Commit to a song a week. What could a serious student hope to learn?

[gcb]

Great thread. Thanks TruthHertz. Having fun with this. Will try to follow up.

Took the given chart. F# in the key signature tells the chart is in Gmajor. Gmajor tonality contains Gmaj7 as Imaj7, Cmajor as IVmaj7 and Em7 as VIm7). Relative minor is Emin and the composer made good use of it in alternate form as explained in the OP.

I liked the idea of the OP of using colors. I did the exercise. In the A section, I see the first four measures( "the falling leaves drift by my window") as yellow with a chain of Am7 ascending in fifths to D7, then descending to Gmajor and ending in Cmajor (IVmaj7) (Brown).

Measures 5 to 8: ("the autumn leaves, of red and gold") I see them in green, with F#m7b5 ascending to B7, and descending to Em7. Locrian mode of Emin harmonic scale probably would fit here but still not there.

Yellow and Green alternate until the last eight measures, where we find a descending run. (In the bass I substituted Eb7 with A7 and Db7 with G7 in In the guitar go Em9 Eb9#5 Dm9 Eb9#5 and of course there are plenty possibilities here for substitutions.)

Second, I played the melody slowly many times as written. Not embeleshing, or trusting my memory. Just many times as written and memorized it.

Third, wanted to actually hum the song, not just do it just mentally, so I found my range transposing it to Db, a nice exercise. Then
I switched to the bass and played the song structure just in 3rds and sevenths for each chord humming it for about half hour with no chart or other written aid in sight.

So far so good.

Very basic but again, made me take my guitar and bass guitar out of the closet and have fun playing a while.

Thanks TruthHertz and all the fellow forum members who contribute to the thread.

[Jehu]

Hey David, what did you have in mind for the "fast" end of slow to fast?

The upper end of your tempo range?
Just beyond your comfort zone?
Or maybe 'truly brisk' -- sink or swim?

[TH]

Hey David, what did you have in mind for the "fast" end of slow to fast?

The upper end of your tempo range?
Just beyond your comfort zone?
Or maybe 'truly brisk' -- sink or swim?

In control, comfortable and within the awareness of what's happening. I'm not pushing to break the speed limit, but rather so we can get a good idea of how our perceptions and note choices change as we get to faster tunes.
So many up tempo tunes are learned as presto pieces and we don't get to know them the same way we'd know a ballad. I think it'd be great to keep the tune constant and the tempo increasing so we can "run the spectrum" so to speak.

Don't worry about pushing the limits, we're going to be playing a LOT of tunes!

Just today I was speaking with a guitar player, and he went to MI (used to be GIT) in California, the place Howard Roberts was there at the start for. He said the big thing there was immersion, time with the guitar, and guidance when asked for. Really, you found your own strengths through playing.
That'd be great, eh?

David

[TH]

An aside: the strumming and singing thing -- last night I tried it with the first few bars of Out of Nowhere. The lines I sang were much more interesting than the lines I played without singing. Even on two bars of Gmaj7. I really should do more of that!

The implication for soloing is interesting. Do I need more work on theory or transcription? Or, maybe first, I should work on letting my mind lead my fingers instead of the other way around. Apparently, I can already hear, in my mind, better ideas than the ones I tend to play. I need to catch up to my own ideas.

This is a really powerful observation. I won't get into it here and now but about 8 years ago I underwent a revelation in my understanding of how we learn. I was in school at the time and I was studying right and left hemisphere processing and how we think of things when we're learning. In short, we process information in different ways: for detail and like a filing cabinet-that's left hemisphere- and seeing the whole and how it fits together-that's the right- and balance is the goal. I began working closely with Mick Goodrick on this and we started to use art, perception exercises and an art session format in learning music.
Deep stuff and amazingly powerful.
But all this is to say, learning right brain goes deep and it comes from doing and the hang. Yeah, it really informs the way I urge others to learn too.

Some time in the future, this will be the "interesting thought of the week" topic. It'll be fun.

David

[Doublea A]

This is a great idea !!
I am in !!


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[Doublea A]

Is the idea to record the process as we go ? or are just posting the finished product ?

Do you want to hear the recording of the bass lines, chords etc ?
Do you want to hear it as a ballad/medium and up tempo ? or will our best execution suffice ?

[TH]

Is the idea to record the process as we go ? or are just posting the finished product ?

Do you want to hear the recording of the bass lines, chords etc ?
Do you want to hear it as a ballad/medium and up tempo ? or will our best execution suffice ?

All postings or contributions are strictly up to you and the enthusiastic support of this community. Really the goal here is to have you wake up one morning and say "NOW I get what it's all about!"

