Are Modern Amps Repairable?

[Litterick]

I like amps made with electronic components that can found in catalogues. The interiors of both my Hiwatt thing and my Fender thing were assembled, not made. They are hand wired. They do not contain printed circuit boards or, worse, inexplicable pieces of white plastic. All parts can be replaced with generic substitutes. I would not need to return them to their manufacturers to have them fixed. I sleep well.

[Gitterbug]

I would add Koch to amp makers who go the extra mile in service - at least by my experience about 15 years ago. They must have sent hundreds of speaker jacks to customers to address cracking nuts of the originals, in my case those of a ca. 2008 Studiotone.

[Christian Miller]

Amp techs always moan about anything other than hand wired tube amps ime. They can repair other stuff, but the complaining can be considered a premium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[garybaldy]

I would add Koch to amp makers who go the extra mile in service - at least by my experience about 15 years ago. They must have sent hundreds of speaker jacks to customers to address cracking nuts of the originals, in my case those of a ca. 2008 Studiotone.

Not an amp but the two jack sockets on my Nobels OD decided to completely disintegrate. It has been on a board for years so not subjected to a lot of misuse. Just aging plastic I guess. Nobels were pretty useless. I messaged them and they said they'd get back but didn't. Msgd them 3 months later and sent me a dimension drawing of the part but nothing else. I was able to get the part number from a helpful facebook guy.

[jzucker]

I like amps made with electronic components that can found in catalogues. The interiors of both my Hiwatt thing and my Fender thing were assembled, not made. They are hand wired. They do not contain printed circuit boards or, worse, inexplicable pieces of white plastic. All parts can be replaced with generic substitutes. I would not need to return them to their manufacturers to have them fixed. I sleep well.

even that is no guarantee. About 5 years ago, I bought a very high end class A head by one of the manufacturers who people fall all over in this and the gearpage forums. Completely hand wired with turrets. It kept cutting out. I called the builder and they told me they were no longer doing repairs on their amps. I took it locally to two guys who couldn't find the problem. They replaced the electrolytic caps, checked all the ground and heater wire connections, the transformer, power supply , rectifier circuit, etc.

I sent it to an amp guru who had it for 2 months and couldn't figure it out and he told me that because the problem was periodic in nature, there was no way to diagnose it and that he'd have to charge me $500-$800 to fix (based on 5-8 hours bench time and just poking around at things).

In the end, I sold it for parts.

[garybaldy]

even that is no guarantee. About 5 years ago, I bought a very high end class A head by one of the manufacturers who people fall all over in this and the gearpage forums. Completely hand wired with turrets. It kept cutting out. I called the builder and they told me they were no longer doing repairs on their amps. I took it locally to two guys who couldn't find the problem. They replaced the electrolytic caps, checked all the ground and heater wire connections, the transformer, power supply , rectifier circuit, etc.

I sent it to an amp guru who had it for 2 months and couldn't figure it out and he told me that because the problem was periodic in nature, there was no way to diagnose it and that he'd have to charge me $500-$800 to fix (based on 5-8 hours bench time and just poking around at things).

In the end, I sold it for parts.

The guy I go to has stuff with intermittent faults "on" all day. Or is continually turning stuff on and off. Sometimes it can take weeks but he gets there in the end. And like I've said before he charges very little. I'm lucky.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

In over 40 year of gigging and many thousands of gigs, I only had one amp fail on a gig. It was a Polytone and the culprit was a bridge rectifier. It cost me $215 to fix and I promptly sold it for the $300 it was worth (I just did not trust it after that). As luck would have it, the venue had a PA, so I finished that gig playing my 175 through their less than stellar PA. After that experience, i started keeping a spare amp in the trunk of my car for high dollar gigs.

