issue) .

He added that Fender would be making an announcement as soon as possible about the issue. Without promising anything and understanding that I didn't have a pressing need to replace an amp (I haven't listed the Cube 60 yet), he mentioned that, if he were in my position, he would wait a couple of weeks before making a purchase decision. The inference was that I would then be in a position to make an informed decision. Again, no promise, but I did get the impression that Fender was close to something here.

That's about it on my Fender encounter. I have been looking at possible alternative to the Mustang III and am of the opinion that waiting for the Fender announcement is the best option for me.

[Meggy]

I appreciate the information, cheers . Sadly for me I think I still have to return the amp I got, I just can't wait for 2 weeks or so to see what Fender announce. Too much of a risk, but at least Fender seem to acknowledge the problem and appear to want to fix it which is positive. Why couldn't they have sorted these issues out in the development process though? A shame, but I will keep an eye on things regarding the Mustang, even if I don't have one myself anymore!

[spiral]

Fender® Forums • View topic - Obnoxius tail end distortion

Fender® Forums • View topic - Mustang III - Digital Aliasing (Strange Fizz Sound)

[strumcat]

Maybe they're just going to rename it the "Fender Fizztang"?

I came within a hair's breadth of walking out of Hollywood Guitar Center with one about a week ago. Glad I couldn't make up my mind. I hope and trust that Fender will do something effective about this.

To my mind the only acceptable remedies would be either a wonderfully clean, noise-free upgrade, or refunds for all those who want them.

[bborzell]

The strange thing is that alongside the two threads complaining about the fizz are many others with folks making no noise at all about unwanted noise.

Maybe there are relatively few guitar players who listen to what they play; or for that matter, play clean channels enough to notice. My guess is that the Marshall stack model would pretty much cover up any fizz.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by bborzell

My guess is that the Marshall stack model would pretty much cover up any fizz.

No. The artifacts are very clear regardless of amp model. Some of the amps just don't have the issue. Could be manufacturing snafu or variations in wall power.

[billkath]

That MUST be driving Fender mad-that some amps do, and some don't.

[bborzell]

Originally Posted by spiral

No. The artifacts are very clear regardless of amp model. Some of the amps just don't have the issue. Could be manufacturing snafu or variations in wall power.

The wall power thing might have legs. There is one posting from a fellow who was going crazy trying to figure out why the amp he played in the store was quiet and when he got it home, there was the fizz.

He ended up trying the amp in different rooms and on different floors of his house and the result was: Floor one---> Fizz, Floor two---> no fizz, Floor three---> return of the fizz.

Obviously different circuits see different loads.

[matt.guitarteacher]

Originally Posted by bborzell

The strange thing is that alongside the two threads complaining about the fizz are many others with folks making no noise at all about unwanted noise.

That's what drove me crazy until I learned that only some of the amps had this problem. I thought how can other people not be hearing this. I guess the answer is that on some of the amps you just don't.

[RonD]

Thanks so much for the post.
I nearly pulled the trigger on the III last week.
I think I'll wait and see what happens.
Based on what I've heard, if they can fix these issues, I gotta have one!

Cheers, Ron

[bborzell]

Originally Posted by RonD

Thanks so much for the post.
I nearly pulled the trigger on the III last week.
I think I'll wait and see what happens.
Based on what I've heard, if they can fix these issues, I gotta have one!

Cheers, Ron

I hope Fender comes up with a fix. This amp has pretty much all the goods as far as I am concerned. After almost writing it off, I looked at the other offerings and came up short. In my view, the only other desirable option in that class is the Roland Cube 80 and I don't believe there is that much difference between the 80 and my 60.

Two weeks and counting...

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by Meggy

I appreciate the information, cheers . Sadly for me I think I still have to return the amp I got, I just can't wait for 2 weeks or so to see what Fender announce. Too much of a risk, but at least Fender seem to acknowledge the problem and appear to want to fix it which is positive. Why couldn't they have sorted these issues out in the development process though? A shame, but I will keep an eye on things regarding the Mustang, even if I don't have one myself anymore!

