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I just bought a new Gibson ES335 - it was ordered and arrived today.
I noticed that the volume control on the neck and bridge pickups seems to have a lot of variation between 8-10 but very little variation from 1-8 unless I also increase the tone control.
is this normal? Just looking to find out if this is how the Gibson es335 controls normally function is all or if it’s something that i should return the guitar over
I’m used to a Yamaha sa2200 which has controls that roll volume on and off pretty consistently
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11-09-2023 07:55 PM
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Reads like you have Log pots.
Linear pots are good for clean sounds as they roll off gradually throughout the rotation of the knob.
But if you use linear pots with overdriven sounds, nothing happens until the control is half off. So in that case, one would want log pots, that cut quit a bit from 8-10 then taper off.
In the graph 100% is maximum signal to the amp (loudest) and most resistance to ground.
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Definitely sounds like they aren't audio taper. I had a 333 that came with pots like that. They were 300k too which are a little to wooly. I got used to manipulating them just fine but switching to audio taper definitely made it less touchy in terms of knob adjustments and opened up the sound a good bit.
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so are these poor for playing a clean jazz style of playing/tone?
Originally Posted by DawgBone
or is it not such a big deal. Am I going to not be able to access tones?
I can return/exchange and regroup if it’s that big of a deal. Or is it more of something I can get used to that is not going to disadvantage my tone and just replace later if I end up deciding to
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Can I ask you why you preferred Gibson to Yamaha? Thank you Originally Posted by NYC
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Play anything you want. It's not a big deal and you'll get used to it. Originally Posted by NYC
I think Gibson uses these kinds of pots pretty much across the board.
Pots are relatively inexpensive parts meant to be replaced when they wear out. No reason to exchange or return a guitar you otherwise like, just because of the pots.
You wouldn't sell a car just because you don't like the tires it has right?
If it really bothers you then you can go ahead and change the pots. That's fine too.
-G
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It's not a big deal. Just keep practicing and when you are ready you can upgrade the pots and the like if you feel like it will benefit you. The difference is essentially pretty small unless you are already dialing in your tone to a high degree. I did a couple hundred gigs on my Gibson without changing those pots. Originally Posted by NYC
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I had a 2013 ES-335. It was a ‘63 reissue “50th Anniversary” model in an authentic vintage cherry colour with the VOS treatment. It was an absolutely beautiful guitar that looked and felt exactly like a genuine ‘63. Unfortunately, it had the exact same issue that you described. I was able to cope with it when just playing at home, but it drove me crazy on a gig. In addition to the lack of volume below 8 and extreme sensitivity above 8, I felt like the tone was poor when the volume was at anything below 10. I just couldn’t get used to it. I probably could have had someone replace the pots or wiring harness, but I don’t really like modding guitars. Instead, I decided to let it go. I’m not sure if that was the right decision, but I couldn’t live with it the way it was. I don’t know what to recommend, but your observations are consistent with my experience and I wouldn’t put up with it the way it is.
Keith
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I just bought a brand new L-5 and Byrdland they have the audio pots too. Also not a fan as my older Gibson archtops all have linear pots.
I guess Gibson is using them on everything right now.
They must be 2 cents cheaper a pot.
You can get used to them but you must be very precise.
A huge drop off after 8.5.
Gibson has used both audio and linear throughout the years.
Easy to replace on a solid body. Not so easy on a F hole guitar.
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There are multiple ways to wire the controls in a guitar, and multiple types of potentiometers available. Gibson's wiring and parts are not my favorite by a long shot.
TL;DR: It's a Gibson.
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I still have the Yamaha Sa2200 I just couldn’t resist this beautiful figured maple ES335 so I got it. Originally Posted by Karlos
i will say that the ES335 I prefer though, most definitely. It’s a little bit nicer finish and design wise. It’s much more resonant though I’ll say. The whole guitar just vibrates beautifully acoustically. The SA2200 is also nice, very nice but it does not resonate in the same way. It’s stiffer. But still very nice and I plan to keep both.
the Gibson pots I’ll have to get used to. I find that keeping the volume at 10 and adjusting tone is easies. I’m getting a nice jazzy tone on the es335 with volume at 10 and tone rolled down to 2/3 through my 64 twin reverb.
ill get used to the pots. They’re very different though than anything I’m used to. Oh well.
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The Yamahas have a poly finish don’t they?
I’ve bored on about the Gibson’s midrange cut. Other semis tend to have a flatter eq curve. I think it’s baked into the construction, it’s noticeable acoustic.
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yes the SA2200 has a very “thick” finish. It’s a beautiful guitar seriously. Like, wildly nice for the price. Binding all around, 3 ply binding, it’s bound even up through the headstock. A heavy guitar, but I like that. There’s something very stiff about the way it feels and plays and that truly translates into the tone. It’s a very high end experience and feel playing the Yamaha, but it is very different than the Gibson es335 in my opinion. The Gibson has a more “buttery” and resonant disposition to it which translates into its tone. I’ve noticed that the Yamaha is much quicker to have things like buzzing strings and such start to happen even shortly following a professional setup. The gibsons on the other hand just seem to be a bit more amiable, and in my experience can have a more pleasing tone. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I think it’s important to state that both guitars have an equally high end and luxury feel, resonance and tone - but they’re certainly different.
ill note that the Yamaha does have slightly “cheaper” seeming appointments though - while not being cheap at all whatsoever, but it’s clear that Gibson really caters to the fickle and demanding US customer in that every aspect of the guitar down to the resistance of spin in the volume and tone controls.
I prefer the sound and feel of the Gibson. But, it’s also about $2k more expensive in the model I got which is the figured maple in a natural finish.