I love to listen to them and as time allows, I'll give specific commentaries. Often there are things that are coming together on their own are good left to gel.
Post as you please, I know for a fact that everything that is posted is an inspiration and encouragement to all here. Thanks guys!

David

[TH]

So the format is simple and I thank Howard Roberts for his tried and tested template.
1. Warm up each day and find the comfort zone of your guitar.
2. Record a 10 minute backing track. From a bass line, to a simple (don't make it too rhythmically complicated-it's for you to solo on) chordal approach. This will also improve as you go through the year so just do it.
3. Rest for 5 minutes. Clear your head.
4. Solo for 10 minutes. How you solo is up to you.
5. Rest for 5 minutes. Clear your head. What do you think of what you played? What did you miss? What do you need to address? Make and take notes on areas of improvement if you want.
6. Solo for 10 minutes.
7. Rest for 5 minutes.
8. Solo for 10 minutes.
9. Think back and make notes on what you liked and what you wish you could've done.

The goal here is to get off book and tap into the piece and discover what you can about your evolving improvisational skills.
If you haven't gotten to where you want on last week's piece, leave it. Sometimes you pick up things along the way and all of a sudden everything you couldn't do makes sense.

If you've worked with this piece before, no matter. Take the tempo from a ballad on day one and progress through a tempo increase each day for the week. You may get something you never saw before.

The piece is centred around the tonality of C Major.
I'll post some study notes in a post following.

Here's the thought of the week: You can look at a musical statement in many ways. As a composer, you can start from point A and wind up in point B. You can also start with some specific point B in mind and think of differing strategies and routes to wind up there. You might think about how a simple thing like attitude and strategy effects the route and the musical statement you make.

David

[rpjazzguitar]

Here's a thought.

All of Me has a lot of chords which are held for 8 beats.

First thing, reharmonize the tune.

So, for example, instead of 8 beats of Cmaj7 at the top, pencil into the chart: 2 beats each of Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Dm7.

For the backing track, just keep the original 8 beats of Cmaj7.

But, when you're soloing, solo over the penciled-in changes.

For the E7, maybe Bm7b5 to Bb13.

For the A7, maybe A7#11 to A7. (Or, stay on the Bb13 for a couple of extra beats over the bar line before dropping down into the A7).

For the Dm7, pass the root down chromatically, so it's Dm, Dmmaj, Dm7, Dm6

And so forth. Solo on the penciled in changes in every case and hear how the juxtaposition against the original harmony sounds.

The idea is that I often hear good players do this -- they solo over an imagined set of changes that isn't what the comping is actually doing at the time.

[TH]

I've always liked this piece. For me, it's a somewhat stable tonally clear piece like Autumn (no crazy modulations) but it's interesting because there's so much dominant 7th harmony in it. Where you'd normally have a diatonic chord (I to III-) there are all these dominant 7 chords (I to III 7) . This is a nice piece to take a peek at the role of the 7th chord in diatonic harmony.

Diatonic chords always primary colours for me. They are essential to hearing a key and can be subtle in those colours too. Diatonicism has the stability of familiarity. Dominant chords have a strong feeling of movement to my ear.

This piece is a good piece to get by ear, it flows nicely.
I think it'd be a fun project to lay out the root movement in diatonic roman numerals, with the chords played as major and minor diatonic chords. It's got a good "inside" almost Hans Groiner vibe to it. Then rewrite the dominant chords as red symbols (red III7, red VI7, etc) and watch the architecture of harmonic movement that makes this piece compelling.

Put together a vocabulary together of dominant phrases and impart a feeling of movement to your flow. See how you can choose your notes to convey intention. A good dominant 7th bag is a truly powerful tool. If you get anything out of this week's song, that's a good one. There are many 7th chord melodic choices, from mixolydian to whole tone. Each has its own flavour and punch to it. Learn to hear and control them.

Melodically, this piece has a great motific flow. Notice how each phrase is made up of descending motifs that rest on notes of gravity. Take notice of how these little phrases work, how they outline a chordal area and how pickup notes function.
I'll let you explore this yourself, but take what you observe and create your own melodies inspired by, or in contrast to the melody.
Get the feel, the overall flow of the piece and be mindful as you make your playing decisions.

Ask any questions you have. And we'll have an in-depth discussion on what we've uncovered and discovered in the Thursday hang.

I hope this piece turns out to be a fun experience!

David

[TH]

Here's a thought.

All of Me has a lot of chords which are held for 8 beats.

First thing, reharmonize the tune.

.

Yeah, this piece is great because it offers so much for everyone on every level. For the more advanced and adventurous, different approaches to the next chord (target chord) are SO satisfying and challenging. You could definitely learn a lifetime's reharmonizations with this tune.

At a later time, we'll take a look at how superimposing cycles and "outside" passages is an outgrowth from what we can do here.