Took the mustang back today - there were no problems with the shop - and am paying the extra for a Roland cube 80XL. Hope the issues with the Fender do get fixed soon though, especially for those who are at the moment stuck with an amp they can't use.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

I did not realize how alive and current the "Fizz" issue is until I read the first page and last few pages of this thread in the Fender community forum. However, the M III still gets excellent reviews on Amazon and at Musicians Friend.

In particluar, you can sort all the Amazon reviews by date, look at the current ones, and check reviewers' histories ("see all my reviews") to make sure they have reviewed a variety of products over time. I like to do this to make sure there aren't a bunch of shill reviewers pumping or dissing a product. Anyway, it looks to me like there are current, genuine reviews on both sides of the issue: Some say the new firmware/software does the trick, and some say no.

But FWIW, Amazon currently lists this amp as #10 among electric guitar combo amps, and Musicians Friend shows it as a "Best Seller"


Apparently, YMMV a lot!


HighSpeed

[Atticus]

Reviews for the Mustang are probably not based on jazz musicians' opinions. What most guitarists would consider clean matches what jazz guitarists would call kinda dirty, and loads of rock guitarists play fairly distorted (to say nothing of the metal guys), so they probably have no idea.

[cosmic gumbo]

As the Mustang amps will be the new replacements for the cheap frontline models, I don't think they're going to worry about it a whole lot. I think it is a non-issue for them in this price range.

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Originally Posted by Atticus

Reviews for the Mustang are probably not based on jazz musicians' opinions. What most guitarists would consider clean matches what jazz guitarists would call kinda dirty, and loads of rock guitarists play fairly distorted (to say nothing of the metal guys), so they probably have no idea.

Good point. Thanks.

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

As the Mustang amps will be the new replacements for the cheap frontline models, I don't think they're going to worry about it a whole lot. I think it is a non-issue for them in this price range.

Yes, I've wondered about Fender competing with themselves - both with the modeling amps and with Fender certified software (Amplitube for example). It did occur to me that if something is selling like hotcakes, why would Fender care about naysayers anyway? But obvious as maybe it should have been, it did not occur to me that the naysayers might be mostly jazz guitarists. I mean, nobody cares about them!


Well, I think my Mustang just ran out of gas (at least for now ). At this point I need chops more than amps anyway.


HighSpeed

[Meggy]

Nothing has been quite as frustrating and annoying for me as the problems I had with buying, then having to return a Mustang 3 last year. It was so very nearly a really brilliant amp - in the shop it sounded superb, I loved all the different amp models, most of them seemed to give great clean tones, good for all kinds of jazz use. Nice and wide-ranging effects capability too. An amp that could cover all the bases in fact, and cover them well.

Then I got it home, and heard something like this:

YouTube Video

There on pretty much any amp model I chose. Fender described it as some sort of minor issue, that only affected people with very sensitive ears, or words to that effect. What a shame - I had to change it for a Roland Cube 80XL, which is a very good amp, but the Fender was so close to being an amazingly good product...

[HighSpeedSpoon]

Thanks for the link Meggy. It's the first effective A/B I've heard, and it showcases the problem very clearly. Even though the use of two different sources is a legitimate criticism, the test results are dramatic enough to be compelling for me. You pay your money and take your choice, and Fender won't be getting my money for a Mustang III. ... What a shame: So near and yet so far.


HighSpeed

[Jazz_175]

Well...the Mustang I clean note is very nice.
But the Mustang III fizz is horrible.

I'm wondering: Is there any really good (non tube) Fender amp which is worth buying instead of the Mustang series?

[Meggy]

Originally Posted by HighSpeedSpoon

Thanks for the link Meggy. It's the first effective A/B I've heard, and it showcases the problem very clearly. Even though the use of two different sources is a legitimate criticism, the test results are dramatic enough to be compelling for me. You pay your money and take your choice, and Fender won't be getting my money for a Mustang III. ... What a shame: So near and yet so far.


HighSpeed

Originally Posted by Jazz_175

Well...the Mustang I clean note is very nice.
But the Mustang III fizz is horrible.

I'm wondering: Is there any really good (non tube) Fender amp which is worth buying instead of the Mustang series?

