Commit to a song a week. What could a serious student hope to learn?

**Doublea A** · 10-19-2017, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Sorry typo corrected it. iv-6—bVII7-I

So Fm6 to Bb7 to C ?

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**Duffy Pratt** · 10-19-2017, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Personally, I got a ton out of the original superchops program. The rhythmic limitations really forced me to spend some time getting to know the neck a lot better. I feel a lot more comfortable now playing these somewhat simpler progressions, because I spent so much time struggling with the really complicated (to me) substitutions. Also, you only have six tunes to work on in 20 weeks, and I do think the repetition is extremely beneficial.

Thanks for the reply. The six tunes in 20 weeks is the main difference in terms of the program. But if I graft that program over to here, I will have the benefit of active conversation and potential feedback, while only giving up, or putting off, certain aspects of the Roberts program. And FWIW, I was not religiously following the tunes anyway. I did Blue Bossa, followed by Solar, and then Cherokee - not his program. I think I will probably opt for the company and see how it works for me.

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**Duffy Pratt** · 10-19-2017, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jehu

Great tune this week, by the way. One of my favourites. Is it commonly in G, though? I think I've always played it in F (starting on Bb).

Jimmy Bruno says it's usually in F. I need to decide where it will be better for my voice since this is one I would like to sing. The E is about at the top of my range. A d would be more comfortable, but that doesn't mean it will sound better.

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TH · 10-19-2017, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt

Jimmy Bruno says it's usually in F. I need to decide where it will be better for my voice since this is one I would like to sing. The E is about at the top of my range. A d would be more comfortable, but that doesn't mean it will sound better.

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I know it's a very short time, a week, to become familiar with a tune, but for those players who have the harmonic fundamentals down, it's good to learn these tunes by roman numeral function, and then transfer that to your fretboard knowledge, sooner than later. It's one of those skills, to hear and see intervallic relationships given a knowledge of all the "do" notes across the fingerboard. On the guitar, the relationships and where they're found is movable. It's something that no other instrument can do as easily. So how you'd play it with "do" on the first fret 6th string is how you'd play it with do on the third fret for the key of G.

In the key of D, that system is moved up to "do" on the 10th. Does anyone learn to visualize keys this way? It comes in really handy to keep you from getting fixated on "comfortable" positions.

Just a suggestion for an eventual point of study.

David

**wzpgsr** · 10-20-2017, 11:45 AM

This is really not apropos to the point of the thread, but I am really hearing how different amps, settings, and guitars affect how I play over these tunes.

TH · 10-21-2017, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

This is really not apropos to the point of the thread, but I am really hearing how different amps, settings, and guitars affect how I play over these tunes.

Well I'd say it has a lot to do. When we know a few licks, it's not music that you'd need to express with a fitting instrument, but when you have something to say, yes having the right instrument is essential.
And I've found from experience that for me, it doesn't coincide with prestige guitars in general.
This thread is about creating your voice. It's really of essence to be able to express that with the least amount of resistance. When you find the inspiring combination, you'll know it.

David

TH · 10-21-2017, 07:52 PM

As promised, each 4th week of the month I choose a song that's not generally considered a workhorse standard. These are songs I love to play and some may have challenging twists but they're always ones I love playing. This is by guitarist Herb Ellis but it was Bill Evans' version I came to know this song from.
Detour Ahead is AABA, and the B section provides a beautiful contrast/compliment to the A section.
Listen to the melody. Listen to how the phrases seem to ask a question, then answer. How it breathes. It's one of the reasons this tune sticks with me.

Commit to a song a week. What could a serious student hope to learn?-screen-shot-2017-10-21-7-45-47-pm-png

Commit to a song a week. What could a serious student hope to learn?-screen-shot-2017-10-21-7-45-47-pm-png

The thought of the week while you're getting to know this song is: How do you make a solo or song come alive? What are the things that take just notes, and make them into thoughts, questions, answers, exclamations or in some way tell a story?

Have fun!
David

I'll give a deeper analysis or breakdown through the week, see what you get out from your own first encounter.

TH · 10-21-2017, 08:04 PM

Some of the ways people have found their own take on this song

Bill Evans trio

Elaine Elias has a nice vocal take

And Ella -strangely, as a duo here, the youtube poster doesn't give one hint as to who it was, though she did work with Herb Ellis around that time, and of course Joe Pass later.

Hope you like it

David

**pingu** · 10-21-2017, 08:24 PM

Hi Truth ,

Is there anyway you can link to a PDF of the sheet for detour ahead ?

I'd find it easier if I could print it out
May not be legal .... I dunno

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 07:07 PM

Beautiful.

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 07:34 PM

I like this version too:

**johnnyjazz** · 10-22-2017, 07:40 PM

I would be really interested if you could script this for solo playing, ie no backing track to follow but learning the complete song, bass, melody, harmony etc, all played by one person on the guitar.

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 07:48 PM

This is a great song and this will be a fun study week

**WILSON 1** · 10-22-2017, 07:58 PM

Here is a quick copy of DETOUR AHEAD.

I did not check chords, spelling etc., just made a cleaner chart to read.

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 08:33 PM

From jazz royalty:

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 08:47 PM

So much to learn from the Great Ladies of jazz...