The pieces from now on will be built on the relationships of diatonic chords and secondary dominants. What we can get from this tune builds a lot of groundwork. Plus, this is just a lot of fun to play!

David

[wzpgsr]

Here's a thought.

All of Me has a lot of chords which are held for 8 beats.

First thing, reharmonize the tune.

So, for example, instead of 8 beats of Cmaj7 at the top, pencil into the chart: 2 beats each of Cmaj7, Dm7, Em7, Dm7.

For the backing track, just keep the original 8 beats of Cmaj7.

But, when you're soloing, solo over the penciled-in changes.

For the E7, maybe Bm7b5 to Bb13.

For the A7, maybe A7#11 to A7. (Or, stay on the Bb13 for a couple of extra beats over the bar line before dropping down into the A7).

For the Dm7, pass the root down chromatically, so it's Dm, Dmmaj, Dm7, Dm6

And so forth. Solo on the penciled in changes in every case and hear how the juxtaposition against the original harmony sounds.

The idea is that I often hear good players do this -- they solo over an imagined set of changes that isn't what the comping is actually doing at the time.

That really nails, I think, why I was having so much trouble with a lot of the Howard Roberts changes in super chops. Everything was re-harmonized to such a degree that my lack of experience was killing me. But, I definitely learned from it. On Autumn Leaves for example, instead of playing a vanilla D7 for the V cord in the major 251, I’m now playing an A flat flat seven sharp 11 to get some root movement down to the G. I think I will take a somewhat simpler approach than you laid out, and just try to reharmonize a you bars here in with All of Me.

[TH]

That really nails, I think, why I was having so much trouble with a lot of the Howard Roberts changes in super chops. Everything was re-harmonized to such a degree that my lack of experience was killing me.

Yes, he had some ideas of where baseline was for his target audience. Here during our journey, I'm going to try to be mindful of how diverse our levels are and offer a simple DIY approach, with some handy suggestions on approaches. The more questions asked, the more we can flesh out approaches, or even exercises that might help. ' don't want to overwhelm anyone with too much advice... plenty of that in the world, but find your speed, your information/theory level and play. I guarantee you'll take it to the next level.

David

[docbop]

Here's a thought.

All of Me has a lot of chords which are held for 8 beats.

First thing, reharmonize the tune.

You can always imply all those changes in your solo while rhythm stays on basic changes. That way your solo can add motion over a static rhythm.

[wolflen]

david..good post

In all of the information given..two aspects MUST be in your being..patients and determination..you have to give the music life and feel it..and in the end BE the music...in watching chick corea and john McLaughlin work together is a master class in music and communication and a joy to listen
.
my beginnings were an amalgam of Davids approach and the teachings of classical and jazz masters of all instruments..and the amazing amount of information they absorb and distribute


I worked with another guitarist who had a teacher that studied with Segovia so his approach was from the strict classical school..I studied with Ted Greene and wanted to explore jazz and blues ..

We worked out of a "fake book" and much like the approach David is using we did a song a week..4-5 hrs a session every day --fast forward--after a year we had about 40 tunes we could really play well comp and solo, trade 4' & 8's etc.

My partner then went to the Dick Grove school to study composition and after some months began to write some very tasty tunes along the lines of Earl Kluge who was just beginning to get air play at that time.
There was a club called the "banjo café" it was a bluegrass club and they had an open mike night contest..we signed up..and went on first..and performed two tunes he wrote al la Kluge-on nylon string guitars..we received a very warm response..all the following acts were..well bluegrass flavored..there were approx. 10 acts in the 2 hour contest..anyway...we won-go figure

these days I am taking apart standards and dressing them up with some harmony changes just to see what I can discover without a lead sheet in front of me...I also find the study of Zen to be helpful in many ways with my study of music

[Doublea A]

When is the first song due ?


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[TH]

When is the first song due ?


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Hi Doublea A, the songs come once a week, and because it's a continuously ongoing introduction of ideas, and a collective pool of knowledge and skill, there are never any due projects, or not by any specific date.
The skill it takes to learn a song with the depth and appreciation it takes to re-compose an improvisation is multilayered.
Over time, we'll learn to hear form, to build a rhythmic vocabulary, to use dynamics to shade an idea... and tons of other stuff. All this will be good retrospectively too. So what you might pick up this week will inform last week's song in ways you never imagined.

We learn the songs by doing them and the solos will become more personal, controlled and expressive over time. Every time your approach gets more intentional and personal, you've achieved a goal with flying colours.

Give each tune a week and banish the concept of mastery or producing a finished product. It'll come in its own time. The next week we begin again.

This is a process I think is close to the acquisition of a community supported folk skill. It's like learning art with ongoing critiques and questions and the discovery process is by your own clock.

