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[edit]
Fortunately, I had a 48hr eval period but i'm responsible for all shipping so it's going to be a hefty penalty to return it...
here's the email I sent them:
Hi,
I'm going to have to return the used heritage eagle guitar. There are
a number of issues and modifications that I was unaware of. The first
4 are relatively easy to fix, the rest are not:
1) Case doesn't really fit. It's too small for the guitar.
2) Pickguard was replaced/modified. The original pickguard apparently
had 2 screws and now the bottom of the 2 screws is empty.
3) Pickguard bracket hits the top of the guitar when you are playing.
I didn't look under it but i'm guessing there's some type of wear.
4) Controls are reversed from stock (treble vol and tone are on the
top, neck are on the bottom)
The following are more concerning issues that cannot be easily fixed.
5) Top sinkage. The top is sinking back around the bridge. The height
of the adjustment screws has to be extended to a ridiculous level to
get the instrument playing normally
6) Extreme buzzing. It needs a fingerboard level and a refret,
possibly even a neck reset
7) There is some aftermarket, white silicon glue on some of the
kerfing. I'm assuming it must have come loose (probably around the
time of the top sinkage and it was repair with white, silicon glue.
8) Around the same time, someone glued little horizontal wood strips
on the inside/sides of the bass side of the guitar. Not sure why but
these are not stock for a heritage eagle.
When I got the hand's on evaluation, I specifically asked if there
were any mods and these issues were not disclosed. Pretty disappointed
in how many issues this guitar has considering the relatively high
price.
Please advise.
Jack ZuckerLast edited by jzucker; 12-07-2023 at 06:15 PM.
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12-06-2023 06:49 PM
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Well that just plain sucks. I'd return it as well.
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Man, I feel your pain. I live in a pretty remote spot in central Oregon, 3 hours drive from Portland, and I have purchased many guitars without being able to play them in advance. A few have turned out to be terrific, the remainder had to go. One would hope that with a factory guitar like a Heritage things would be more consistent, but it sounds like you got a lemon, maybe even a moldy lemon. Did you ask the seller if they would be willing to cover the return shipping, given the extent of the problems? It's possible they are clueless and don't know shit from Shinola, whatever that means, but it would be worth asking in a diplomatic fashion.
Regardless, sorry, I know that feeling too well. Good luck!
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they're allowing me to return but I have to pay shipping both ways. Hardly seems fair since I was very specific when I called and had them do an in-hand demo.
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I suspect some people consign their guitars to diminish the moral burden of not disclosing the known issues. That way they don't have to lie to the buyer's face. There are no shortage of petty, shameless people out there.
I once bought a consigned guitar that turned out to have a loose neck pocket. It was very expensive for what it was. I didn't notice it until I put heavier gauge strings. It came with 9's, as i loosen the strings it started making cracking noises. I tried to put 12's it almost snapped in half.
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Yikes...In this case, it's a respectable dealer. I had the guy give me a hand's on demo. I ran through my usual questions:
Originally Posted by Tal_175
1) Truss rod functions in both directions?
2) Pickups work with no issues?
3) Repairs or modifications?
4) Bracing intact and properly glued?
5) No tailrise or excessive buzzing that a fret level couldn't cure?
etc...
I didn't try the truss rod but this failed a large portion of the questions that I discussed with them. Plus, the thing came setup with very old .010s. The G string was literally black. You'd think for $4300, they could put a set of .012s on it or at the very least. a new set of .010s.
And it's a shame I have to pay shipping when clearly they didn't answer the questions truthfully. I don't think they deliberately lied. Just clueless...
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Sorry to hear that Jack. It sounds like the reputable dealer is not reputable at all. It would be nice if you could name names when the time suits you best so I, we, can cross the company off my list.
To me it sounds like they deliberately lied. It's pretty obvious when a case doesn't fit a guitar correctly or when a top is sunken. Most good salesmen are also very good liars. That's why I can never profit on most of my used gear sales, if the thing has problems I say so up front. I suck at lying. Cost me a lot of money but at least not my integrity!
I guess I have been fortunate because every guitar I have ever ordered sight unseen has been pretty good with only minor issues at the most. I hope this gets squared away so best of fortunes to you. The upside to all this is you get to shop for a new guitar and for me, that is the fun part. When it shows up it's back to work. Be well Jack.
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I didn't mean the dealer. I meant the owner. The dealers rely on the sellers to disclose issues that can't reasonably be identified with a quick eye and sound test. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Even the most reputable of guitar dealers VERY rarely have a clue about archtops. Most can’t even tell you parallel vs x-bracing. They aren’t going to be able to answer most of the questions a knowledgeable buyer like Jack asks with reasonable accuracy. I have tried to educate many of them, but the majority don’t even want to listen. I don’t know. They may think it’s just not worth their time since archtops make up such a small amount of their sales.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'd take it up with my credit card company. Get your partial refund first, then pursue the remainder of the shipping charges.
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When it comes to archtops and Gypsy guitars, I find most guitar dealers (and a lot of private party sellers) don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Buying these guitars sight unseen is almost always a monetary risk. Dealers like Chuck Nicholson and Larry Wexer who do know archtops or Dealers like Tommy Davy and Michael Horowitz who do know Gypsy guitars take some of the risk out of the equation. But one may still simply not like the guitar. And then there are a few dealers who do know these guitars and cannot be fully trusted (I won't name any names in this thread). Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
Shipping costs both ways can be expensive today. Buying sight unseen is almost always a crap shoot. Do you feel lucky punk? Well do ya?
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The cost of returning a guitar would probably be in excess of $300 since you paid for the shipping both ways. To me a plane ticket is cheaper and in fact the best move is a drive. I am willing to drive darn near anywhere to buy the guitar in person. My one exception would be the West Coast because that would get too long. For me if I can drive it within a day and then camp overnight the deal can be done. Sure, I am out the time and the travel but really with shipping cost not probably more money.
