George Benson's approach to playing chord changes

[Tag101]

Wes seemed to do that diagonal fingering too, right? (Using mostly three fingers and sliding around a lot, but not in a random fashion.)

I don't know how this will sound but it seems to me that my favorite players did not seek "maximum freedom" on the instrument (--the ideal of any playing any note with any finger at any point on the guitar at any time) but seemed to restrict themselves in ways. They found things that worked and worked them to death. They weren't ashamed to use a line over and over and over. It seems that they thought in lines...

This was really Richie Harts main point. Transcribe as many melodic lines as you can. Feel free to force them in at first if you have to, because once digested, they will come out in many different ways, on all different parts of the beat, etc etc. ( I would learn a line, and have trouble using it, so he would count off the beats and tell me exactly where to start it, and how to resolve it. I would get frustrated, and he would tell me just relax. They will be coming out on their own in time. He was right. Things I struggled with, would be flowing out without a thought a month or two later) He was all about learning as many songs and melodies as you can. The tonic/dominant thing was just so you understood how things were working behind the lines. With me coming from a rock background and still playing in bands 3-4 nights a week, there was a lot of "STOP RESOLVING TO THE ROOT!!!! ANYTHING BUT THE ROOT"!! I still have tons of lessons on tape from all those years ago, and its funny listening to them, and how right he was. Of course I did not agree with him back then, and fought him tooth and nail the entire time! If it were 50 years ago, he would have been smacking my knuckles with a ruler for sure.

[Tag101]

As it happens, I think I have only learned one Benson lick in my entire life. It's on 'Summertime' from 'It's Uptown'. He does this rapid sort of double-time minor pentatonic blues-type lick. I only managed to play it by using a lot of left-hand pull-offs/hammer-ons (Benson probably picked the whole thing). Occasionally I still try it and I usually fluff it!

I wouldn't mind trying to steal a few more things off that record sometime. There's a great minor blues/latin thing called 'Eternally' (?) - some fantastic lines in that one.

That album and "Cookbook" are off the charts. Slowing down those fast blues tunes and copping the lines is a real eye opener. No matter how fast he is playing, he is in total control, and playing very melodically and phrasing his arse off. Amazing stuff. For example, listen to the maturity on "Bossa Rocker" for someone that age. The feel and confidence is off the charts.

[MarkRhodes]

Miles Davis said the same thing in his book. Something along the lines of "Do a lot of listening, copy what you like, and edit out what you do not like.". Lol!

When he puts it like that, it sounds simple, doesn't it? Miles is an interesting case because he is not regarded (by most) as having the chops on the trumpet that some of his peers did, yet Miles had one of the most distinctive voices in jazz.

Wes had a distinctive voice too, and so does Kenny Burrell. When you hear them play, you always feel you're hearing THEM, and the notes they choose and how they play is a way to manifest their musical selves. When you think about it, part of being so distinctive---Django is another one, and so is Charlie Christian---seems to be that there are quite a few things you DON'T do and some things you do pretty much all the time..... (Just thinking out loud here...)

[Tag101]

When he puts it like that, it sounds simple, doesn't it? Miles is an interesting case because he is not regarded (by most) as having the chops on the trumpet that some of his peers did, yet Miles had one of the most distinctive voices in jazz.

Wes had a distinctive voice too, and so does Kenny Burrell. When you hear them play, you always feel you're hearing THEM, and the notes they choose and how they play is a way to manifest their musical selves. When you think about it, part of being so distinctive---Django is another one, and so is Charlie Christian---seems to be that there are quite a few things you DON'T do and some things you do pretty much all the time..... (Just thinking out loud here...)

Man, chops aside, and his personality bugged me a lot (going by what I read), but Miles was without a doubt one of the best trumpet players ever IMO. His chops may not have been what some guys like Dizzy, Brown, and Arturo have, but he had chops for sure. (Listen to some of his bop playing) To me, he played some of the greatest trumpet solos ever during all parts of his career. Some of the most emotional and chill producing solos without a doubt. At least for my taste.

[Breezin78]

Check out the line George plays on the V at 5:28 (maybe back up 10 seconds first)...

Even the great James Moody behind him starts crackin up and shakes his head for a second

he be like "dayyuuum George, you was going nuts there!"

I love that

[MarkRhodes]

Man, chops aside, and his personality bugged me a lot (going by what I read), but Miles was without a doubt one of the best trumpet players ever IMO. His chops may not have been what some guys like Dizzy, Brown, and Arturo have, but he had chops for sure. (Listen to some of his bop playing) To me, he played some of the greatest trumpet solos ever during all parts of his career. Some of the most emotional and chill producing solos without a doubt. At least for my taste.

