Swollen Tailpiece on my Trenier, can't remove low E string

[Jimmy blue note]

Trying to pry the ball end with needle nose pliers is a waste of force, you’re likely to slip and scrape the tailpiece..

I was suggesting PUSHING the exposed (silk wound) end from the bridge side, into the hole. Dislodge the tight part by pushing the ball end out, if possible.

There are jewelers files that are well purposed to increasing the bore of the hole once the string is out.


Good luck!

[zephyrregent]

I had a hard time getting the low E string through the tailpiece of my Trenier Jazz Special with a wooden tailpiece. This happened with La Bella 13 gauge, Thomastik 12 gauge and Pyramid 12 guage flatwound strings. The Pyramid E string wouldn't go all the way through and there is a bit of the wound part of the string sticking out of where the string inserts into the tailpiece. I am concerned this will cause tuning problems since the string is not fully in the slot on the tailpiece. So far it hasn't been a problem.

[Bill Eisele]

Once the low E string has hopefully been extracted without any issues, you might want to use a pair of needle nose pliers to squeeze down on the windings just above the ball end of the replacement string before installing it. I have noticed that the windings there can sometime protrude beyond the normal diameter of the string (it can look kind of lumpy) making it impossible to get the string through the hole in the tailpiece. So squeeze down to the extent possible so that area of the string is as close to the normal diameter of the string as possible.

[Woodstove]

I want to thank everyone for their help! I love this forum. The idea to drastically lower the humidity was one of the stupidest I've had in a long time. I'm fully aware of the trouble it can cause but somehow completely forgot what I knew!! The frequency of stupid ideas doesn't change but I'm better at not acting on them until I've thought them through and in this case get reminded by others. To zephyrregent- I am finding the guitar holds tune extremely well thank goodness. Perhaps the best of any of mine. Your experience with the three string brands makes me suspect that if I want to use TI 12s and possibly La Bella Jazz Tape 12s I may get an excellent luthier to open at least the low E hole a bit but I will look into crimping the wrap with needle nose first. I just discovered Flip Scipio lives out here with a great reputation. Anyone here know him? He can't get to me for months in any event. I really like Jimmy's "push rather than pull" suggestion. Since this means cutting the string near the tailpiece I am waiting till after a big show in 2 weeks just in case I still can't get it out so I won't do anything until then. I'll report back when I do. Thanks again....Peter

[rpjazzguitar]

If it's of any help, I noticed that it's possible to buy needle nose pliers with extra small jaws, or extensions, or whatever the business end is called. Apparently, one version is a jeweler's tool.

I'm assuming the ball end is stuck in the hole so that you can't loop anything through the ball end.

Unclear to my why you can't push it out from the neck side with a tiny enough tool, something like a jeweler's screwdriver.

[Woodstove]

If it's of any help, I noticed that it's possible to buy needle nose pliers with extra small jaws, or extensions, or whatever the business end is called. Apparently, one version is a jeweler's tool.

I'm assuming the ball end is stuck in the hole so that you can't loop anything through the ball end.

Unclear to my why you can't push it out from the neck side with a tiny enough tool, something like a jeweler's screwdriver.

The ball is accessible, I only tried pulling it out with an inadequate tool I could insert in the hole. I think pushing from the neck side will be the ticket. I just won't take the chance it still doesn't come out after cutting the string to get to try this and not have the guitar available to me until after a show I'm doing in 2 weeks.

[Bill Eisele]

I have found that a tremolo spring installer is very helpful for extracting strings from a tailpiece when they are stuck. There’s a tiny hook at the end that easily grabs the ball end through the center hole. Of course, protect the top of the guitar around the tailpiece with something in case the tool slips. I like to use a thick piece of leather. StewMac sells the tool but they are available elsewhere: https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...ing-installer/.

[Woodstove]

I have found that a tremolo spring installer is very helpful for extracting strings from a tailpiece when they are stuck. There’s a tiny hook at the end that easily grabs the ball end through the center hole. Of course, protect the top of the guitar around the tailpiece with something in case the tool slips. I like to use a thick piece of leather. StewMac sells the tool but they are available elsewhere: https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tool...ing-installer/.

