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This is true but it surprises me that it was that bad. I can only say I have 3 Heritage Guitars, a blond JS, a Sunburst JS, and one of the 40 Ghost built D'angelico New Yorkers based on a 1961 D'angelico New Yorker. I might add when I bought the D'a ghost built 3 years ago it had basically not been played. I spent at least 9 months playing this guitar each day and hours adding. Right now, the guitar screams with voice and clarity. The neck is perfect and the workmanship second to none. It does not sound like a 1930's acoustic Dangelico or like L5, Super 400. It has a much more pointed clear sound, and the notes sing better for single line playing. When playing rhythm, it is very cutting because it is a bight guitar, that might the difference the 1960's D'a sound different than those built in the 1930. I think this has captured the vibe entirely.
Originally Posted by nyc chaz
My guess is you ran into a Heritage that missed something drastic. Not sure what that could have been, but we know not all carved top guitars sound good.
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10-28-2025 02:52 PM
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This guitar has a maple neck. I email GC, and they sent me pics of the neck, headstock and join. I bet it's a killer. I think Joe D owned one of these, if I'm not mistaken. Deacon, I respect your opinions about this, and I've also never played one of these. But I am so impressed with the Gibson JS that I got this summer, it's hard to imagine something better. Maybe different. Between you and Marty thought, there is enough of a sample size to say it's a high probability that this one sounds and plays awesomely. It sure looks good. I wonder if GC says it sounds and plays amazingly, and you get it to try, and you disagreed and think it is miserable, do they take the return?
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My experience with them is returns are easy, no questions, others have told me they had the same experience MF sent me 3 guitars and took 2 back (including shipping) no prob, I think GC has same policy. Originally Posted by skykomishone
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Here is my Heritage JS video and all acoustic just on iphone and I think it gives a telling of the depth of this this guitar
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Nice acoustic tone! And just on an iPhone.
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For those interested - I happened to be in the Allentown area today, so I stopped by GC to check out the guitar. Here is what I found:
1) The guitar has numerous buzzing throughout. I brought my notched straight edge, and the bow is about 1/16 in the middle and still buzzing all over. The fingerboard bow and fret plane bow are the same -which is good. They told me the truss rod works and can take the bow out.
2) The nut slots were cut way too deep, and someone tried to compensate by adding a huge neck relief to stop the buzzing. Additionally, two of the nut slots were filled with a green colored epoxy.
3) There is an exposed drilled hole by the tail pc bracket, and the original was likely replaced - and the replacement appears off center. There is also a partially revealed black area under the current tail pc bracket,
4) The overall condition is excellent plus, with just a few areas of slight worming on the back- but very minor . The top is extremely clean !!
There were two people from Martin Guitars Quality Control Dept in the acoustic room while I was evaluating the guitar- and they were just shaking their head.
My contact at GC Allentown is John - he’s a very, very nice guy and I showed him all the issues. When he saw the off center tail pc bracket - and exposed hole he was shocked, and at that moment he knew the guitar was really overpriced - and will likely now be a much harder sale.
They will be posting pics of the tail pc bracket area.
I told John last week over the phone that 5k was too high without the floating pickup. At that time he offered it to me for $4500 out the door.
After today. I believe this guitar can be purchased in the 3k’s.
I’m a collector - so this is something I wouldn’t buy, because of the tail pc. But , if you can live with the tail pc issue, then all that’s needed is to straighten the neck and shim the nut, and then do a basic light fret level , if needed.
So there you have it - it’s ripe for a low offer.
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If I did not have 2 of these myself, I would buy it and of course could get it up to speed.
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Wow, Steve. You, sir, are an extraordinary gentleman. Appreciate you checking it out and touching base with such a thorough and detailed report. The forum is lucky to have you among the rest of the fantastic group. Originally Posted by QAman
Perhaps someone will take advantage and strike a fine deal.
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So how do they know the truss rod works if they saw the bow in the neck and didn't fix it?Seems strange to me but it is GC. Originally Posted by QAman
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Great that you had a look at this, Steve. Thank you. I had the same offer too, out the door, but balking. Originally Posted by QAman
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Last week I stopped in briefly to check out the guitar and noticed some issues - but didn’t have time to perform a close examination. Later in the day I called John and expressed my concerns with the buzzing past the 7th fret region . I also noticed the nut was cut low. So I asked him to straighten the neck to see if buzzing moved closed to the nut . He called back and reported that buzzing did get much worse after straightening neck - and did indeed move close to the nut. Actually, the entire guitar was buzzing terribly at that point - so he put the relief back. Originally Posted by nyc chaz
During that conversation last week, I told him I’d swing by the following week to take a closer look at the guitar - which was today. I also pulled back on headstock ( today) to see if fret plane looked somewhat straight after constraining-and it seemed fine.
I do my own set up work( fret leveling , nut slots etc) and felt confident that I could certainly get this guitar playing properly, but after seeing the tail pc issue - my interest ended.
I told John that if they tried selling the guitar “ as is” it will be returned for sure. I advised his tech to either make a new nut, or try gluing a pc of thin ( .010 ) hard wood shim under the nut to get the guitar playable.