**gcb** · 10-22-2017, 08:58 PM

And here is one Herb Ellis's versión:

Detour Ahead (from The Jazz Pianist's Ultimate Guide To The Real Book) | Keyboard Improv

TH · 10-22-2017, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyjazz

I would be really interested if you could script this for solo playing, ie no backing track to follow but learning the complete song, bass, melody, harmony etc, all played by one person on the guitar.

You mean a chord solo arrangement? Hoo boy. That's a big question, and one that might make a nice thread of its own, if that indeed is what you're looking for. That's also an implicit treatment of the tune for the weekly tune for those up to that level but there are so many approaches; I think it's a lot for me right now but anyone else?

johnnyjazz, I certainly empathize though. The first time I heard the Bill Evans version of this, I thought "I need to be able to play this as solo guitar some day". I will share this though, I'm working on this tune solo too, but on a fretless, which precludes any really complicated or reaching chord forms. Not a detraction at all with a piece this beautifully and harmonically descriptive. I work from the melody. It's important for me to get it by memory. Then where changes appear, or when the melody has long tones, the presence of a bass note alone (dyad if you want at the beginning of a bar) is quite enough to make a beautiful arrangement.

Working from the bass up, you can voice a simple chord so the melody is the top note is the melody (major 7 with 3 on top for starters...) but if you want the whole tune arranged, maybe that's a cool thread on its own. Is that what you're asking?

David

**wzpgsr** · 10-23-2017, 10:50 PM

This weeks tune is great. I am not that familiar with it. I really enjoyed listening to Bill Evans, Herb Ellis, and several other versions. I have a lot more listening to do, though. Tonight’s practice reminded me that you can’t always fake it till you make it—especially at 42 bpm! The first two 10 minutes I tried to hit just the thirds of each chord without relying too much on the chart. I have most of it down, but need to spend some extra time with this one. Third run through I opened up a bit, this time trying to pick up to the thirds with various approaches and a little voice little. A for effort I guess. I am going to gradually increase the tempo, but I’d like to stay closer to ballad tempo for this one. A few versions I listened to start off very slow and then jump off into double time.

**wzpgsr** · 10-23-2017, 10:50 PM

Also, most of the changes are pretty straight forward for me, but what the heck is going on functionally in the first two measures??

**NSJ** · 10-23-2017, 11:38 PM

Originally Posted by wzpgsr

Also, most of the changes are pretty straight forward for me, but what the heck is going on functionally in the first two measures??

My take? The I chord is not acting as the I chord and is immediately in motion. moving and trying to move the IV chord (measure 3).

C° Is the diminished that gets you to the V7 chord (G7). B7 is One of the four related dom7 chords associated with C°. . F# dom is the enharmonic Tritone (Gb) to C7. C7 gets you to Fmaj (V7/IVM).

**Michael Kaye** · 10-24-2017, 01:16 AM

Great tune. Gosh, Bill Evans playing is incredible on this. I don't know this tune but it's beautiful. I'm going to transcribe some of his lush voicings. Particularly the Cmaj7 treatment in bars 7 and 15. There are some gorgeous lines to be had there. It freaks me out how good one guy can get at his craft. Maybe I'm just enamored by the fact that I don't know this tune. Only transcribing it will answer that for me. Gorgeous playing.

**johnnyjazz** · 10-24-2017, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

You mean a chord solo arrangement? Hoo boy. That's a big question, and one that might make a nice thread of its own, if that indeed is what you're looking for. That's also an implicit treatment of the tune for the weekly tune for those up to that level but there are so many approaches; I think it's a lot for me right now but anyone else?

johnnyjazz, I certainly empathize though. The first time I heard the Bill Evans version of this, I thought "I need to be able to play this as solo guitar some day". I will share this though, I'm working on this tune solo too, but on a fretless, which precludes any really complicated or reaching chord forms. Not a detraction at all with a piece this beautifully and harmonically descriptive. I work from the melody. It's important for me to get it by memory. Then where changes appear, or when the melody has long tones, the presence of a bass note alone (dyad if you want at the beginning of a bar) is quite enough to make a beautiful arrangement.

Working from the bass up, you can voice a simple chord so the melody is the top note is the melody (major 7 with 3 on top for starters...) but if you want the whole tune arranged, maybe that's a cool thread on its own. Is that what you're asking?

David

Yes David, the complete tune arranged for solo fingerstyle, but i can,t read music, it would have to be tablature.

I am very influenced by Martin Taylor.

This is a big ask and i know it will take time, but all good things etc.

Many thanks John.

**pingu** · 10-24-2017, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by WILSON 1

Here is a quick copy of DETOUR AHEAD.

I did not check chords, spelling etc., just made a cleaner chart to read.

Thankyou very much

TH · 10-24-2017, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by johnnyjazz

Yes David, the complete tune arranged for solo fingerstyle, but i can,t read music, it would have to be tablature.

I am very influenced by Martin Taylor.

This is a big ask and i know it will take time, but all good things etc.

Many thanks John.

Do you know your fingerboard well enough to identify notes all around by name? How are you with chord grids? I won't do TAB, sorry, it's a perspective thing, but it would indeed be fun to do as a lesson in melodic position and chord playing.

I'll think about how I'd do a project thread. It may take time to get through the piece, but I'd like it to be a lesson on chord melody and not just a list of places to plant your fingers. If that's OK.

David

PS. no further lecture on this topic but there's great power in acquiring fluency in standard notation. You can learn it in a month or so and it'd be with you your whole life.