That looks good Bill! I think I'll try it since I don't have to cut the string and I have nothing to lose except the $18. And who knows, my Strat may need a tremolo spring replacement someday.

[Cunamara]

Attachment 103253

Insert in hole of ball end pull and remove.

D'oh! 44 years of playing guitar and it has never occurred to me to just cut the string off short and take it out from underneath the tailpiece. I'm always just trying to twist and wiggle the thing out (it's the bend in the string at the twist that changes the geometry of getting the ball end out of the hole). What a nice, simple and even elegant solution. No brute force, no risking cracking the wood. Brilliant!

[Woodstove]

I just heard from Bryant. He’s solidly in the cut the string and push it through camp. Good enough for me!!

[Jimmy blue note]

The ball is accessible, I only tried pulling it out with an inadequate tool I could insert in the hole. I think pushing from the neck side will be the ticket. I just won't take the chance it still doesn't come out after cutting the string to get to try this and not have the guitar available to me until after a show I'm doing in 2 weeks.

Don't cut it too short at first. Keep enough of the string so you can actually GRIP the actual string, and push the string you're holding tight INTO the hole. In other words, start by holding the string perpendicular to the string orientation, and firmly pushing the string using the string into the hole.

Grip the string close to the hole, (drop some light lubricating penetrating medium first), and put the force of the string end into the tailpiece so you can pop the ball end from behind.
I've done this and it's worked. Eventually.

[Woodstove]

Don't cut it too short at first. Keep enough of the string so you can actually GRIP the actual string, and push the string you're holding tight INTO the hole. In other words, start by holding the string perpendicular to the string orientation, and firmly pushing the string using the string into the hole.

Grip the string close to the hole, (drop some light lubricating penetrating medium first), and put the force of the string end into the tailpiece so you can pop the ball end from behind.
I've done this and it's worked. Eventually.

thanks brother

[zephyrregent]

To zephyrregent- I am finding the guitar holds tune extremely well thank goodness. Perhaps the best of any of mine.

Woodstove - The bridge needed readjustment to correct the intonation. That seems to have fixed the tuning issue I mentioned earlier and removed. I don't know why it became an issue only recently.

[David B]

Trying to pry the ball end with needle nose pliers is a waste of force, you’re likely to slip and scrape the tailpiece.

Yes, have the dinged Trenier tailpiece to confirm this!

[wintermoon]

Has anyone asked BT why he doesn't drill them to a larger diameter?

[omphalopsychos]

Btw I thought I’d visualize what I described above. Pushing it out makes less sense than pulling it out because when you push you might cause a crease in the string that will make your life harder.

the hook is the best tool but if you don’t have one you can do this with a string really easily. Just thread a string (one you don’t need) through the ball end of the lodged string. Make sure it’s long enough that you can get a good grip. Now tug. I had a guitar with a tailpiece that I had to do this with. Easy task.



note this is a g string just to demonstrate the idea, you should use something heavier.

[floatingpickup]

Btw I thought I’d visualize what I described above. Pushing it out makes less sense than pulling it out because when you push you might cause a crease in the string that will make your life harder.

the hook is the best tool but if you don’t have one you can do this with a string really easily. Just thread a string (one you don’t need) through the ball end of the lodged string. Make sure it’s long enough that you can get a good grip. Now tug. I had a guitar with a tailpiece that I had to do this with. Easy task.



note this is a g string just to demonstrate the idea, you should use something heavier.

That is how I would do it. Pulling instead of pushing makes sense in many ways. Less chance of damaging the guitar that way.
Keith

[wintermoon]

Btw I thought I’d visualize what I described above. Pushing it out makes less sense than pulling it out because when you push you might cause a crease in the string that will make your life harder.

the hook is the best tool but if you don’t have one you can do this with a string really easily. Just thread a string (one you don’t need) through the ball end of the lodged string. Make sure it’s long enough that you can get a good grip. Now tug. I had a guitar with a tailpiece that I had to do this with. Easy task.



note this is a g string just to demonstrate the idea, you should use something heavier.

I thought about that but in the pic he posted the ball end looked tight against the wood of the tp and didn't look like you could get a string in there w out possibly scratching it.

