Piezo and Styles

[jazzpazz]

I know what it is and how it works. But I need some insight from someone knowledgeable here.

When was it first it first used?
How normal is to use it?
Is it used more or less in different genres like modern jazz compared to the 1950-60s?
Is it normal to use it more or less on different guitars, like hollow body and semi hollow, or solid body?

Is it used in 60s cool jazz chord melody playing? Like Wes Montgomery and such? This last question is the most important as this the style I want to play, and would be nice to know as im researching what hollowbody I should get

[Peter C]

The design goes back decades, I believe, but no one that I can think of in that era used a guitar with a piezo. Those sounds were produced by single coil and later humbucker magnetic pickups.

[ThatRhythmMan]

The piezo pickup in stringed instruments was used in the early 1920s. Gibson experimented with variations in the early 1930s, prior to them focusing on magnetic pickups.


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[Cunamara]

The piezo pickup in stringed instruments was used in the early 1920s. Gibson experimented with variations in the early 1930s, prior to them focusing on magnetic pickups.

Really! That's the first time I have heard about this, believe it or not.

[sgosnell]

The first piezo pickups I knew about were in the very early '70s, and I have a very early Ovation bought new in 1972. Piezo pickups were available, according the the Google machine, in the 60s, both from Baldwin and Gibson. I've seen nothing earlier than that, but I haven't really done any serious research on the subject. Several welll-known players used the Baldwin Prismatone, including Glen Campbell, Jerry Reed, and Willie Nelson. Willie still uses the same pickup in a different guitar. His Baldwin was destroyed, and he got the Martin and had the Baldwin pickup installed in it. None of these are classic jazz players, of course, and piezo pickups have never become popular in jazz circles. The piezo pickup in my Ovation died in the late '80s, and Ovation sent me a complete electronics package for free. I could have shipped the guitar back to them for installation, but it wasn't at all difficult.

[mr. beaumont]

They're only a sometimes necessary evil. Never a first choice.

[Woody Sound]

The piezo pickup in stringed instruments was used in the early 1920s. Gibson experimented with variations in the early 1930s, prior to them focusing on magnetic pickups.

Wow, I never knew that. I wonder if there any examples out there?

[Woody Sound]

They're only a sometimes necessary evil. Never a first choice.

They sound fantastic on my Carvin flattop and nylon, but I haven't tried an archtop with one. Always wanted to test that Yamaha that had both. AE something?

[Woodstove]

There's one on my Keisel Osiris, (more about that in another thread). When blended with the beryllium pickups, especially in single coil position, it adds a nice character and tone when desired. Awful used alone but a welcome palette option when blended. I just used it recording a blues rag of mine that I'd usually play acoustically. Had a hybrid strat+bright Taylor acoustic voice that came out well.

[John A.]

I know what it is and how it works. But I need some insight from someone knowledgeable here.

When was it first it first used?

Piezo-electric sensors have been used as "contact" microphones for a long time in various applications. I don't know any specific examples, but probably on guitars as far back as the 1930s, but they have never been what jazz players mainly use to amplify guitars. Parenthetically, Selmer offered a built-in piezo transducer as an option which they called the "Varitone". A sax player friend of mine has one in his alto horn, but he doesn't use it. They came into wider use in the early/mid 1970s when it became more common for acoustic folk/pop/rock groups to combine acoustic and electric instruments on stage. The first piezo I can remember coming across were Barcus Berry pickups that you would stick to the bridge or guitar top with putty. I think Ovation was the first guitar maker to build piezos into guitars.

How normal is to use it?

I don't know about "normal," but many people do use them (mainly on flattops, but also on bowed instruments); a large portion of the acoustic guitars on the market these days have piezo under-saddle pickups built in.

Is it used more or less in different genres like modern jazz compared to the 1950-60s?

They were hardly used at all in the 50s and 60s (I don't think there were any piezos for guitars on the market until the late 60s, but I could be wrong about that).

Is it normal to use it more or less on different guitars, like hollow body and semi hollow, or solid body?

The most common use is on flattop acoustic guitars. IME, it's very unusual to find one on an archtop or semi-hollow. Somewhat more common on solid bodies (e.g., Godin, Parker Fly).

Is it used in 60s cool jazz chord melody playing? Like Wes Montgomery and such? This last question is the most important as this the style I want to play, and would be nice to know as im researching what hollowbody I should get

I can't think of anyone who mainly uses a piezo pickup for straightahead jazz. Various people have used them as a different color on their palette (e.g., Sco, Metheny, Kevin Eubanks), but the classic jazz guitar sound is a magnetic pickup in the neck position. If you're looking to buy a hollowbody guitar for playing jazz, don't worry about whether the guitars you're looking at have piezos (but do make sure they have magnetic pickups).

[ThatRhythmMan]

Wow, I never knew that. I wonder if there any examples out there?

I don’t know if there are. I’ve never seen one. This article has some discussion of early piezos.

The Pickup Story, Part I: the 1920s - Premier Guitar


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[Woody Sound]

They sound fantastic on my Carvin flattop and nylon, but I haven't tried an archtop with one. Always wanted to test that Yamaha that had both. AE something?

[Woody Sound]

Has anyone here tried that Yamaha?

[Woody Sound]

Interesting OT, I was reading and watching tv about how some crystals are incredibly efficient conductors.

[daveg]

Sylvain Luc

DG

[daveg]

Martin Taylor with the Yamaha AE1500

DG

[Christian Miller]

I would say the Godin multiacs have become first choice for several acoustic jazz crossover artists. Aside from Sylvan Luc, there’s Nick Meier for example.

[Doctor Jeff]

There are a lot of variations on how piezos are used these days. For instance Taylor positions theirs behind the saddle, which is supposed to decrease the treble “quack”. My Cordoba Stage uses a typical undersaddle plus 2 body pickups mounted on either side of the saddle, with the ability to dial in more/less “body tone” (which tends to be more midrange). It doesn’t sound quacky at all.

I would say there has been a lot of progress in use of piezos since they first were stuck to flattop guitars a few decades ago.

I mean, let’s face it, the “traditional” jazz tone is not an acoustic tone, at least in the context of electric guitar since Charlie Christian. A good guitar with a well-designed contact pickup system and an intelligent preamp and good acoustic amp will provide a nicely different sound for playing many styles including jazz.

(On rereading this it sounds like it was written by a pro-piezo bot, which is not the case…)

[Doctor Jeff]

I would say the Godin multiacs have become first choice for several acoustic jazz crossover artists. Aside from Sylvan Luc, there’s Nick Meier for example.

There was a great player in La Crosse, WI (whose name escapes me unfortunately), who had a Multiac then moved up to a Sadowsky. The Godin sounded good, but the Sadowsky sounded GREAT. I believe it uses an undersaddle piezo.

The website mentions that this model has been used by “Earl Klugh, Pat Metheny, Lee Ritenour, Gilberto Gil, Djavan, Daryl Steurmer, John Abercrombie, John Scofield, Mike Stern, Mick Goodrick, and Keith Richards.”