Pat Metheny on the best guitar player he has ever heard: Pasquale Grasso

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-25-2017, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Anyway got 80/81 cos it seems like cool record and I hadn't really checked it out. I prefer the early Pat.

I know this was just a throw away line, but 80/81 was released in 1980, thirty-seven years ago. There isn't a lot of Pat recording earlier than that! Three recordings with Gary Burton's groups, Jaco, and his first three albums: Bright Size Life, Watercolors, and New Chatauqua.

**christianm77** · 03-25-2017, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I know this was just a throw away line, but 80/81 was released in 1980, thirty-seven years ago. There isn't a lot of Pat recording earlier than that! Three recordings with Gary Burton's groups, Jaco, and his first three albums: Bright Size Life, Watercolors, and New Chatauqua.

That's what I meant...

**destinytot** · 03-25-2017, 11:08 AM

Vinyl. Grasso on vinyl. Gimme.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-25-2017, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by christianm77

That's what I meant...

Okay. Early Pat for me is before he got the full Brazilian

**mrcee** · 03-25-2017, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by fasstrack

A guy at an ashram once told me that ego (as the word's commonly used) was 'like gas for your car'. I buy that, you need a certain amount of ego and moxie just to deal with people and get through the day w/o being beat up too bad by people or life.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but when 'ego' balloons into something harmful/destrucive to oneself or others, that's trouble aplenty...

Everyone's got an ego, you just want it to be healthy. You can use gas to power your car or for a molotov cocktail. The choice is yours.

**A. Kingstone** · 03-25-2017, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Okay. Early Pat for me is before he got the full Brazilian

Pat cut his hair?

**NSJ** · 03-25-2017, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by A. Kingstone

Pat cut his hair?

Wouldn't that void the warranty if he were to take a scissors to it, rendering it unreturnable?

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-25-2017, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

Wouldn't that void the warranty if he were to take a scissors to it, rendering it unreturnable?

There's got to be a photoshop of him bald.

joaopaz · 03-25-2017, 07:01 PM

The lenght and contribuitons for this thread speaks volumes about the megalithic importance of Pat Metheny to jazz guitar today... whether you like him/it/his playing or not...

**nick1994** · 03-25-2017, 08:24 PM

the only reason I would go to see someone like Grasso is for the virtuosity, not the music, I think that would be a pretty tokenistic thing that would wear off pretty quick. Seems like he doesn't want to move from his 1940s box, which is fine but seems very limiting. I wonder how much success he could have doing that.

**NSJ** · 03-25-2017, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by nick1994

the only reason I would go to see someone like Grasso is for the virtuosity, not the music, I think that would be a pretty tokenistic thing that would wear off pretty quick. Seems like he doesn't want to move from his 1940s box, which is fine but seems very limiting. I wonder how much success he could have doing that.

that 1940s box you look down upon as limiting was built by Charlie Parker. I could never get tired listening and being inspired by Bird. Let's be honest, people say jazz began with Pops (factually and chronilogically true).

But the music, as music, really came into its own with Bird. What an insatiable appetite he had to think and play on his feet, where endless ideas incessantly flowed ad infinitum.

Jimmy Raney once said all he wanted to was copy Charlie Parker on the guitar. That was his one lifetime aspiration.

I could never ever get tired of listening to Jimmy. Never.

The jury's still out, but I suspect it may be the same for our Italian Superhero, over here.

**nick1994** · 03-25-2017, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

that 1940s box you look down upon as limiting was built by Charlie Parker. I could never get tired listening and being inspired by Bird. Let's be honest, people say jazz began with Pops (factually and chronilogically true).

But the music, as music, really came into its own with Bird. What an insatiable appetite he had to think and play on his feet, where endless ideas incessantly flowed ad infinitum.

Jimmy Raney once said all he wanted to was copy Charlie Parker on the guitar. That was his one lifetime aspiration.

I could never ever get tired of listening to Jimmy. Never.

The jury's still out, but I suspect it may be the same for our Italian Superhero, over here.

I don't have a problem with the period, more so the notion of staying in one period is what I see as limiting. I have the same issue with modern players who only listen to or study other modern players.

**rictroll** · 03-25-2017, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

True - but neither is that ability necessarily without merit. Mr Metheny himself called Mr Grasso 'the future'.

There may be cliches... but there isn't really any regurgitating going on, is there? What's going on could be described differently.