[sgosnell]

A couple of thoughts:

Leaving the string in place risks having it break when tension is reapplied. IME once a string has been removed from a capstan it's no longer dependable, and they tend to break unexpectedly. I would recommend getting it out as soon as possible and replacing it with a new string. I also would not recommend TI strings, because the same thing is likely to happen again. It's just one more reason not to use them.

I think I would approach removal from the pictured tailpiece by using something straight and strong )preferably an awl but a small screwdriver or whatever will fit into the ball should work) into the ball and use leverage against the white strip, likely with something between the strip and the awl to increase the leverage and prevent damage. Prying it with a lever gives the most force available, and should get the movement started. It may be necessary to use something thicker between the awl and the strip as the string moves outward. A flat-tip screwdriver is the most obvious choice, but anything you can get in there will help. A lever gives the most force with the least danger.

If you decide to enlarge the hole, a drill bit of the proper size should do the job, but I would do it by hand, not with a power drill. A pair of small vise-grip pliers will hold the bit, and used slowly and judiciously, should enlarge the hole without damaging anything. If you can find a round file of the proper diameter that will work, perhaps better, but a file of the exact size needed may be difficult to find. Bits are more readily available in graduated sizes. However, if you don't trust yourself to remove the string, you perhaps shouldn't trust yourself to do this work. It might pay to pay someone else with the skills needed.

[Woodstove]

To zephyrregent- I am finding the guitar holds tune extremely well thank goodness. Perhaps the best of any of mine.

Woodstove - The bridge needed readjustment to correct the intonation. That seems to have fixed the tuning issue I mentioned earlier and removed. I don't know why it became an issue only recently.

I thought it was the bridge, glad it's exactly where it belongs!

[Woodstove]

A couple of thoughts:

Leaving the string in place risks having it break when tension is reapplied. IME once a string has been removed from a capstan it's no longer dependable, and they tend to break unexpectedly. I would recommend getting it out as soon as possible and replacing it with a new string. I also would not recommend TI strings, because the same thing is likely to happen again. It's just one more reason not to use them.

I think I would approach removal from the pictured tailpiece by using something straight and strong )preferably an awl but a small screwdriver or whatever will fit into the ball should work) into the ball and use leverage against the white strip, likely with something between the strip and the awl to increase the leverage and prevent damage. Prying it with a lever gives the most force available, and should get the movement started. It may be necessary to use something thicker between the awl and the strip as the string moves outward. A flat-tip screwdriver is the most obvious choice, but anything you can get in there will help. A lever gives the most force with the least danger.


If you decide to enlarge the hole, a drill bit of the proper size should do the job, but I would do it by hand, not with a power drill. A pair of small vise-grip pliers will hold the bit, and used slowly and judiciously, should enlarge the hole without damaging anything. If you can find a round file of the proper diameter that will work, perhaps better, but a file of the exact size needed may be difficult to find. Bits are more readily available in graduated sizes. However, if you don't trust yourself to remove the string, you perhaps shouldn't trust yourself to do this work. It might pay to pay someone else with the skills needed.

greatly appreciated sgosnell. While I am contemplating the more demanding points....what unwrapped strings do you like for jazz?

[deacon Mark]

This is not rock science, and I would have that guitar for only minutes before I took the entire tailpiece off and made it work. No tailpiece is going to dictate what strings I put on the guitar. Obviously, the hole is not big enough so it would get made bigger and fixed.

[Jimmy blue note]

This is not rock science, and I would have that guitar for only minutes before I took the entire tailpiece off and made it work. No tailpiece is going to dictate what strings I put on the guitar. Obviously, the hole is not big enough so it would get made bigger and fixed.

+1
Amen.
I have a list of charges for work needed.
There is a hefty surcharge for customer advice. For good reason.

[Woodstove]

Done!! I found another old thread here discussing the stuck string problem - String stuck in bridge Around the third response Brian B suggested using a "mini pick and hook" and showed a picture. Looked good. Went to local hardware store and bought essentially the same set for $6. Here's what I used.


I covered the tailpiece with a blanket just in case but after a few twists it loosened and was out. I did peel off the wrap with a fingernail, which was easy, before the "operation". MANY thanks to everyone, (especially Brian) and glad to pass along what seems to be a good tool for this job.....Peter

[omphalopsychos]

Nice. Very happy that turned out well and didn't require any risky procedures