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People keep saying Flatwounds... I've never seen anywhere any info on the type of string KB used. Are people just assuming?
Like when someone asks for "Charlie Christian tone" people come out of the woodwork with "Flatwounds", when it's been shown pretty conclusively that he used ROUNDwounds....
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10-20-2023 08:36 AM
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To me, this sounds like flats. It's got brightness, the tone is up, and there are no string zips. You could argue that he has perfect fretting technique and that's why there are no zips.
Which brings up a new issue, does OP want Kenny Burrell's gear, or does he want to sound kind of like Kenny Burrell?
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I don't think flatwound guitar strings were even invented until a year or two before Charlie's death. So certainly, even if he did try them out, most of his playing would have been on rounds. And you can hear that, I think.
Originally Posted by ruger9
This, however, sounds like flatwounds to me. It's the attack and decay.
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There is an 18" Painter with a Charlie Christian pickup for sale on this very forum for under $2000 that I bet could nail this sound.
Tom Painter 18" archtop guitar w/Biltoft CC pickup
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I had an opportunity to spend time with a Heritage Golden Eagle which was a floater. I found it to be brighter and somewhat boomy sounding compared to built-in archtops I've played. I spoke with Roger Borys years ago, and his position was that for a spruce carved archtop, a 17" X 3" lower bout (or greater) is needed for a "full" sound when amplified, that is for those searching for a Wes/Kenney type of sound!
I did have a Heritage Super KB at one time, and while it's sound approached a Super 400, it was more acoustic to my ears.
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Soul Lament:
So, the lack of any snap or brightness in the attack of the wound strings... that's the giveaway you think? I only had flats on archtop once, I have almost n0 personal experience with them.
Hearing how warm even the PLAIN strings are, I was wondering if they (the wounds) could be rounds, with the guitar tone rolled off, since the plains on round and flat sets are the same... and even they are very warm in that audio. Rolling off the tone with de-treble the plain AND roundwounds...
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Certainly possible. Could be really dead roundwounds too... Originally Posted by ruger9
There's enough clarity in the chords that I don't think the treble is rolled off on the guitar too much. Like I can really hear the individual notes. But maybe also because it's a solo guitar track.
But that thuddy (in a good way) low E says flats to me.
But as far as the OP is concerned, you can get fantastic, dark, classic jazz tones with either.
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Yeah to me it's bright enough that I think we'd have string noise if they were roundwounds. An easy way to get this specific sound would be flats. You can get it a lot of ways, but a good place to start is flats.
Like I said, if it's a matter of approximating his sound, flats on a Broadway will get you 70% of the way, a Super 400 with a CC pickup might get you 71% of the way... it's an awful lot of dough for an extra 1% of tone. In my opinion, it's better to focus on playing.
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What do you guys think of this Broadway??
Lots of upgrades. Korean vs China build if that matters.
Epiphone Broadway 2012 w/ SD Seth Lover, TonePros Bridge, | Reverb
He has it on CL also so can negotiate a cheaper price.
These are big guitars right??? LOL.
And a spruce top?
Are they typically heavy??
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Not to mention THE AMP is a huge part of the formula as well, of course... Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Big, yes. Originally Posted by Lkdog
Spruce, yes.
Heavy, yes relatively. Certainly heavier than an ES-125 type (like a Godin 5th Ave Kingpin for example). My Broadway, which was a Peerless-built model, was pretty hefty.
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Mine is the same as that, 7.2 lbs, laminated spruce top. If you play a 335 you could adjust to the size. Originally Posted by Lkdog
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Just my opinion here, but I find it counterproductive to take a carved solid top and mount pickups and pots in it. Every thing you mount in the top takes away some of the reason you’re purchasing a carved solid top in the first place. Originally Posted by himself
That said, what really matters is sound and playability… and the satisfaction of the player. So if it gets you where you as a player want to be, what I just said above is moot.
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Thanks for all of the info.....
So is the top on the Broadway carved or laminated sprucetop? Is a carved top a step up or simply different??
The pickups are mounted in the top of course.
I like the looks of the Broadway and they seem to be well regarded and I am sure is easily good enough for me as a more novice jazz player.
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There was an “Epiphone Elitist” model that is solid carved woods like an L5. The regular Broadway is laminate - should confirm in listings which model it actually is. Originally Posted by Lkdog
Gibson 175 is laminate, so is the 350/Tal Farlow - which is probably the closest Gibson spec to the Broadway. Laminate is not inferior, just a different sound, woodier, a lot of people prefer it actually.
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Laminated. But laminate is not a dirty word in the jazzbox world.
Carved top instruments sound different, not always better. As soon as you start cutting holes in the top you start to negate the overall acoustic sound, but a solid top still resonates differently. But I definitely think that Broadway can get you very close to that sound you're looking for.
Good question now would be, what kind of amp do you have?
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I'd recommend a 1952 Gibson L-48 with an added set-in P-90, volume and tone controls, and a great neck. Slightly sunken top provides clearance for the P-90. Should be @$1,200.
Coincidentally, I'm about to list a guitar that matches those exact specifications.
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I think all the Epiphone Elites had laminate tops but it was a kinda hybrid lamination. A solid pressed piece with a thin veneer on the underside. Originally Posted by RyanM
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We would have never guessed Originally Posted by Hammertone
)
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Yes, the Elitist MIJ archtops had pressed tops and backs, no carved versions. Originally Posted by Archie
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I'm surprised no one mentioned the colour.
I won't...
Seriously, if you want a guitar to sound, it sounds.
OK nothing about what it's asked.
I can understand that owning a guitar that can be heard with the eyes is the most important thing.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I use an AXE FX 3 digital modeler into Yamaha HS8 monitors, or a Matrix power amp and real 1X12 CAB with a Celestion speaker.
The AXE FX 3 models most all of the Fender amps and associated Cabs that one would think of that are traditionally used.
I like the Deluxe Reverb and the Twin Reverb models.
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Fwiw I really like Epi broadways, and they are quite different from es-175 style guitars.
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I haven’t personally worked with an Axe FX but my impression from listening is the fender models were very good. Originally Posted by Lkdog
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I have played a nice '59 VOS ES 175 that my friend has so am familiar with them. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
How do you think they differ?
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