Would you spend $5k for a Gibson Farlow if serial number was partially scratched out?

[jzucker]

I was looking at one from japan and the dealer sent me this text:

the serial number on the label inside the body has been written out, and the trailing head engraving is 8 and the label is 9.

The thing that occurs to me is that possibly the guitar was stolen? Not sure why someone would do that?

[omphalopsychos]

$5k is a lot for a Tal IMO.

FYI you can purchase the one you're looking at directly from the merchant for a lot cheaper than reverb. Tal Farlow Sunburst Master Model 1995?? | ???????????????????????????????????????????

Their list price is ¥698,500 including tax, so it should come to ¥635,000 if you subtract tax, or $4041.93 plus shipping.


As for the serial number, I doubt if someone stole it they would just scratch out one digit.

[Jim Soloway]

I'm not sure how you feel about wine red (I personally like it) but here's one a lot closer to home for a lot less money and no need to import it from Japan.

Just a moment...

[Archie]

$5k is a lot for a Tal IMO.

FYI you can purchase the one you're looking at directly from the merchant for a lot cheaper than reverb. Tal Farlow Sunburst Master Model 1995?? | ???????????????????????????????????????????

Their list price is ¥698,500 including tax, so it should come to ¥635,000 if you subtract tax, or $4041.93 plus shipping.


As for the serial number, I doubt if someone stole it they would just scratch out one digit.

If the serial number cannot be identified, one cannot be arrested or charged with handling stolen goods?

[Jim Soloway]

If one cannot tell the serial number, one cannot be arrested or charged with handling stolen goods?

I suspect given the source that it's more likely a gray market guitar sold by an unauthorized dealer.

[jzucker]

$5k is a lot for a Tal IMO.

FYI you can purchase the one you're looking at directly from the merchant for a lot cheaper than reverb. Tal Farlow Sunburst Master Model 1995?? | ???????????????????????????????????????????

Their list price is ¥698,500 including tax, so it should come to ¥635,000 if you subtract tax, or $4041.93 plus shipping.


As for the serial number, I doubt if someone stole it they would just scratch out one digit.

i contacted them directly and they quoted ¥696,800 which is $4434 and does not include customs fees which is likely to be $200 more, plus it's not clear if I'd owe 8% local tax.

[jzucker]

I'm not sure how you feel about wine red (I personally like it) but here's one a lot closer to home for a lot less money and no need to import it from Japan.

Just a moment...

i saw that one. My main worry is that if I don't like it, they are harder to sell.

[omphalopsychos]

i contacted them directly and they quoted ¥696,800 which is $4434 and does not include customs fees which is likely to be $200 more, plus it's not clear if I'd owe 8% local tax.

I recommend contacting them again and making sure you speak to a manager or senior employee. I have had to coach japanese merchants through this who were less accustomed to international buyers. 696k jpy on their site explicitly includes tax, which they should not charge you since the guitar is not being sold domestically.

You do not owe any customs fees on the guitar. It was made in the USA.

As for 8% sales tax, how/whether you choose to report that to the IRS is your business. It's unlikely that anyone will come after you for the money unless you report the purchase in your tax filings.

[Jim Soloway]

i saw that one. My main worry is that if I don't like it, they are harder to sell.

Absolutely true.

[Mick-7]

"plus it's not clear if I'd owe 8% local tax."

No, the sales tax must be calculated and collected by the merchant at the time of sale, so it would not apply in an overseas transaction. The Fed will collect their piece of the action with the Customs tax.

[Cunamara]

But again, since it is an American made product being re-imported into the United States, there is no customs duty.

[Jabberwocky]

But again, since it is an American made product being re-imported into the United States, there is no customs duty.

provided the right papers are filed: CBP Form 3311.
CBP Form 3311 - Declaration of Free Entry of Returned American Products | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

[rpjazzguitar]

I was looking at one from japan and the dealer sent me this text:



The thing that occurs to me is that possibly the guitar was stolen? Not sure why someone would do that?

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I wouldn't buy a guitar with a serial number scratched out. I don't want an instrument that might have been stolen.

