George Benson's approach to playing chord changes

[Tag101]

Here's a better example of Benson with Miles ('Side Car' from 'Circle in the Round'). You have to go to 5 mins 0 secs to hear 'Part 2' which is where Benson joined in. This has to be one of the more way-out things Benson has ever done.

HA!! Benson probably plays the most interesting of all of them! Not one of Miles best tunes, thats for sure. "Lets all noodle around for 10 minutes."

[grahambop]

Here's Benson answering Miles' question 'what do you think about when you play?' (from Benson's autobiography):


Miles rang me up not too long thereafter. (It was always an event when Miles called; it was like a phone call from the right-brain side of outer space. You knew that whatever you discussed—music, boxing, cars, whatever—the conversation would be memorable.) After I said hello, he said, without preamble, “What do you think about when you play, George?”

“Oh, man, get out of here!” I laughed, because I thought he was kidding around. I mean, Miles Davis asking George Benson what he thought about when he played? Crazy. “I should be asking you what it is you do.”

“No, I’m serious. I want to know what it is you think about when you play.”

“Come on, man. Stop messing with me.”

“I’m not messing with you, George. I really want to know. What is it you’re thinking?” (Folks who know anything about Miles Davis’s, shall we say, colorful vocabulary won’t be surprised to learn that there were a few curse words sprinkled in there.)

We went back and forth like that for about ten more minutes, until, after trying and failing to explain my thought process, I said, “Man, I don’t know what the heck I’m thinking about when I play. I just bounce from one thing to another.”

After a beat, Miles said, “That’s it?”

“Okay, after I left McDuff, I used to practice so much, and I developed a theory that when you practice all the time, you really remember ten percent of whatever it is you’re working on; the other ninety percent is about chops maintenance. So if you practice a hundred things, you’ll absorb ten of them, and if you practice a thousand things, you’ll absorb one hundred, and if you practice ten thousand things, you’ll have a thousand. I figured the more I absorbed, the less chance there was that I’d run out of ideas, and if I had a lot of licks in my bloodstream, I could just bounce from one thing to another, and it’d sound okay. And I think it works. Sometimes, I’ll be on a long gig, like six hours over six sets, and I’ll never run out of licks.”

Miles was quiet for bit, then said, “Thanks, man,” and hung up.

A few minutes later, it dawned on me that I didn’t mention that my thought process was shaped in part by what kind of music I listened to. I always went back to my organ records: Jimmy Smith, Johnny “Hammond” Smith, Jimmy McGriff, and Groove Holmes—heck, every once in a while, I even pulled out something by Brother Jack McDuff—but I listened to more than records featuring guitarists. I checked out Charlie Parker’s stuff on Savoy, and Art Tatum’s stuff on Capitol, and even Miles’s stuff on Prestige. I listened to everything, and even if I didn’t dig what was going on, I knew that if I paid close attention I could still pick up something.

[Tag101]

Here's Benson answering Miles' question 'what do you think about when you play?' (from Benson's autobiography):


Miles rang me up not too long thereafter. (It was always an event when Miles called; it was like a phone call from the right-brain side of outer space. You knew that whatever you discussed—music, boxing, cars, whatever—the conversation would be memorable.) After I said hello, he said, without preamble, “What do you think about when you play, George?”

“Oh, man, get out of here!” I laughed, because I thought he was kidding around. I mean, Miles Davis asking George Benson what he thought about when he played? Crazy. “I should be asking you what it is you do.”

“No, I’m serious. I want to know what it is you think about when you play.”

“Come on, man. Stop messing with me.”

“I’m not messing with you, George. I really want to know. What is it you’re thinking?” (Folks who know anything about Miles Davis’s, shall we say, colorful vocabulary won’t be surprised to learn that there were a few curse words sprinkled in there.)

We went back and forth like that for about ten more minutes, until, after trying and failing to explain my thought process, I said, “Man, I don’t know what the heck I’m thinking about when I play. I just bounce from one thing to another.”

After a beat, Miles said, “That’s it?”

“Okay, after I left McDuff, I used to practice so much, and I developed a theory that when you practice all the time, you really remember ten percent of whatever it is you’re working on; the other ninety percent is about chops maintenance. So if you practice a hundred things, you’ll absorb ten of them, and if you practice a thousand things, you’ll absorb one hundred, and if you practice ten thousand things, you’ll have a thousand. I figured the more I absorbed, the less chance there was that I’d run out of ideas, and if I had a lot of licks in my bloodstream, I could just bounce from one thing to another, and it’d sound okay. And I think it works. Sometimes, I’ll be on a long gig, like six hours over six sets, and I’ll never run out of licks.”

Miles was quiet for bit, then said, “Thanks, man,” and hung up.

A few minutes later, it dawned on me that I didn’t mention that my thought process was shaped in part by what kind of music I listened to. I always went back to my organ records: Jimmy Smith, Johnny “Hammond” Smith, Jimmy McGriff, and Groove Holmes—heck, every once in a while, I even pulled out something by Brother Jack McDuff—but I listened to more than records featuring guitarists. I checked out Charlie Parker’s stuff on Savoy, and Art Tatum’s stuff on Capitol, and even Miles’s stuff on Prestige. I listened to everything, and even if I didn’t dig what was going on, I knew that if I paid close attention I could still pick up something.