Last week I took some pics which I’ve attached.
But unfortunately I didn’t take any pics of the tail pc today , since they were going to add those with the description.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk lolLast edited by QAman; 11-06-2025 at 07:28 PM.
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Thanks for the kind words. I noticed some interest here with the guitar , so I decided to swing by and report. If the tail pc issue was not present - this guitar would very likely be in my collection. My target price was 4K cash out the door - and I was prepared to make that transaction. Originally Posted by sbeishline
Wow, Steve. You, sir, are an extraordinary gentleman. Appreciate you checking it out and touching base with such a thorough and detailed report. The forum is lucky to have you among the rest of the fantastic group.
Perhaps someone will take advantage and strike a fine deal.
This is a classic case of using knowledge to your advantage during a negotiation. I pointed out the reduced value of no floating pick up, along with all the issues, and John agreed it was way overpriced - especially now after seeing the tail pc issue.
So, for someone , this could be a great guitar with some basic set up. It’s super clean !
Ok - that’s all I have to share.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by QAman; 11-07-2025 at 08:08 AM.
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You’re welcome Tom. These guitars were made in small qty’s from 1989 to around 2000. Originally Posted by tomvwash
I already own a spectacular blonde HJS from the early period - and it has a very clear powerful voice.
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I wonder if that was made as an acoustic, perhaps as a special order. The pickguard clearly has never had a pickup mounted on or near it, and looks like a Heritage pickguard. The neck is not undercut for a pickup bracket, either.
I can't imagine that Heritage would have let it off the premises with the nut problem, so that was likely acquired later at the hands of some hamfist with nut files. That's why I've never bought nut files...
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This is just my take after playing many Heritage Golden Eagles and only one Heritage Johnny Smith.
I have never been impressed by any of them. And that’s a lot of guitars that were not on the same level of both old and newer Gibson Archtops with floating pickups.
I know some here rave about them,but they carve the plates to thin for my tonal tastes.And the necks are all pencil thin as opposed to the Gibson medium to larger offerings.
I also understand the older guys at Heritage were the same guys from Gibson from the mid 1960’s through Norlin era.
And some of the Gibson J.S models during Norlin used plainer maple. To me it sounded just fine! But I wonder if Aaron Cowels was primarily responsible for those better sounding Johnny Smiths?
Again this is just my take, so you might feel totally different.
But before I’d ever look at a Heritage,I’d buy a Mark Campellone used guitar!
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I'd like to amend my previous statement saying by this guitar is overpriced by a grand. This guitar is overpriced by about $2500. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
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There are a few differences. All HJS are cross braced. The scale is 25". The nut is 1 3/4". There are abalone inlays and some other cosmetics. The woods are generally more select. Originally Posted by Rickco
I don't know why Johnny left Heritage for Guild. I believe Johnny got about $500 per instrument Heritage made in his name. The retail price reflected that. My understanding is that Johnny was very fussy, and he owned a guitar shop himself at the time and sold instruments. I also know that he was fussy during the Gibson days with some of the same people. I observed Heritage making at least two 18" HJSs. I also know they made at least two 16" guitars that were essentially HJS but did not have his name on them.
Johnny and the builders went back many years. Johnny has been in Kalamazoo quite a few times. But the hayday of the acoustic jazz box had passed, and the labor to build each didn't change.
Some of the upper end Heritage archtops did not have pickups if ordered that way. More of them had two pickguards, with and without. Sometimes the pickup output was from the pickguard, not an endpin jack.
Hard to tell.
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The Heritage JS began with the same wood sourcing that Gibson had via JP Moats. The work was done by the same methods and machines as Gibson. The bodies were built by many of the same men, and the necks were carved by Marv Lamb in both cases for the most part. Aaron Cowles did the back and top plates in most cases.
The bodies are slightly smaller in the Heritage guitar.
Recall that Johnny withdrew from Gibson over quality issues.
The two models will sound different acoustically because the body cavity is smaller in the HJS. The length and depth are slightly less. Some will find that more comfortable.
From an emotional point of view, I grew up lusting for a Gibson JS. The Gibson builders thought it was a good guitar, but I thought it must be the best. They would say it's not on the same level as a Citation and is a production guitar. There were three people who did the plates for the L-5, Super 400, and beyond. Aaron Cowles and Marv Lamb were two of them, and they did the HJS.
I was told that the reasons JS departed from Heritage were multiple. First, not many of his model were selling. Second, Heritage marketed as being open to make custom changes to an order. The 18" and 16" versions likely pissed off Johnny.
Heritage made the HJS only a few years. Johnny then moved back to Guild, who made his first factory guitars. Few were made, and the specs were quite different than the Gibson JS and the HJS.