I look forward to your revelations!

David

[NSJ]

The funny thing is, “all of me” has been played death by a lot of people, it was practically in every Miles Davis set for a while.

I never really learned the tune, it never really pulled me in as a standard. Nonetheless, I’ll work on it. I tried to google lyrics, and the first thing that came up was a tune by a guy I never heard of before, John legend.

Safe bet, when trying to google lyrics of standards, prophecy google entry with the words, “Frank Sinatra“ or “Ella Fitzgerald“.

its really an ABAC, 1-3-6-2-5 thing. I learned the A section tonight. That’s 16 of the 32 bars down. 16 more to go. .

[Doublea A]

Hi Doublea A, the songs come once a week, and because it's a continuously ongoing introduction of ideas, and a collective pool of knowledge and skill, there are never any due projects, or not by any specific date.
The skill it takes to learn a song with the depth and appreciation it takes to re-compose an improvisation is multilayered.
Over time, we'll learn to hear form, to build a rhythmic vocabulary, to use dynamics to shade an idea... and tons of other stuff. All this will be good retrospectively too. So what you might pick up this week will inform last week's song in ways you never imagined.

We learn the songs by doing them and the solos will become more personal, controlled and expressive over time. Every time your approach gets more intentional and personal, you've achieved a goal with flying colours.

Give each tune a week and banish the concept of mastery or producing a finished product. It'll come in its own time. The next week we begin again.

This is a process I think is close to the acquisition of a community supported folk skill. It's like learning art with ongoing critiques and questions and the discovery process is by your own clock.

I look forward to your revelations!

David

Are people posting their work ?


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[wzpgsr]

I will occasionally. I decided that in the future though i will pick one or two choruses instead of an entire 10 minute session like I have been posting because...ick.

[guido5]

Warn Marsh did a contrafact on "All of Me" called "Background Music". Definitely worth a listen.

[TH]

Are people posting their work ?


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Please!!
I think it'll become easier as we go along, because the progressive weeks will surely give us more to say and an ease of saying it.
Please!
I know we are all at different levels and there's so much offered in each time someone posts clips. Short of a regular hang where we get together, shoot the breeze and play what's on our minds, encourage (and steal ... be inspired by) one another, I like having a safe place where we can all learn, play and listen.

Each week is a fresh slate. Every week we're a beginner. Some weeks we have more we can do and say. Some days we have something we feel like sharing.

I look forward to this!

David

[TH]

Warn Marsh did a contrafact on "All of Me" called "Background Music". Definitely worth a listen.

Wow! That's nice!

Thanks for bringing that to us. Very inspiring.

David

[Jhui]

Are people posting their work ?


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I'll try to post. If nothing else, then just to track my own progress and see if my playing gets any better. IMO this thread would benefit people posting their playing. You can find lots of ideas and tips when listening others play the same tune. Great choice for week 2 song btw!

[TH]

Hope you're having a good time with this tune.
I'd mentioned blocking out the song, on the chart and in your mind. So I've posted a "map" that's really helpful for me when I'm digging into a piece.
Ear comes first for me always, to the point that I won't even look at a chart until I'm able to hum the tune and know the twists and turns by ear in some way.

Then I'll take a chart and do this to it:



So I thought I'd share some thoughts as I'm making my way through the second week.
These small two measure blocks are great places to gather up, plan and execute fresh ideas. I think "rambling" is one of the greatest dangers of playing a solo; falling into a mode of playing that fizzles.
If I've got a smaller "block" of space, a two bar section of a distinctive harmonic sound, I'm more inclined to be able to plan an idea.
It's a helpful thing for me to have a "book" of ideas I carry in my head or in a notebook.
Some ideas:
You can make a solo with only rhythmic priority. Just think about the rhythm. One note, even. Or just tapping your hand... But make the rhythm interesting. Listen to Hank Mobley, or Dexter, or any of those cats with their own sound. It's HOW the note is played. Make a rhythm in a "block" and follow it with equally intentional rhythms. That may change your idea of space.
You can start your "block" somewhere other than beat one... or the root... or even besides a chord tone. Even start before the bar line with pickup notes.
Watch your idea of contour, up and down movement. Look at the head of All of Me. Imagine yourself playing that as a solo. See the way each "block" phrase has the last one in mind? Make (or write out) a solo with that much intention.

So some ideas to start with. Finally, those red phrases, they have a tension inherent to them. You'll start to feel it as your ears get better. They tend to lead up a 4th to the next chord. That's the strength of secondary dominants: They are companions to their targets. That's why I wrote those red arrows. Think of the red chords in a way so they're leading to the next chord.
I'll leave it to you to wrestle with that. Good luck with the AHA! moment.

Share your thoughts with the group!

David