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I think we are back! Just a couple of ideas that occurred to me this week: if you multitrack, turn off the comping track and see if you can still hear the changes and/or identify the song. Also, can you make the song identifiable by improvising only in one position (6 frets) on one string only? For example, frets 4-9 on the B string.
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10-14-2017 02:53 PM
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Welcome back after our server switch hiatus.
Each week I'll introduce a tune that has some useful device that will add to your vocabulary. Week 1 had a look at major and minor and the turnaround chords that worked with them. It also gave a good stable look at how these two sides of diatonic sounds work with one another.
Week two introduced the secondary dominant chords, as ways to take the diatonic and familiar and add some spice and edge to the expected.
This week we introduce a common chordal sound that we hear in jazz and show based popular tunes that eventually got used by bands like the Beatles. This is the sound of the IV- sound. There are reasons why this works, and if you're curious, you can search the threads on modal interchange and you can read about it. In short, if you're in a minor based tonality, it's got a great set of support chords that includes the IV- chord. It works so nicely as a sound, why not use that set of sounds with a convergence on a major sound? That's the idea, but here's the sound.
This week let's look at Just Friends. It's for the most part a A B A C, or a two part piece with one an ending that brings you to the top, and an ending that brings you to rest.
Another area of note, it the piece starts on the IV chord. So while the piece is in G, it actually begins on the IV Major chord, then the IV minor.
For learning this piece, I'd say the lines fall very nicely as 4 bar phrases, but you break it down the way you like, get to know the tune in segments. I make a loop of phrase length pieces of the harmony and get to know the sound. You do it as you're getting to know your own ear.
Start slowly, at ballad tempo at the start of the week, and gradually work the tempo up during the week.
Make a roman numeral chord function version of the chart if you'd like. I'll post one of these later on in the week if it's helpful.
Here's Just Friends. Have fun
David
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Please remember that this is a participatory group and questions you have about anything and on any level are most welcome. In fact, that's what this thread is really about. I want to de-mystify the process of learning/learning about/memorizing/understanding and playing jazz based on tunes.
So though the piece will change each week, the format won't. If we get to week 6 and you have an AHA! moment about those strange chords that don't seem to fit to the parent scale, ask. We can refer back to an earlier post or I can have a deeper discussion about dominant approach chords.
Remember we're all processing these pieces in our own way, based on our own knowledge base at the moment. It'll grow. So ask from where you are and share your curiousity and frustration, and we'll share our own moments of breakthrough in response.
David
PS Since the server switch over, I haven't been able to pull up this thread using the search function. On my computer or devices, it's like this thread doesn't exist. Anybody else notice anything about the search function quirks now?Last edited by TH; 10-15-2017 at 09:59 PM.
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Tonight I played All of Me at 173. Ouch! My fingers were definitely not keeping up with my ears. And when they could keep up, they weren’t hitting the right notes. I made it into the mid-70s by the end of Superchops. Two nights ago I played All of Me at 144 and it was probably close to the best I’ve ever played jazz. Not perfect, but it seemed like the right tempo for the kinda of sounds I was trying to play.
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Hey that's pretty respectable! I'm really excited and curious to see what you're sounding like now. And I'm curious to see what your pre-game warm up is. Do you run through the form so you can visualize the next section before you're there? That's important, being aware of what the next step is. A lot of time is spent establishing a sound or tonality after you get to a change. I found that once I can hit the ground running on a new change, my ideas are more sure footed and I can feel the confidence it takes to leave space, breathe and make every note count. That's the real key to faster tempos in my book-not letting the unplayed music get out of control.
Originally Posted by wzpgsr
After the Roberts, you have the option of using those found resources to make music. We'd love to hear it!
David
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I love Reg's quote on that ....
"If you're in the moment , you're late"
Ha ha funny but its true ....
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Yes! I could feel that. Interesting to note that the idea of moving towards the next chord seemed a lot more critical and necessary at this tempo. Originally Posted by pingu
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One for the notebook/journal! With each week there are things we learn that no teacher can "give" you. And next week when we start the next tune at ballad, you fold in "looking ahead" or "simple at the start of a solo" and as the week progresses, it becomes glue. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
Space allows you to think. Space at the beginning of a phrase allows you to make a genuine idea. Space at the end allows you to create pickups and prep for the next change. Don't be bullied by the bar line. Take what you get at the start of the week and use it the next day. Take the scary near (and total) trainwrecks at the end of the week and use them to build a better track next week.
One of the best thing about being a player: You feel yourself growing.
Nice going wzpgsr!
David
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Here are a few choruses from my All of Me week. The first is at 96 bpm:
After re-listening to my takes at 144, I can hear that my time wasn't as solid as I thought. I like some of my ideas, but the fingers couldn't keep up!
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I'm having a lot of fun with this approach. After the Howard Roberts programme, it's great to be able to stretch out and use rhythm and space, though I catch myself having some noodliness happening. I think I need to work on hanging onto an idea and developing it, rather than moving from phrase to phrase... but it's enough for me just to keep up! It has sort of felt like cheating so far, though, given that I've been quite familiar with the tunes so far. When we hit on one that I don't know so well, that will be the real test.
Great tune this week, by the way. One of my favourites. Is it commonly in G, though? I think I've always played it in F (starting on Bb).
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By the way, David, it occurs to me that I don't believe I've ever heard you play. Any chance of you posting on some of these?
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Nice choice. And a coincidence. After spending last Saturday morning playing Autumn Leaves bass part transcription in Rob Gourlay’s book Walking in the footsteps of…Paul Chambers, I started to work on Just Friends.
There is an annalysis here of this song that generated previous interest and exchanges in this Forum:
Just Friends - detailed harmonic analysis of John Klenner's jazz classic.