Imo, the way Mr Grasso 'owns and inhabits' (cliche?) specialised repertoire is masterful - even if it isn't fully mature.

I have no criticism of Mr. Grasso. I think he's building upon the tradition in a remarkable way.

**rictroll** · 03-25-2017, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by drbhrb

Who cares? He's keeping an important tradition alive in spectacular fashion. Artist shmarists. Let's see what great leaps in jazz you've innovated.

Charming response. My post was not clear perhaps - I'm not critical of Grasso - I think he's great.

In light of some of the other posts I was trying to break out of the modern/tradition debate and get back to the importance of an individual voice.

**Vladan** · 03-26-2017, 12:02 PM

I wonder, who is the best guitar player Metheny has never heard?

Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube

**destinytot** · 03-26-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Vladan

I wonder, who is the best guitar player Metheny has never heard?

Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube

I may have heard that guitarist yesterday - on a private recording.

At a private event last night, the sound engineer let me listen to some of his personal live recordings from international jazz festivals since the '80s. His recordings of Chet are amazing - and I think Philip Catherine's playing qualifies.

(Yes, I am after a copy.)

**Robertkoa** · 03-26-2017, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Urghhh, not a Min7, the devils chord!!!!!!

(Well it's cool if you are playing soul)

Seriously though... Good advice.... Roll off the bass too. Bassists hate it when guitarists have to much bass on their sound. What you need is lots of midrange in fact, which is why 175's are so handy.

Well one of my favorite Tonic Voicings is the Minor 11th with the b3rd and the 4th right next to each other- no room for the Devil to slip in there.

But we do have Tritones- the Devil's Interval.

The most Devilish Chord of all is the Minor 666th Chord with the 6th tripled in two octaves and unisoned in one octave.

This Chord has never been used in Jazz because they are S-c-a-r-e-d or *could just be it sounds bad and not playable by itself on a Guitar or Piano.

*or maybe I made it up in lieu of actual Musical Knowledge.

One of the best things to do about an arrogant Musician...is to get so effing good that you can 'cut' him Musically.. but then you may become a little arrogant yourself...

**christianm77** · 03-26-2017, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I may have heard that guitarist yesterday - on a private recording.

At a private event last night, the sound engineer let me listen to some of his personal live recordings from international jazz festivals since the '80s. His recordings of Chet are amazing - and I think Philip Catherine's playing qualifies.

(Yes, I am after a copy.)

Philip Catherine is a badass. But does Metheny not know of him?

**destinytot** · 03-26-2017, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by christianm77

Philip Catherine is a badass. But does Metheny not know of him?

He sure is - but the private recording I heard yesterday captured something beyond badass. Mr Metheny hasn't heard that - and the (drumless) take of Solar might get his attention.

**mr. beaumont** · 03-26-2017, 08:08 PM

No slight to Metheny or Grasso, but Catherine's a contemporary of Metheny. Pat probably would never comment on him.

Grasso's a saucy kid to Pat.

Catherine''s one of the best living. One of the most tasteful players on the planet.

**christianm77** · 03-26-2017, 08:13 PM

Also unlike Pat, Catherine can also actually properly swing.

*Raises handbag*

**mr. beaumont** · 03-26-2017, 08:15 PM

Lol, Pat can swing...just...never does.

P.C., though...so underappreciated.

**christianm77** · 03-26-2017, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Lol, Pat can swing...just...never does.

Ha! Prove it.

Or are you trollin' me bro?

P.C., though...so underappreciated.

Very much so! I'm only really discovering him.

**NSJ** · 03-26-2017, 08:29 PM

PM was on the Lenny Breau documentary put together by Breau's daughter, singng his high praises for being utterly unique in the jazz world. He asked Breau how he does his harmonics.

Never heard of this Catherine fellow, I'll check him out. Straight ahead, I presume. One does not use the words "properly swing" with the, ahem, avant-guarde types.

**christianm77** · 03-26-2017, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by NSJ

PM was on the Lenny Breau documentary put together by Breau's daughter, singng his high praises for being utterly unique in the jazz world. He asked Breau how he does his harmonics.

Never heard of this Catherine fellow, I'll check him out. Straight ahead, I presume. One does not use the words "properly swing" with the, ahem, avant-guarde types.

He also played with Focus (prog rock group) and did fusion stuff too as well as Dexter Gordon, Chet etc.