It's not just "modern" amps. I've had a few die on the stand and one in the studio, so I've carried a spare in the trunk for many years. I only had one tube failure on a gig (a 6L6 in a B15N Ampeg in 1964). I got 30+ years from a Boogie Mk 1 (before they were Mk 1s) without a failure and at least 10 years each from a Twin, a SF Vibrolux, and a Bassman 50 head, plus years of trouble free use from smaller tube amps (Princeton Reverb 2, BF Deluxe, original Blues Deluxe)

When it first came out, the G-K MB150 was a great "little" amp for practice and small gigs - and there was a head version. I'd bought a used ML250 as a spare / backup / small gig amp and was very pleased with it until it died on a gig (and I finished up through the keyboard amp). So I got an MB150 and loved it...until it also died. This was shortly after they switched from a traditional transformer-based PS to a switched one and were having a lot of failures. It was repaired under warranty but failed again a few months after the repair warranty expired and they charged me $125 to fix it again. I took out the head to keep as a spare and substituted an old style one that I got used and had been my spare. That one later went up in smoke and sparks at Hard Hat Studios in New Jersey while I was doing a session for Greg Carpenter. It was unrepairable.

When Crate Powerblocks came out, I bought one to carry as a spare. I like to use a new amp a few times to get it past the "infant failure" stage, since most electronics failures not from old age or wear and tear happen in the first few uses. So I used it on a duo gig, switched it off for a break, and it never came back on. It was replaced (by GC) the next day, and the new one was fine for years. I had a well used orange Roland Cube 60 many years ago that went intermittent on a gig and never recovered. And the '68 VIbrolux RI in the backline at the club I play in now died during a show a few months ago and turned out to have a crack in the power supply board.

So it's absolutely not just modern amps that fail and are not worth repairing. The main reason today's less expensive solid state stuff is disposable is that it costs less to replace than it does to repair and it's not worth much used. Henriksens etc are different, because a $350 ICE module costs far less than an $1100 Blu 6 and when repaired it's as good as new. Those GKs were a nightmare. The intermittent cutouts from the Cube 60 were never repaired despite multiple attempts, and the Crate Powerblock was a throwaway when it failed. I never expected a current production Fender Vibrolux RI to die on the stand.

So I always carry a spare amp. I bought 2 used Quilter Microblocks a few years ago and carry one in my gig bag everywhere except for my club shows because we have multiple amps in the backline. Even though the Microblocks were both used and I got them from people I knew and trusted, I used both on small gigs to make sure they were OK, and they're excellent little amps. I suspect that Quilter, Henriksen and other well established high end makers will be able to keep my amps going when they get old and ailing, but only time will tell. And if the maker disappears, failure could mean owning a boat anchor. Ya pays your money and ya takes you chances.

[sgosnell]

Which would you prefer, based on economics? An old amp that has been repaired, but with possibly dying components, for which you may have to repair again, or a brand new amp with a warranty? With newer "throwaway" amps, at the prices they go for, I think the latter is a better choice. While some may rail against devices not being repairable, the rising cost of labor and the scarcity of competent and reputable repair technicians makes them seem, at least to me, to be the cheaper and very likely more reliable option.

[Gitterbug]

The EU has issued, in April 2024, a Directive for repair of goods. It's meant to make consumer durables repairable and deal with planned obsolescence. Time will tell whether it works and spans products of interest to us.

[deacon Mark]

Unless an amp was cheap and easy to fix forget it. I have no idea what i would do if my cut out putting any money into it not bright. I can buy a new one with warranty and get what I want or would work. It is that way with all major appliances really, some obvious things can be replaced but otherwise get a new one. Repairing things as in the past what generations did, now we toss and start over.
























i









i

[bluejaybill]

Which would you prefer, based on economics? An old amp that has been repaired, but with possibly dying components, for which you may have to repair again, or a brand new amp with a warranty? With newer "throwaway" amps, at the prices they go for, I think the latter is a better choice. While some may rail against devices not being repairable, the rising cost of labor and the scarcity of competent and reputable repair technicians makes them seem, at least to me, to be the cheaper and very likely more reliable option.

once you go through a vintage BF amp and bring things up to snuff, they will last for a really long time. I’ve had my BF Deluxe Reverb since the mid 70’s, I may have had one preamp tube go on a gig in those 45 or so years, not sure, and I bring it in periodically for a checkup. Most recently 7 years ago. That amp has been on hundreds of gigs, studio sessions, even lived in my teaching studio for a while.I would probably use a modern version for a gig now just because of the value, but most parts, like the blue capacitors, will last a lifetime. Almost.