One small Aha! moment here to me is that the first and second phrases are a melodic sequence: the first phrase (Just friends lovers no more) is followed by an identical second phrase (Just friends but not like before) transposed. But the harmony is different. An interesting explanation of why is given in the above linked resource.
But far from entering into those complexities beyond my level my first two day practice goals are the following:
Today
First. Listen. How it was originally sung in the early 30s:
Second: Memorize. The lyrics. I (think) have the melody and the structure clear already in my mind. However the exercise will be to check these against the given chart.
Third: just sing and comp the song on the guitar as in the given chart with no visual aids.
Fourth: play the structure by memory on the guitar in 3rds and 7hs, then 7hs and 3rds and then get them guiding tones linked. Before having clear this basic foundation for a solo not attempting to start soloing. I found the advice given by TruthHertz on avoiding rambling as essential to this exercise.
Tomorow
To internalize a song I like to learn to play it on guitar and bass.
So tomorow I will memorize one chorus of the bass line by PC and see how it fits with the chart. On a quick look I see that PC substituted the Bmin7 in measures 11 and 27 by F#min7/B7(b9), and the Db7 in the second half of measure 12 by G7 (the given chart has Dmin7/G7 (ii/V) in measure 32. And instead of G6, he plays Gmaj7 in measure 31.
Then I’ll write the chord functions as I see them, do the blocking exercise and only start with the 30 minutes improv./rest routine on the guitar if time permits on Wednesday.
At that point the rests will be devoted to repeated listening of:
That’s the plan. Lots of fun.
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I intentionally picked this one because it might be familiar. This lets us concentrate on just how we overlook things in thoughtful soloing if we're too familiar. So take the familiar and find the unexpected. Take the segments of the tune and play with motif. Allow yourself 4 eighth notes, half notes and see what you can do. When you think it's too easy, you're not digging deep enough! Originally Posted by Jehu
All the good stuff is hiding in unexpected places. Go to it!
David
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This tune reminds me of alternative routes to the tonic instead of ii-V7
ivm6-bVII-I
i was also working on bVI7-V7, but that’s not this songLast edited by NSJ; 10-18-2017 at 07:11 PM.
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Do you mean . . .
Fm6 to E7 to C
And
Ab7 to G7 to C
??
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Sorry typo corrected it. iv-6—bVII7-I Originally Posted by Doublea A
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I'm still lurking, gents. sorry, got a gig in the studio and had to learn a bunch of new material. doing a demo for somebody. but I'm mostly done with that and back to my studies now.
really appreciate the effort, David. this is great fun.
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Here's tonight's effort. Second round with Just Friends, 70 bpm. I wasn't terribly familiar with this tune before this week, so I've had to spend some time listening and learning the melody. I found it useful to outline the tune in scales a la Barry Harris, and also to base my first few takes improvising on the rhythm of the melody (basically keeping the rhythm, but changing the tones). I found that the latter approach really helped me treat the song as a ballad, and not just a series of comfortable target approaches. Anyways, here it is, warts and all:
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Barry Harris Changes?
A section
B° G6 Eb6 A°
GM7 % D6 Ab-6
C6 A° GM7 G6
E-6 C6 A° B°
ill leave the B section to somebody else cause I got to get to work.
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Whoa!! That's great! The notes are thoughtfully laid out and tell the story of the harmony. That's it! Originally Posted by wzpgsr
Keep doing what ever you're doing. It's working beautifully.
Thanks for that
David
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Great observation. As you point out, there are many ways to get to where you want to go. I'm trying to introduce tunes that will familiarize ourselves with different sounds before we need to reharmonize. Originally Posted by NSJ
If you're at a point in your playing where substitution is your challenge, then great, each tune can be reharmonized as fits your taste; that's what improvisation is about.
There are ways to substitute tonal centres, alternate dominant approaches, sequences and even approaches that purposely avoid tonality until the forms converge. All good. But make sure your foundations are solid, that the harmony that "everyone else knows" is evident in your story telling. If you listen to some out players, they'll make sure the tune is clear before the liberties are taken. Sonny Rollins is a great example. It also gives you a huge amount of material to use as a springboard when the piece "as is" is your starting point.
I'm looking forward to your adventures and revelations!
David
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Love to. A little while ago, I committed myself to a strict diet of fretless. I'm in the second month of a 6 month no-frets regimen. It's like a new instrument for me. I'll be happy to share something on this thread as soon as I move into the realm of control, which I'm hoping will be sooner rather than later! Originally Posted by Jehu
I am having fun with these tunes though.
David
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Hope everyone's having fun with this piece. One thing I've observed about going from slow to fast, the decisiveness in how I start a phrase is much easier, free of desperate habitual predictibility at slow speeds (big surprise) so I'm asking myself how much thought I put into planning a ballad solo, and the things that keep me from keeping that at higher speeds.
It's so easy to forget what I know when I miss a beat. So that's what's on my mind this week.
You guys?
David
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I started in on the SuperChops program just as that thread basically ended a couple of months ago. I’m in week 7 of it, but I think I may just continue with that method, applying it to the tunes in this thread. If any of the alumni from that thread think it’s a bad idea, please let me know.
Otherwise, I’m in starting with Just Friends. Already know the first two songs quite well.
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Personally, I got a ton out of the original superchops program. The rhythmic limitations really forced me to spend some time getting to know the neck a lot better. I feel a lot more comfortable now playing these somewhat simpler progressions, because I spent so much time struggling with the really complicated (to me) substitutions. Also, you only have six tunes to work on in 20 weeks, and I do think the repetition is extremely beneficial. Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt
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