I love Miles! I know he had some chops when he played with Bird but he also said he quit the band every night after a gig because the tempos were just too fast. I really don't think Miles was ever as good as Diz or Clifford Brown. (And they were creative guys too, not just chops machines.) But Miles made more records I love and that's that.

Here is one of my all-time favorite Miles solos, from Sonny Rollins's "Doxy." The first chorus is not hard to play but who other than Miles would have thought to play it????

[destinytot]

This thread brought to mind a post made by Henry Johnson, over on the now-defunct forum at Mark Stefani's site. The OP, by Dave Illig, was about how to develop chops, but HJ's post gave some insight into what he personally learned from Benson in regard to the importance of transcribing ("copping licks" would be more accurate, since I don't believe Benson wrote anything down). He posts three times on the thread, but his first -- post #8, I beleive -- is the one most relevant to our topic here:

Vision Music :: View topic - CHOPS

'Select - Print - Save as PDF'

Thanks!

[Tag101]

Check out the line George plays on the V at 5:28 (maybe back up 10 seconds first)...

Even the great James Moody behind him starts crackin up and shakes his head for a second

he be like "dayyuuum George, you was going nuts there!"

I love that

That entire solo is fantastic. There is another take of that tune on that tour thats just as good too. It does not matter what instrument its played on. Its just stunning jazz playing PERIOD.

The only other guitar player I hear that has that kind of variety, technique, and flow of ideas is Django, and of course thats swing. I have always thought that if it were possible with a time machine, to have George and Django make an album together. They both seemed to have that competitive mind set that would have pushed each other to the limits, while having the time of their lives. I dont see either of them laying back to make a "nice music" recording. It would have been a cutting contest on every tune, and all of us earthling listeners would be the winners!

[Breezin78]

Tag,

What do you think George was doing there? Pretend I'm Miles Davis, and I'm calling you up

"Hey George you bad blinkety-blank, what in the world was you thinking on that V chord back to the F?" Lol

[Tag101]

I love Miles! I know he had some chops when he played with Bird but he also said he quit the band every night after a gig because the tempos were just too fast. I really don't think Miles was ever as good as Diz or Clifford Brown. (And they were creative guys too, not just chops machines.) But Miles made more records I love and that's that.

Here is one of my all-time favorite Miles solos, from Sonny Rollins's "Doxy." The first chorus is not hard to play but who other than Miles would have thought to play it????

Thats a good one! Its not the space he leaves, its WHERE he leaves the spaces. Richie gave me one of the best exercises I have come across, but it takes another person. Start playing over a tune you like, and have the other person say "Start" and "STOP" at random times. You have to only play when they say so. Tape it and listen back. You will hardly recognize your own playing. It breaks up your phrases in ways that are not natural to you, and you have to react to everything. Killer way to improve your playing once you are comfortable with a tune.

[christianm77]

That entire solo is fantastic. There is another take of that tune on that tour thats just as good too. It does not matter what instrument its played on. Its just stunning jazz playing PERIOD.

The only other guitar player I hear that has that kind of variety, technique, and flow of ideas is Django, and of course thats swing. I have always thought that if it were possible with a time machine, to have George and Django make an album together. They both seemed to have that competitive mind set that would have pushed each other to the limits, while having the time of their lives. I dont see either of them laying back to make a "nice music" recording. It would have been a cutting contest on every tune, and all of us earthling listeners would be the winners!

George always reminds me of Django, much more than Wes...

[Tag101]

Tag,

What do you think George was doing there? Pretend I'm Miles Davis, and I'm calling you up

"Hey George you bad blinkety-blank, what in the world was you thinking on that V chord back to the F?" Lol

Miles, you are kidding right? Piece of cake. I was just jumping from one of my G. Green licks to one of my Parker licks!


Seriously, watch him. He is scatting, and just playing what he is singing. Unlike when I try it, I sing what I am playing. The two are polar opposites. George is playing from the brain to the fingers, I am playing from the fingers to the brain.

[Tag101]

George always reminds me of Django, much more than Wes...

I totally agree. He plays a solo on a Chet Atkins album that sounds like he is channeling Django at places.

[Breezin78]

You can hear GB reproduce some Django lines (from Nuages?) verbatim on "Shadow of your Smile"

[grahambop]

Tag,

What do you think George was doing there? Pretend I'm Miles Davis, and I'm calling you up

"Hey George you bad blinkety-blank, what in the world was you thinking on that V chord back to the F?" Lol

Talking of Miles Davis phoning people, I think it was Wayne Shorter's biog. where I read about Miles phoning Wayne to ask him to join his group. Wayne just thought it was one of his friends impersonating Miles for a joke, so he rang off.