In other words, Transcribe, transcribe, transcribe. Sounds like a fun book to read! I need to get it.

[MarkRhodes]

“Okay, after I left McDuff, I used to practice so much, and I developed a theory that when you practice all the time, you really remember ten percent of whatever it is you’re working on; the other ninety percent is about chops maintenance. So if you practice a hundred things, you’ll absorb ten of them, and if you practice a thousand things, you’ll absorb one hundred, and if you practice ten thousand things, you’ll have a thousand. I figured the more I absorbed, the less chance there was that I’d run out of ideas, and if I had a lot of licks in my bloodstream, I could just bounce from one thing to another, and it’d sound okay. And I think it works. Sometimes, I’ll be on a long gig, like six hours over six sets, and I’ll never run out of licks.”

Fascinating. (The whole story is good and thank you for posting it.) "Just bounce from one thing to another." Score one for Team Licks (or Vocab).

[grahambop]

Yes I find his 'you only remember 10 percent' thing intriguing. Motivation there to copy/assimilate even more ideas than ever! Worked for George!

[Tag101]

There you have it........ How do you become one of, if not the greatest jazz guitar player ever?? Simple! Memorize a bunch of licks you really dig, and jump around between them.

Next question please!

[Breezin78]

You mean, the truth hides in plain sight?

[christianm77]

He used to yell at his guitarists to, "Play like Jimi!" from what I've heard. Unfortunately for him, no one can play like Jimi

I think Pete Cosey got pretty close. Love that guy.

[Tag101]

You mean, the truth hides in plain sight?

Yes it does! And I can tell you this: Judging by his own 10% memory theory, and from transcribing him over the years, Mr GB has memorized a LOT of licks!!

[christianm77]

Yes I find his 'you only remember 10 percent' thing intriguing. Motivation there to copy/assimilate even more ideas than ever! Worked for George!

Throw enough crap at the wall and eventually some of it will stick. I like it. Sort of an anti-methodology.

[Tag101]

True story...this reminds me of something my junior year H.S. math teacher once told the class.....

"As you go through life, you slowly add things into your CONE OF KNOWLEDGE. (C.O.K. he would call it for short.) "Everyone's cone has a bit of leakage, so logically speaking, you have to put things in, faster than it is able to leak out! In Tags case however, this does not seem possible".

[MarkRhodes]

The 10% bit reminds me of something I read in a newspaper when I was a young fellow. A guy who sold things was asked how he handled rejection and he said that if he sold to one out every ten people he approached, he considered himself to be doing great.

I thought about that in terms of songs. I thought, "If I write a hundred songs, I'll have 10 album-worthy songs." That really motivated me. In a few years I wrote several hundred songs. Looking back, maybe only 8-10 were things I'd still care to play but I don't regret a minute of those years. I don't regard any of those "failed" songs as personal failures. I was "all in" and that was a great feeling. I learned a lot about how songs are put together. (These were not jazz tunes; I wasn't a jazz player at the time.) I think that is the period of my adult life that I now regard as the fullest.

Getting back to guitar, and jazz guitar at that, I think something Hal Galper said is relevant here: the licks you love are clues to who you are musically. (That's a paraphrase.)

[ecj]

Throw enough crap at the wall and eventually some of it will stick. I like it. Sort of an anti-methodology.

I think it's important to remember that Benson also has a methodology for how he fingers and plays these licks that he teaches people. He has an underlying system to support all that vocab.

[christianm77]

I think it's important to remember that Benson also has a methodology for how he fingers and plays these licks that he teaches people. He has an underlying system to support all that vocab.

Sure, I;m being a little flippant. The meta-methodology allows it all to be organised. But he's not going, oooh I absolutely have to memorise this thing or else! I like that, more chilled out. Probably more of it sticks that way too, if you forgive the disgusting metaphor.

[Shadow of the Sun]

I think Benson's approach- learning a lot of licks and going from one to the next- is telling.

When you get down to it, in a harmonic musical system, there are only three types of "gestures" a melody can be made out of. Neighbor tone figures, arpeggio figures, and scale figures (or arpeggios with passing tones added). That's it.

Every melody a person ever plays is a combination of those three types of figures, all of which have probably been seen and used before.

I think the real art of the composer and improviser is knowing which of those to use at the right time to create a tasteful or emotionally impactful music.

Which is why when I transcribe melodies, I give them an analysis after- "okay, this part is a neighbor tone figure around the chord at the time leading into an arpeggio, leading into a scalar run...". It's probably more intellectualized than how Benson did it, but I'm sure that he can take "fragments" of licks, combine them together, and make his own licks fresh out of them.

[Tag101]

but I'm sure that he can take "fragments" of licks, combine them together, and make his own licks fresh out of them.