My exceptions would be of course Larry Wexer and George Gruhn. There are others too but these guys come to mind right away.
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Darn - another horror story. Sorry Jack !
My philosophy is usually to buy new. I know it’s way more expensive and long wait times but zero risk.
I would also buy from a trusted seller here.
Reverb and eBay is a total dice roll. Shipping is a nail biter too.
Their are some stand up shops out there that really know how to inspect a guitar like Gryphon but not too many out there.
I had a really good experience buying a brand new Byrdland from Sweetwater. I got the price waaaay down. They also offered me a brand new Eagle for $4500. Sometimes you can get new cheaper then used.
Best of Luck Jack !
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Typically they want to see a luthier/repair estimate and i only had a 48hr window for the return and it would cost me money to get the repair eval too. Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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People always say this but the real truth is even a 2 hour, in-person evaluation may not be enough because these instruments almost always need a setup, string change, etc. Then , you're playing through somebody else's amp which may or may not be setup to get the sound you like. I've tried things out in the store and they sounded fine but after I sat with it for a few hours through my own rig, realized it wasn't the right axe for me. And I've also had the reverse. Like the mid '2000s 175 I currently have and which I disliked when I first got it but now I'm really fond of. Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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It seems that the newer heritage eagles (they resumed manufacturing in 2023) are all over 8.5lbs so that's a factor too... Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Hate to see this and sort of understand why the seller isn't listed but seems the list of faults was deleted as well? Might be a useful thing to see for those of us forced to do business online.
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List of faults is in the first post Originally Posted by Spook410
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not sure why you can't see it but i'll repeat it here... Originally Posted by Spook410
Hi,
I'm going to have to return the used heritage eagle guitar. There are
a number of issues and modifications that I was unaware of. The first
4 are relatively easy to fix, the rest are not:
1) Case doesn't really fit. It's too small for the guitar.
2) Pickguard was replaced/modified. The original pickguard apparently
had 2 screws and now the bottom of the 2 screws is empty.
3) Pickguard bracket hits the top of the guitar when you are playing.
I didn't look under it but i'm guessing there's some type of wear.
4) Controls are reversed from stock (treble vol and tone are on the
top, neck are on the bottom)
The following are more concerning issues that cannot be easily fixed.
5) Top sinkage. The top is sinking back around the bridge. The height
of the adjustment screws has to be extended to a ridiculous level to
get the instrument playing normally
6) Extreme buzzing. It needs a fingerboard level and a refret,
possibly even a neck reset
7) There is some aftermarket, white silicon glue on some of the
kerfing. I'm assuming it must have come loose (probably around the
time of the top sinkage and it was repair with white, silicon glue.
8) Around the same time, someone glued little horizontal wood strips
on the inside/sides of the bass side of the guitar. Not sure why but
these are not stock for a heritage eagle.
When I got the hand's on evaluation, I specifically asked if there
were any mods and these issues were not disclosed. Pretty disappointed
in how many issues this guitar has considering the relatively high
price.
Please advise.
Jack Zucker
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Feel your pain. It seems to be such a gamble these days. A while back I found a Benedetto Bravo Delux online. Good price, excellent condition....looked a little L5 ish, but somehow that didn't register as totally contrary to the general Benedetto aesthetic. Nothing disclosed by the seller as abnormal. Hey, it's a Benedetto. Nobody is going to extensively mod a 7500 dollar deliberately ordered guitar right?
Long story short, while in transit my Google Fu started digging deeper and deeper.... and it just kept getting worse. Replaced pickup,aftermarket pickguard, drilled into the body. Block inlays done by a 3rd party, done poorly. Total refinish, and possibly a neck shave.
Fortunately the seller took it back shipping included. I never even took it out of the box once it arrived. I haven't felt that foolish and embarrassed in a long time.
I'll never buy online again unless I can have in-depth conversations that are somewhat personal with the seller. Even then it's just such a gamble...
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Jack - I take it you are adamant about having 2 humbuckers ?
Otherwise a used single humbucker Campellone would be a safe buy. It won’t have issues and will be very lightweight. Mark’s guitars don’t have issues other then maybe some finish checking.
He has archtop building down to a exact science. Lightweight but rock hard stable.
Dual action trussrod but you will probably never need to touch it. No such thing as a tail rise.
Regardless…..LOL. Too bad we love archtops. The Les Paul world is so much easier.
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No, I like the single humbucker better for the purpose I'm getting this archtop for. I'm also considering a schaefer... Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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Reading this kind of thing scares me. Here in Australia, there aren't many good archtop guitars available in general, especially vintage ones. Buying sight unseen (likely from overseas) is something I may have to consider.
I had a bad experience when I bought my Les Paul Recording. It was purchased from a reputable vintage guitar dealer. It arrived in one piece (thankfully), however it was the most dirty/cruddiest guitar I've come across. The strings were literally made of rust and the whole guitar was caked up with grime. Just horrible.
After lots cleaning, and giving it a decent setup with fresh strings, it played great, but it really made me realise a lot of guitar shops are incredibly sloppy. I'd also add that most guitar shops I've dealt with here in Australia wouldn't have a clue about how to set up (any) guitar properly let alone an archtop.
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Thanks.. shows up in both places now. That's quite a list. Originally Posted by jzucker
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My last guitar I purchased not getting it in person was my 18 inch Campellone Deluxe in 2002. Bought from dealer out east Bill Fender of all names. He was a good dealer. But buying a Campellone I now realize probably not a shot in the dark. If you get a messed up Campy clearly it was the previous owners fault.
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