Then I read Herbie Hancock's biog. and he had a similar reaction when Miles phoned him the first time.

Then I read Benson's biog. and guess what, George told Miles to get lost too, thinking it was a joke!

Poor old Miles, he must have got really pissed off every time he made a phone call and nobody believed it was him!

[nick1994]

Talking of Miles Davis phoning people, I think it was Wayne Shorter's biog. where I read about Miles phoning Wayne to ask him to join his group. Wayne just thought it was one of his friends impersonating Miles for a joke, so he rang off.

Then I read Herbie Hancock's biog. and he had a similar reaction when Miles phoned him the first time.

Then I read Benson's biog. and guess what, George told Miles to get lost too, thinking it was a joke!

Poor old Miles, he must have got really pissed off every time he made a phone call and nobody believed it was him!

Funny, that same thing happened to piano player Mike Nock, who got a call from miles and was asked to play with him and because he was so shocked by the call he muffled a bit and miles hung up on him.

[grahambop]

Funny, that same thing happened to piano player Mike Nock, who got a call from miles and was asked to play with him and because he was so shocked by the call he muffled a bit and miles hung up on him.

Actually I think it's quite a common story. Dexter Gordon said he got a call from Marshall Royal asking him to join Lionel Hampton's band. Dexter was still at school so he assumed it was a joke by one of his friends and told him to get lost!

[Tag101]

Talking of Miles Davis phoning people, I think it was Wayne Shorter's biog. where I read about Miles phoning Wayne to ask him to join his group. Wayne just thought it was one of his friends impersonating Miles for a joke, so he rang off.

Then I read Herbie Hancock's biog. and he had a similar reaction when Miles phoned him the first time.

Then I read Benson's biog. and guess what, George told Miles to get lost too, thinking it was a joke!

Poor old Miles, he must have got really pissed off every time he made a phone call and nobody believed it was him!

Funny! I did the same thing when he called me!

[Groyniad]

i have to say i'm still not that nuts about what george plays (you know i'm way more into parker, evans, bud powell, sonny rollins etc. etc.) its the way he plays what he plays i'm crazy about. the feel.

i think the hyper-assurance and rhythmical infallibility, the paradox of producing such horn like flow with such staccato phrasing - could appear in playing that deployed a very different vocabulary. i mean it appears in different clothes even within benson's own output (i.e. the perfect feel appears when he's playing with count Basie, when he's playing be-bop (shadow of your smile etc.) and when he's playing breezin etc.

i would have loved to hear the album he could have made with bill evans.

and don't get me wrong - if he's playing jazz especially - i love what he plays too. just not the way i do with some other players. the point is that the thing with him is his feel. i really don't think (short of django maybe) i've heard that sort of all-conquering confidence in any other guitar player. its the dog's bollocks.

[Tag101]

i really don't think (short of django maybe) i've heard that sort of all-conquering confidence in any other guitar player.

I agree with that. Those two guys are at the absolute top of the heap IMO. Going one step farther, I think Django may have been #1. At that level, it comes down to flow of ideas, and as great as GBs is, listening to Django and reading what S.Grappelli and others who played with him had to say, he seemed to be able to play for hours on a tune without making a mistake or repeating himself. He talked about how they use to have after hour competitions with players of all instruments improvising on a given tune. When someone made a mistake or or started repeating themselves, they had to step out. Grappelli said Django would be the last man standing every time, and said something along the lines of he could play a blues all day without running out of ideas!

[ecj]

I agree with that. Those two guys are at the absolute top of the heap IMO. Going one step farther, I think Django may have been #1. At that level, it comes down to flow of ideas, and as great as GBs is, listening to Django and reading what S.Grappelli and others who played with him had to say, he seemed to be able to play for hours on a tune without making a mistake or repeating himself. He talked about how they use to have after hour competitions with players of all instruments improvising on a given tune. When someone made a mistake or or started repeating themselves, they had to step out. Grappelli said Django would be the last man standing every time, and said something along the lines of he could play a blues all day without running out of ideas!

That's a cool story.

I'd put Wes Montgomery up there, too. He has the best ideas of any jazz guitarist, imo. Some of the stuff he comes up with while soloing is just ridiculous.

The whole octave and block chord soloing approach really extends the range of what kind of musical statements he can make.