Theres certainly a place for each of them in a guitar players quiver - they’re different and have different tones.
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Yeah I just got a base model 60s cherry, and there’s around £700gbp in it between the Japanese equivalents. Which is about what I’d expect for a U.S. made guitar, once I realise Japanese guitars are actually quite high end these days (I’m old haha).
I don’t really get people who say that Gibsons are overpriced. I guess they’ve never seen the pricing for a Collings lol. The question is not if the Gibson is better than a Japanese instrument - clearly the Japanese guitars are often better made but how it compares pricing wise to comparably manufactured instruments of course. (But I’d rather a Collings than a custom high end Gibson.)
but in any case your description is right. Buttery and resonant. The Ibanezes and what have you I tried don’t have this quality. I can plug the es335 into most things and it will sound charismatic. Simple things sound interesting and characterful on it. I’m convinced it really is the wood and construction.
It’s probably best to think of those Japanese semi acoustics as their own separate thing, and some great players clearly love them.Last edited by Christian Miller; 11-11-2023 at 07:13 AM.
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I am really interested to try those Sire 335 clones though. It does seem like they’ve captured some of that 335 quality as far as I can tell.
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I agree regarding the Ibanez guitars. I bought a JSM100 (John Scofield Model) and returned it I was so disappointed. I have to honest, I found the quality poor and the guitar very unapproachable. Yamaha blew it away, by a long shot. Similar pricing, actually Yamaha was a touch cheaper - that Yamaha is truly the best deal I can think of in the world of new guitars or recently made pre owned. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Never played a Collings but I do prefer a Gibson over anything Japanese I’ve tried. I’d really love to play a Benedetto, or a Collings, or a Sadowsky, or better yet - a Languedoc.
those boutique higher quality makes I suppose I’ll get to later in life - 37 here so I’ve got a few years yet to buy guitars
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If money were no object I would just reach straight for an ESP Navigator or a Momose.
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My last Gibson archtop, bought s/h from a forum member, had this same problem with the pots. This together with some other issues, meant that it only lasted a couple of months; it wasn't unusable but it was getting close. I can understand using fast-roll-off pots for distortion players, but on a jazz guitar? All that said, I agree with the various comments about Gibson's " buttery" feel and resonance compared to others, but as a working guitar, the pots have to function appropriately. As a longtime Gibson fanboy, it's a shame. My other, older Gibsons have never had this pots issue, even the Norlin one ( which, oddly, was my favourite 175, as well as the ugliest by a mile..) Originally Posted by NYC
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Ugh these guitars don’t have holes in Originally Posted by DawgBone
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Sure they do. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Navigator Limited Edition 'N' 335 Hollowbody 1980s sunburst | Reverb
Momose MES-Premium/QM #15830 2022 | Reverb
There is also the Seventy Seven guitars Tochi-Exrubato that I bet is pretty killer.
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Doesn't look like Navigator is producing new ES models though^
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ok do we agree
by definition
Log taper = Audio taper ?
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anyway
I had an actual ‘63 335
it had log pots
i didn’t know anything about it
and just accepted the behaviour as
normal
then I got an Ibanez with linear pots
and now i do WAY prefer their
behaviour
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I'm pretty sure the vintage ones have the log pots, ie fairly quick drop to 8. In a distorted amp, it goes quite naturally from lead to rhythm going from 10 to 8. If you ever watch early Clapton or Page videos, they are often just touching their volume controls to ride on that edge. The original Centralab pots on those are quite free and easy to turn usually, and in addition some think they sound better than modern pots. They are very sought after and hard to find. Some modern recreations are said to duplicate the Centralab curve and response, not sure if they get there or even how desirable that would be. Originally Posted by pingu
In addition, with '50's wiring, you don't lose highs when you drop the volume, however when you drop the tone you lose a bit of volume. So there's no free lunch. Personally on my Les Paul, I prefer the '50's wiring by a wide margin so I can drop the volume and keep the highs. On Fenders, if you drop the volume you lose a bit of highs, and a lot of people prefer that. Others get a treble bleed installed. The only time I ever did that I hated it, it seemed to rob the guitar of character to me.
On a jazz guitar, I'm not sure which I prefer, but maybe '50's wiring with a more linear pot. I'll have to check and see what my jazz guitars have. I'm also not sure how it works with one pickup.
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Pencil neck they have, don't they ? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Never saw one in person but that's what I read in their specs if I recall
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I have several dual humbucker guitars with the typical 2 volume + 2 tone controls. They all respond slightly different to adjustment. There are many different factors in play; the pickups themselves and the way they are adjusted as well as the amp and speaker. Originally Posted by NYC
The electronics wiring and component values sometimes makes more difference than replacing pickups. Most of the time I just adapt to the individual guitar, but sometimes I have to do something about it if it's not working for me. Replacing electronics in a 335 is a pita, but a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. For many years they came with Classic '57 pups and 300 k pots that was all mud below 8 on the dial. Changing to CTS 500k audio taper makes a world of a difference imo.
Now, since your guitar is new, it's supposed to have 500k pots already. I don't know if there's modern or 50s wiring or what pickups there are. Try to adjust the pickups and play around with amp settings before you do anything else.
I don't know about your Yamaha, but 500 k audio tapers work like this; you get steep volume roll off from 10-8, then slower from 8 to 1. Use this to your advantage with modern wiring;
Dial in the amp having your guitar volume on 6-7. Then when you increase guitar volume you'll get a volume and a treble boost, that is most useful for distorted leads. If you intend to play clean Jazz only, then you'll probably prefer guitar volume set below 8.
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