Thats what he does actually, and I am sure thats what he meant. Its not quoting one exact lick then going to another at all. Its using the licks and lines as starting, and reference points, compared to using scales. You can see this when transcribing him. Even the guys with the absolute largest vocabularies use certain licks and lines over and over again. There are a few that are in almost every mid period Coltrane solo you could find, and I believe its a dead on Charlie Parker lick. At least Parker is the first or earliest guy I have found who used it.

[MarkRhodes]

I think it's important to remember that Benson also has a methodology for how he fingers and plays these licks that he teaches people. He has an underlying system to support all that vocab.

Good point. Do you know what it is???
Also, I wonder if there are lines George learned but rejected as awkward or inconsistent or somehow "just not me."


From my study of Herb Ellis, he had his own way of fingering too. Nothing unusual but it was crucial to the way he worked. He liked playing out of "shapes" and they were pretty simple shapes too. But man, the music he pulled out of 'em!

[MarkRhodes]

It's probably more intellectualized than how Benson did it, but I'm sure that he can take "fragments" of licks, combine them together, and make his own licks fresh out of them.

Tag addressed this above but I wanted to add something relevant from another source:

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Chord-S.../dp/1574241494

This book is about the shapes Charlie Christian used. It's a methodical look at how Charlie could vary his lines to suit the needs of the moment. Although I have the book and can recommend it, the accompanying CD does not have a guitar playing the lines but a MIDI player. The sound is tinny and dreadful, a real disappointment. (I actually haven't listened to more than a few examples from the book because I find that sound so grating.) But it is a good book. The author, Joe Weidlich, uses the term "tetrafragment" to refer to the core of a lick, then he gives varies ways Charlie might use, such as with a pick up phrase, with a tag, and other simple devices. (Charlie had several pet pick-up phrases that he could vary depending on how much space he needed to fill or whether he wanted a triplet feel or a an eighth-note feel.)

I probably should get that book out and go over it again.... It's all about the fundamentals.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Melodies can, I think, be described as tones to which you move from and too- they're the "skeleton" of the melodies and licks, and you can vary the notes in between them as fits a given situation.

[grahambop]

There you have it........ How do you become one of, if not the greatest jazz guitar player ever?? Simple! Memorize a bunch of licks you really dig, and jump around between them.

I'm glad I got the Benson book and read what he said, because that's virtually been my approach for the last 30 years! I feel a bit happier about it now!

Of course there is a bit more to it than that, you have to learn some theory and technique too. And you don't just 'regurgitate licks', it's more a case of 'assimilating' (as Clark Terry said) so that new ideas can come out of all the stuff you've absorbed.

But in a nutshell, what Benson said does sum up what I've been doing all this time!

[ecj]

Good point. Do you know what it is???
Also, I wonder if there are lines George learned but rejected as awkward or inconsistent or somehow "just not me."

I wish I knew all the details. I think a lot of it has come out in the Benson thread (rest strokes, diagonal fingerings, etc.). Trying to get a lot of it just through transcribing.

[MarkRhodes]

I wish I knew all the details. I think a lot of it has come out in the Benson thread (rest strokes, diagonal fingerings, etc.). Trying to get a lot of it just through transcribing.

Wes seemed to do that diagonal fingering too, right? (Using mostly three fingers and sliding around a lot, but not in a random fashion.)

I don't know how this will sound but it seems to me that my favorite players did not seek "maximum freedom" on the instrument (--the ideal of any playing any note with any finger at any point on the guitar at any time) but seemed to restrict themselves in ways. They found things that worked and worked them to death. They weren't ashamed to use a line over and over and over. It seems that they thought in lines...

[grahambop]

As it happens, I think I have only learned one Benson lick in my entire life. It's on 'Summertime' from 'It's Uptown'. He does this rapid sort of double-time minor pentatonic blues-type lick. I only managed to play it by using a lot of left-hand pull-offs/hammer-ons (Benson probably picked the whole thing). Occasionally I still try it and I usually fluff it!

I wouldn't mind trying to steal a few more things off that record sometime. There's a great minor blues/latin thing called 'Eternally' (?) - some fantastic lines in that one.

[MarkRhodes]

Melodies can, I think, be described as tones to which you move from and too- they're the "skeleton" of the melodies and licks, and you can vary the notes in between them as fits a given situation.

Yes, I think this is right. Carol Kaye talks about this and it is why she stresses the 'chordal scale.' Triads, using diminished patterns over dominant chords, and moving things up in minor thirds----a lot of great jazz was made from those few elements.

[Tag101]

I'm glad I got the Benson book and read what he said, because that's virtually been my approach for the last 30 years! I feel a bit happier about it now!

Of course there is a bit more to it than that, you have to learn some theory and technique too. And you don't just 'regurgitate licks', it's more a case of 'assimilating' (as Clark Terry said) so that new ideas can come out of all the stuff you've absorbed.

But in a nutshell, what Benson said does sum up what I've been doing all this time!

Miles Davis said the same thing in his book. Something along the lines of "Do a lot of listening, copy what you like, and edit out what you do not like.". Lol!