[Groyniad]

I agree with that. Those two guys are at the absolute top of the heap IMO. Going one step farther, I think Django may have been #1. At that level, it comes down to flow of ideas, and as great as GBs is, listening to Django and reading what S.Grappelli and others who played with him had to say, he seemed to be able to play for hours on a tune without making a mistake or repeating himself. He talked about how they use to have after hour competitions with players of all instruments improvising on a given tune. When someone made a mistake or or started repeating themselves, they had to step out. Grappelli said Django would be the last man standing every time, and said something along the lines of he could play a blues all day without running out of ideas!

i agree with you about django being number one. its sheer musicality that counts - not whether you're playing swing or bop or whatnot. i tend not to listen to django as much as i listen to later players - but i've always thought of him as the ultimate jazz guitarist. its in every phrase he plays. he grabs you instantly and never lets your attention wander - he forces you to listen and follow just by consistently coming up with compelling (usually exuberant) ideas you can't help but hear out. it never fails him. there's never a dull moment. and i'm not at all surprised to hear that he could keep it up till everyone else was passing out.

there's a real link between django and gb too i think.

in one sense it comes down to how well players are able to overcome a distinctive set of physical challenges that the guitar sets the improvising musician. (a set of challenges that have no counterpart for horn players or piano players - this is a whole topic obviously). it would be interesting to think that the two guitarists that have made the guitar work best in jazz improvisation each use a very staccato phrasing style (most notes picked - relatively few slurs) that very effectively meets these challenges. they each developed the capacity to play banks of sixteenths (even at quite bright tempos) with every note articulated perfectly - and this (perhaps surprisingly) allowed them to phrase fluidly (at any tempo - not just bright ones) and in a way that swings as good as anything you've ever heard from a horn or a piano. (of course, neither of them actually play 'banks' of sixteenth notes at bright tempos, or even medium ones. but they tend to lace what they play with sixteenth note passages that are crucial to the feel.)

this is why benson's picking technique generates and sustains so much interest.

it sounds right to me to say that django and gb share a staccato style (will articulate anything at any tempo if desired) - and that their mastery of this sort of style is a large part of what allows them both to play with such distinctive freedom and exuberance. they each make it sound as (physically) easy to invent at high tempos on the guitar as it can be on alto or piano. they don't depend on any (or many) tricks based on the quirks of the guitar (slides, hammer-ons etc.) - they can just play every note at pretty much any tempo.

[Tag101]

i agree with you about django being number one. its sheer musicality that counts - not whether you're playing swing or bop or whatnot. i tend not to listen to django as much as i listen to later players - but i've always thought of him as the ultimate jazz guitarist. its in every phrase he plays. he grabs you instantly and never lets your attention wander - he forces you to listen and follow just by consistently coming up with compelling (usually exuberant) ideas you can't help but hear out. it never fails him. there's never a dull moment. and i'm not at all surprised to hear that he could keep it up till everyone else was passing out.

there's a real link between django and gb too i think.

in one sense it comes down to how well players are able to overcome a distinctive set of physical challenges that the guitar sets the improvising musician. (a set of challenges that have no counterpart for horn players or piano players - this is a whole topic obviously). it would be interesting to think that the two guitarists that have made the guitar work best in jazz improvisation each use a very staccato phrasing style (most notes picked - relatively few slurs) that very effectively meets these challenges. they each developed the capacity to play banks of sixteenths (even at quite bright tempos) with every note articulated perfectly - and this (perhaps surprisingly) allowed them to phrase fluidly (at any tempo - not just bright ones) and in a way that swings as good as anything you've ever heard from a horn or a piano. (of course, neither of them actually play 'banks' of sixteenth notes at bright tempos, or even medium ones. but they tend to lace what they play with sixteenth note passages that are crucial to the feel.)

this is why benson's picking technique generates and sustains so much interest.

it sounds right to me to say that django and gb share a staccato style (will articulate anything at any tempo if desired) - and that their mastery of this sort of style is a large part of what allows them both to play with such distinctive freedom and exuberance. they each make it sound as (physically) easy to invent at high tempos on the guitar as it can be on alto or piano. they don't depend on any (or many) tricks based on the quirks of the guitar (slides, hammer-ons etc.) - they can just play every note at pretty much any tempo.