I have had spectacular explosions in vintage Vox and Marshall amps, luckily both pulled through. Also haven’t been serviced in 7 years, sound great!

[rpjazzguitar]

For new amps, I would want to know if the pots and jacks are soldered into the board. If so, I'd probably avoid that product. The mechanical stresses too often lead to failure in that design.

[DawgBone]

once you go through a vintage BF amp and bring things up to snuff, they will last for a really long time. I’ve had my BF Deluxe Reverb since the mid 70’s, I may have had one preamp tube go on a gig in those 45 or so years, not sure, and I bring it in periodically for a checkup. Most recently 7 years ago. That amp has been on hundreds of gigs, studio sessions, even lived in my teaching studio for a while.I would probably use a modern version for a gig now just because of the value, but most parts, like the blue capacitors, will last a lifetime. Almost.

I have had spectacular explosions in vintage Vox and Marshall amps, luckily both pulled through. Also haven’t been serviced in 7 years, sound great!

I just had two Twins full rebuilt a few months ago. Considering I have two basically brand new hand wired Twins the price was negigible IMO. Now they should provide an easy seven or eight years of reliable gigging each. I've only ever had one on-gig amp failure and it was with a new-used Twin that I hadn't had gone through yet.

The reality is few or none of these newer amps will be usable equipment in 60 years like a BF or SF Fender. It's like a yellow cab, you just keep rebuilding it and can put millions of miles on it. It'd be nice to know how many gigs those Twins have seen. I have put many hundreds on both of them and I got the first one in 2015......

[John A.]

Every tube amp I owned required regular service - tube replacement, rebiasing, replacement of whatever caused the weird noise that caught my attention - usually every couple of years. That has gotten pretty expensive in my neck of the woods (usually on the order of $350 including tubes, plus long wait times with the dwindling number of techs).

Alas, I reached the point where between that and the schlep factor, I’m done with tubes. My Quilter gets me close enough for much lower TOC, plus I can carry it. If it breaks unfixably in a few years (which I doubt will happen), I’ll still be ahead. The delta between what the Quilter cost me and what I got for my PR just bought me Les Paul, with a few bucks left over.

So I get that most tube amps are more easily repairable than most SS amps, but that’s on balance not as valuable as it seems, at least in my experience.

[Gregc57]

If an amp is built with analog components on a tag board or something similar, it's generally, reasonable easy to troubleshoot and repair. If it's analog on a printed circuit board it can be a bit more difficult, depending on quality and board design, but usually reliably repairable. If it's built on a PCB using 'surface mount' components, I'd forget about it. Digital, no thank you, just not for me..... sometimes the juice is just not worth the squeeze.
I'm just a guy with 40 years, old school, technical, electronics experience.

[bluenote61]

Regarding the older BF and SF Amps, they are indeed better serviceable than newer Amps.
But if you ever have been faced to the problem of "campfire noise" of the waxed cardboard on which the components are mounted due to increasing conductivity of the cardboard getting old and loosing impregnation you can get crazy fixing the problem.

What I want to say, also those praised old Fender amps had already cheap parts installed due to cost saving. It's no new idea.
If you look into a 70s Marshall with it's massive turret board you can see what was also possible for mass production amps at that time.
Just my 2c.
(I love my 83 Concert, but I don't take it to a gig anymore. Too heavy. For gigs I'll use my TM Twin)

[Jimmy Mack]

Yes bluenote61, those Concerts are fabulous. I had one with 2 10" speakers, beautiful tone. Not only heavy, but loud too.

[drbhrb]

I had a Quilter fixed once which was worth doing financially. Would have been moreso if they had any east coast authorized repair centers. Had to ship it to somewhere in the midwest!