Well, I should say that my experience is only with the Mustang 3, and from what I can tell, the M1 and M2 are fizz-free. Also very probably the M4 and M5 amps too. When it wasn't fizzing (i.e. when I tried it in the shop) the M3 really was sounding just fabulous to my ears (I was playing through it with a thinline tele the shop had). It was so good in fact, that despite the annoying experience I had, if I heard of conclusive proof that the fizz problem was fixed, I would be very tempted to go back and get another one. Also, I sometimes wonder if the Mustang 4 wouldn't be a good buy as well - this is the 2x12 version with full stereo effects and stereo in/out jacks for the effects loop. Probably not too heavy either (the Mustang 3 was pretty lightweight) - probably a very cool amp. Why Fender, why???

[FrankLearns]

Originally Posted by Meggy

Also, I sometimes wonder if the Mustang 4 wouldn't be a good buy as well - this is the 2x12 version with full stereo effects and stereo in/out jacks for the effects loop. Probably not too heavy either (the Mustang 3 was pretty lightweight) - probably a very cool amp. Why Fender, why???

Dear Meggy,

I have been admiring your Tele and strat bulld projects - nice work!

I have a M4 for a few months now and i am very pleased with it. No fizz whatsoever.

I think it sounds incredible and of all modeling amps i have heard it is the by far best. I also have a cube 80xl and the M4 make it pale. I still like the clean channel of the cube. The clean channel of the cube is not better or worse than the m4 to my ears, just different. I still play my archtops often through the cube and do mainly rock with the m4.

The amp emulations on the m4 sounds amazing to my ears and the effects are very good. I have deleted the factory presets and have put the pure amp models with a little spring reverb onto the first twelve places and enjoy every one of them. I think many people (certainly including myself) would be challenged to hear the difference to a tube amp. I enjoy the enormous versatility (it is really needed as the band plays totally different types of music). The nice thing is that you can get tube like sounds atbany volume - load and clean or quiet and distorted. It all works and the gain/volume knobs really work on the m4 in a way very similar to a real amp. But then the master volume can be used to adjust the actual output.

In terms of weight it is not that light. A little over 20 kg, so it is quite something to schlep around. The cube is certainly much more portable. The m4 is unbelievably loud. Even on master volume 3 I easily compete with our drummer and am told to turn down. Thus, there is so much headroom that it is almost too much. From that perspective the m3 would have been enough and would have been more portable. I somehow feel that for jazz the m4 is somewhat overdimensioned and i would probably be a bit awkward showing up at a gig with an amp that large. For rock it is monster though. Since i leave the m4 in the band practice room i almost consider buying a smaller one for home, sound tweaking and perhaps also jazz jamming/gigs. It is that good!

Is it clear that the fizz is there all over the world? Could it have to do with 110 V vs 220 V? I am in germany and have not heard the slightest amount of fizz in mine.

[Meggy]

Hi Frank, thanks for liking the tele and strat builds by the way. Appreciate your honesty regarding the m4 weight - over 20kg puts it in the high 40's in pounds (I have to convert being British ). Still, everything else you say tallies with my impressions when I first tried the M3 - really good amp models (the best I'd ever heard in fact), power on tap, and incredibly versatile. I'm tempted, but that is a heavy amp, and I am principally a jazzer, so it would be overkill for me.

The fizz seems to be a funny thing - it's not a 110 v 220 volt issue, we have 240V in the UK. Plus I'm pretty sure it wasn't fizzing when I tried it in the shop, just when I got it home. Maybe something to do with it being too sensitive to variations in the power supply, but that's just a guess on my part. Maybe it's a fault only on some of them, and not others - but with my experience, it is still a risk to buy one that seems OK in the shop. Oh well, I'll have to wait for the Mk 2 version I guess.

[redwater]

I bought the MIII last October and there is no Fizz. I enjoy it every day. It is such a lovely amp.

[boatheelmusic]

Brought home the Mustang 1 for a practice amp, and to record in Garageband.

The whole amp is the same price as an apogee usb interface for Garageband, which the Mustang has too.

No fizz with my Gibsons, and the 8" speaker does surprisingly fine for this use.

No break-up on low strings.

Mucho fun to play with amp models !

Now, back to the melodic minor scale