Nice and interesting post. Sorry to get off topic, but for the above reasons its hard to talk about GB without Django coming up. The first time I heard Django, I could not believe what i was hearing, and i thought I had heard it all. You could instantly hear the pure joy he had while playing. I cant think of any player, regardless of instrument, who's personality comes through in their playing any stronger than Djangos. I had bought and listened to everything i could of his years before reading the book, and I felt like I knew him from his playing. When I went to read the book, I figured it would be a let down, or a total change from what i had "thought" him to be like, but I was stunned. Throughout the book, he was almost exactly what his playing spelled out to me. A child like, life loving prankster who seemed to always have a good time, and was a blast to hang around with!!
For anyone into Django, the book "Django" is a MUST read. Filled with fantastic stories and amazing things he did and was able to pull off. Like going on a tour for months with no extra strings. Grappelli said he (Django) was down to 2-3 by tours end, but you could tell no difference. He was as good as ever! Same thing with picks. He had to break off the tooth of a comb because he had forgot to bring extras, but no matter, he sounded exactly the same! Then at a party in Europe, Andres Segovia heard Django playing by himself over in a corner, and went over and asked him where he could get the written music for what he was playing, it was the most beautiful thing he had ever heard. Django just looked at him and said he was just improvising, making it up!!! The book is filled with things like that. Great reading, and a testament to what a one off talent Django really was. A total freak of nature in a good way!

[christianm77]

Well it's a little silly to talk about anyone being #1, because it becomes a bit like 'well Django is the best... and GB... and Wes is up there. ... of course we can't overlook Charlie Christian... Oh, and Grant Green... Oh, and what about Oscar Aleman?'

What I find interesting is comparing CC with Django, the two top guys of their time. Such a different approach. While Django's imagination and technique seems to know no bounds, CC's playing is the endless compelling development of a few key ideas, focussed and completely economical. Also CC's time is perhaps the best of any jazz guitarist (apart from Wes perhaps.)

Now you may disagree, but Django's phrasing at medium tempo is quite different from the Americans - to my ears he tends to avoid lines based on 8ths - the basis of CC's phrasing, for example. It's really interesting to compare him to Oscar Aleman, as well - different time/feel conception...

And we have Grant Green, who couldn't play like Django or GB technically, but can hold up with Wes and CC as perhaps the most SWINGING of the jazz guitarists. So perhaps in the top three? Depends on your perspective, and what side of the bed you got out of that day.

So I like the fact that the real greats had their own takes on it, their own strengths which they played to... I think that's part of the fun....

EDIT: that said, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who synthesises amazing technique, musical imagination and great feel more than GB. So maybe, he is the ultimate straightahead player, even if he couldn't have made it without the other guys (standing on the shoulders of giants, etc.)

[christianm77]

i agree with you about django being number one. its sheer musicality that counts - not whether you're playing swing or bop or whatnot. i tend not to listen to django as much as i listen to later players - but i've always thought of him as the ultimate jazz guitarist. its in every phrase he plays. he grabs you instantly and never lets your attention wander - he forces you to listen and follow just by consistently coming up with compelling (usually exuberant) ideas you can't help but hear out. it never fails him. there's never a dull moment. and i'm not at all surprised to hear that he could keep it up till everyone else was passing out.

there's a real link between django and gb too i think.

in one sense it comes down to how well players are able to overcome a distinctive set of physical challenges that the guitar sets the improvising musician. (a set of challenges that have no counterpart for horn players or piano players - this is a whole topic obviously). it would be interesting to think that the two guitarists that have made the guitar work best in jazz improvisation each use a very staccato phrasing style (most notes picked - relatively few slurs) that very effectively meets these challenges. they each developed the capacity to play banks of sixteenths (even at quite bright tempos) with every note articulated perfectly - and this (perhaps surprisingly) allowed them to phrase fluidly (at any tempo - not just bright ones) and in a way that swings as good as anything you've ever heard from a horn or a piano. (of course, neither of them actually play 'banks' of sixteenth notes at bright tempos, or even medium ones. but they tend to lace what they play with sixteenth note passages that are crucial to the feel.)

this is why benson's picking technique generates and sustains so much interest.

it sounds right to me to say that django and gb share a staccato style (will articulate anything at any tempo if desired) - and that their mastery of this sort of style is a large part of what allows them both to play with such distinctive freedom and exuberance. they each make it sound as (physically) easy to invent at high tempos on the guitar as it can be on alto or piano. they don't depend on any (or many) tricks based on the quirks of the guitar (slides, hammer-ons etc.) - they can just play every note at pretty much any tempo.

I would disagree with word staccato. In fact I would say Django's playing is about as legato as it is possible to get playing acoustic plectrum guitar. If you compare him to some more modern GJ stylists, often they can have a more staccato sound...

Also bear in mind playing a pure acoustic instrument, almost every note has to be picked (although Django did use slurs, usually as an ornament.)