No one will likely get one of these, but Heritage's finest acoustic archtop is the American Eagle. Benedetto reviewed it in his book on archtops and gave it high praise. If it didn't have all the Americana on it, it would have sold better. Our old dead friend Patrick picked up mine as a favor. He hated the design a lot and suggested I shouldn't get it. It took two weeks for him to make a trip to Kalamazoo, as he was a Heritage regional rep. In that time he cleaned it up, set it up, and played it. He did not want to like the guitar at all. After a week he told me it is one of the best sounding and playing guitars he's ever touched. Since then others have said the same. I mention this because one "hears" a guitar and makes some judgment before the strings vibrate. I've learned that long ago. We are strongly influenced by the sight, the setting and the feel of an instrument before it's played. It may be related in a way to the McGurk effect or the so-called multisensory integration effect.
So here's how I see it. The same woods built by the same people using the same equipment and technique but with mildly different body dimensions, approved by Johnny Smith, somehow make an inferior product. That's a bridge too far.
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Here's what AI tells me.
Quality concerns for Johnny Smith guitars center on inconsistency, particularly with Gibson models made from the late 1960s through the 1970s. Some users report significant quality control issues like poor fretwork, "gassing out" pickguards, and "boat anchor" deadness, while others have found impressive examples. These problems were a factor in Johnny Smith's eventual departure from Gibson. Guild and Heritage models also have their own points of discussion, but the main quality concerns are often linked to the Gibson era.
Gibson Johnny Smith
- Inconsistency: Gibson quality control was reportedly inconsistent during certain periods, leading to a wide variation in quality from one guitar to another.
- Johnny Smith's departure: The quality issues with the Gibson models were a major reason for Johnny Smith ending his endorsement deal with Gibson.
- Common issues:
- Poor fretwork
- "Gassing out" pickguards, where the pickguard material degrades
- Tarnishing on hardware
- Uneven neck profiles and construction, sometimes resulting in poor feel or acoustic properties
- Varying opinions: Some players have had "underwhelming" experiences, while others have found their Gibson Johnny Smith to be "seriously impressive".
Guild and Heritage Johnny Smith
- Guild Johnny Smith: Johnny Smith reportedly had issues with the initial construction of the Guild model, such as the use of laminated spruce instead of solid wood tops, but these were later addressed in the Guild Benedetto series.
- Heritage Johnny Smith: Some users report similar quality to the Gibson models, built by the same workers, but with inconsistencies in the specifications over time.
Other considerations
- Pickup issues: Original pickups are often replaced, leading to a less authentic sound. The original pickups can also be subject to issues like the pickguard "gassing out".
- "Dogs" vs. "gems": As with many vintage guitars, there is a wide range of quality. The term "dog" refers to a subpar instrument, while a "gem" is a great one.
- "Caveat emptor": It is essential to carefully inspect any used Johnny Smith guitar before purchasing it.
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Marty Grass, I’m glad you have Heritage Archtops that you enjoy! And did not mean insult your thoughts or your guitars.
I’ve owned several Heritage guitars albeit thinline Roy Clark,535, and a hollow 550 model.
And while they were perfectly fine instruments and in no way a carved top. I always found them different feel than Gibsons.
But again, I have must have played at least a dozen Golden Eagles and one J.S.Rose model. This was at Lavonne Music, a former dealer for both Heritage and Gibson guitars.
The owner was a collector of Archtops and Mandolins from the past. Mostly Epiphone and Gibsons. So as I said earlier, this was just my take on Heritage carved Archtops overall.
I will say he owned a particularly great sounding Heritage Sweet 16. But again the neck was really small.
So either you must have gotten really great Heritage Archtops, or maybe we just have really different tastes in guitars
Again sorry if I offended you, and thanks so much for all the background info on Johnny Smith guitars!Last edited by jads57; 11-07-2025 at 01:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by QAman
Guitar Denter has changed its discount policy several times over the years. Originally Posted by tomvwash
At one time it was, 'The store manager can give 10% but Hollywood must approve anything bigger than that."
For the past several years it has been, "No discounts*. We will discount it every 90 days."
* If you're serious about a $xx,xxxx instrument I'd be shocked if they aren't allowed to call Hollywood for approval.
But for everything else here might be wiggle-room on trades. I expect that if they really want to see something leave the building they can be selective about the comps on your trade deal . . . effectively lowering the price. But even if that's true they can't just make it up altogether.
I sell a bunch of low and medium-low value stuff to GC. Instead of cleaning, fixing glitches, taking photos, listing on Reverb, dealing with tire-kickers, closing at a discount, packing and shipping . . . 50% of GC's retail price in cash out the door is pretty attractive.
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I play my Golden Eagle next to a '34 L5, '35 16" walnut Broadway, '42 L7, '42 Epi Ritz, '60s 175 and a couple luthier guitars. Ive played the GE next to an early Gib JS. If I had to choose Id be lost. I find them all equal and special, If Im reaching for something to strum I usually grab the Ritz, 15" 4lbs 6oz probably the lowest value of them all. If Im only keeping one its my Solomon but its all personal taste. Strings, Pick, setup, nails, ability not to mention room or if its plugged into anything make far more difference than is being considered in any guitar evaluation. I imagine 2 different players on the same Heritage JS Rose will also sound completely different. I would add one mans "jazz sound" is another mans "whats wrong with your amp?"
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