[Jabberwocky]

The crossed out serial number with modification won't bother me the slightest as long as I feel comfortable with the price. But note that it does have an impact on market value. The right person won't dicker down the value too much but the wrong person would use it as leverage to obtain a bargain. If the serial number had a string of 4s superstition might make a buyer cross it out. 4 is a homonymn of the kanji character that means death.

Note that unlike the shopping culture in the USA Japanese retailers don't take kindly to returns, for any reason. Once sold it is SOLD. Forget about credit card chargebacks as they work differently outside of the USA. You are fastidious to a fault, Jack. I think it would only bring you untold misery. Buy local(ly).

[Jabberwocky]

For International Customers | 【クロサワ楽器店オンラインショップ】いい楽器とのいい出会いを。クロサワ楽器店通販サイト

[ThatRhythmMan]

provided the right papers are filed: CBP Form 3311.
CBP Form 3311 - Declaration of Free Entry of Returned American Products | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

That can be used if needed, but I have never had an issue as long as the customs form is clearly marked with United States as the country of origin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jzucker]

That can be used if needed, but I have never had an issue as long as the customs form is clearly marked with United States as the country of origin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

regardless, certain shipping companies charge you a fee for handling on top of duty. I'd buy the guitar from the tokyo shop if the serial number wasn't scratched out. Anytime you have to sell something "with a story" you're going to have a more difficult time so unless the price was significantly reduced, i'm not interested. Also, all that stuff should be disclosed in the ad IMO...

[omphalopsychos]

$4k for a tal with a tampered sticker isn’t too unreasonable. I bet you might even be able to negotiate a lower price, since 4K is their sticker price. Obviously buy with caution as Jabs is correct about Japanese stores and returns. Most, like this one, use some form of wire or ach exclusively and don’t allow credit cards. However I took a risk on both an L5CESN and an LCTN Wes Montgomery from Japan and both were well worth the risk.

[Jim Soloway]

regardless, certain shipping companies charge you a fee for handling on top of duty. I'd buy the guitar from the tokyo shop if the serial number wasn't scratched out. Anytime you have to sell something "with a story" you're going to have a more difficult time so unless the price was significantly reduced, i'm not interested. Also, all that stuff should be disclosed in the ad IMO...

Jack, the only time I've had any experience with gray market goods was 25 years ago and it was with high end watches rather than guitars but there was most definitely a significant impact on the resale price. Like me, you have a long history of selling guitars so I think that you need to at least account for the possible impact you'd be looking at in the resale market. The benefit of gray market goods is that the initial purchase price is lower so the lower expectation in the resale price is less significant. With that in mind, I don't think the purchase price of this one justifies the potential decrease in the resale value. If you really want a Tal, look for one that doesn't come with built in baggage.

[Stringswinger]

I would not touch a guitar that had the serial number altered.

Forgetting about the "baggage" that guitar will have when resale comes up, the fact is that one can only guess as to why the alteration happened. And it may have been stolen at one time. A good deal on anything is not worth incurring bad Karma IMO.

There are other guitars to buy.....

[jim777]

I'm not sure how you feel about wine red (I personally like it) but here's one a lot closer to home for a lot less money and no need to import it from Japan.

Just a moment...

This is about 15 minutes from me.

[jzucker]

This is about 15 minutes from me.

let me know if you ever feel inclined to check it out!

[jim777]

let me know if you ever feel inclined to check it out!

I'll try and get over there Saturday Jack, though I am a bit concerned not having played one before, never mind owning one.

[Archie]

I'll try and get over there Saturday Jack, though I am a bit concerned not having played one before, never mind owning one.

Ime they’re relatively heavy, relatively dull sounding, often have a metallic ringing sound coming from the bridge, when played acoustically.
Check the neck and truss rod if you can. That would be my main concern.
The pick-guard has gone funny so check for damage under it and any effect on the finish/binding.

[jads57]

Jack Z I’m usually not a Heritage fan, but I actually prefer the
H-550 model to the Gibson Tal Farlow reissue model. Plus they can be had for half o the asking price. I believe theirs one TGP at the moment.