Archtop Comparison: Ibanez Japan ( JP20-FG100-AF200)

[Archie]

Hi all,

I've put together this video showing the differences between 3 of Ibanez's archtops; a flagship, artist and standard model.
I've not made this type of video before and am new to making videos in general, so it's far from perfect but I hope enjoyable enough.
Any criticisms and or things I can add going forward, would be great.
I can and likely will amend the video over time to make it more definitive but I think it's ready enough to post now.
I did make audio clips of each guitar but lost them and sold the FG-100, so am unable to redo them. Instead I chose examples of each guitar
being played by looking through videos on YouTube.
I also forgot to measure the top thickness's and that's something I will likely go back and do. They are all roughly 5.5mm for those interested.
I will do the sides and back thickness too at some point.

Ooh and a shout out to Marty Gras. This ones for you! I finally got round to doing some internals.

[frabarmus]

Thank you, nice video, Love all three of them! I was surprised by how much the neck width varies at 12th fret! Would be nice to know the neck-thickness aswell (though I think all three of them have a slim C or D neck (my JP20 had a slim one), very sweet memories of my JP20 back in 1986! Although, after seeing this video it makes more sense why it didn't workout for me in the long run (apart from pickup placement): wide nut and 25.5" scale length, hence replacing it with a second hand GB10 (sweet memories of that one too!

There was also an Ibanez FG100 type model with a florentine cutaway, if I remember (a friend of mine had one), correct? What was the name of that one?

I love Ibanez Jazzboxes! I'm eagerly waiting for my new AF2000 :-)

[Archie]

Thanks Frabarmus.

Good point on the neck thickness.

I’ll find a way to do it and add it on.

I think the florentine model you're referring to is called an FA-100?

[Cunamara]

I think Joe D got the best sound out of that JP20 I've ever heard from one. Nice job! Unfortunately, it's really hard to compare three different instruments played by different musicians under very different conditions and glean a strong sense of what they sound like.

[Archie]

I think Joe D got the best sound out of that JP20 I've ever heard from one. Nice job! Unfortunately, it's really hard to compare three different instruments played by different musicians under very different conditions and glean a strong sense of what they sound like.

Thanks Cunamara.

I agree with you about the sound comparison.
Yes Joe got a good sound, he has a great ear.

Check out Joe pass and Red Mitchell playing in Stockholm, I think the other Joe finally got a good tone out of his too.

[Grigoris]

I am considering upgrading from my Korean Ibanez AF120 which is a lovely instrument and I use it every day. I am not a dentist so I have a limited budget.

Would any of you consider the FG-100 made in Japan in the mid 1980s to be a significant upgrade in terms of feel (I know it's all very subjective), electronics, pickups etc?

Thanks

[Gitterbug]

Korean-made guitars from the 1990s can be very good. If yours is from the latter half, it should have the excellent Super 58 PU's. Given that you're happy with your guitar, I suppose the neck is OK. Think twice. I had an AS-120 thinbody from the same era. The neck was so thin it was entirely at the mercy of the truss rod. My upgrade then was a Yamaha SA-2200. Nevershouldhavesoldthat.

[Archie]

I am considering upgrading from my Korean Ibanez AF120 which is a lovely instrument and I use it every day. I am not a dentist so I have a limited budget.

Would any of you consider the FG-100 made in Japan in the mid 1980s to be a significant upgrade in terms of feel (I know it's all very subjective), electronics, pickups etc?

Thanks

Yes and no. I also have the korean made Af120 and they are cheap, the electrics are rubbish, the neck is scarf joint (if I remember), but they do sound annoying good and are very easy to play.

An FG100 is better in all ways. It will just feel better, look better, have more mojo, sound great BUT, it wont sound 1000 (whatever your currency is) better or play that much better. In fact it might play slightly worse. The AF120 neck is quite thin and the FG100 a little chunkier so it depends what you prefer.

What price are you being offered on the FG100?

[Grigoris]

The one that came up for sale is from 1987 and he’s asking 1000 eur

[Archie]

The one that came up for sale is from 1987 and he’s asking 1000 eur

Worth it imo (condition depending).

[Grigoris]

OK, I'm gassing over the FG100 quite a lot.
Having both the AF120 and the FG100, is it not like buying the same instrument twice?

There is another one up for sale right now, this one is made in Terrada and the asking price is 2550 EUR, which I find a tad excessive.

But... talk me out of my gas please. (OR NOT). I also love that it's in a natural finish. Pity that Dutchbopper is no longer around to ask his opinion, he owns one that he still plays.

[-Milos-]

I'm currently playing an AF2000 & a FG100, both are great. It's a pity Ibanez don't do thoses MIJ archtops anymore. As we are speaking about very specific shapes of guitars & neck profiles, if you feel great with your AF120, go for the FG100, it's a bargain at this price. The only risk I see is you will probably end considering it as your main axe & the beloved AF120 as a spare :-)

[Archie]

OK, I'm gassing over the FG100 quite a lot.
Having both the AF120 and the FG100, is it not like buying the same instrument twice?

There is another one up for sale right now, this one is made in Terrada and the asking price is 2550 EUR, which I find a tad excessive.

But... talk me out of my gas please. (OR NOT). I also love that it's in a natural finish. Pity that Dutchbopper is no longer around to ask his opinion, he owns one that he still plays.

Do not pay over €1,500. Unless you live in Italy of France lol In which case move countries

The AF120 has no soul. There is a world of difference between a cheap archtop made in the early 2000’s in Korea and one made in the 80’s from Japan.

[jzucker]

awesome job!

[Stringswinger]

Archie,

I had a JP-20. I thought it was a well made guitar with a unique sound. But compared to a Gibson ES-175D, it fell short for me in many ways. I suspect that Joe Pass felt the same way. Today my JP-20 is long gone but I have three 175's in my toolbox. In the end, Joe Pass was playing a custom Gibson Es-175.

Guitarists vote with their fingers it seems.

[Archie]

Archie,

I had a JP-20. I thought it was a well made guitar with a unique sound. But compared to a Gibson ES-175D, it fell short for me in many ways. I suspect that Joe Pass felt the same way. Today my JP-20 is long gone but I have three 175's in my toolbox. In the end, Joe Pass was playing a custom Gibson Es-175.

Guitarists vote with their fingers it seems.

Totally fair.

That’s why I’m attempting to remake the body with the pickup in the right position. If I ever mange to get it done, I’ll be sure to send it on to you for your thoughts!

Stay tuned!

[jzucker]

Totally fair.

That’s why I’m attempting to remake the body with the pickup in the right position. If I ever mange to get it done, I’ll be sure to send it on to you for your thoughts!

Stay tuned!

i'd give serious consideration to a 20 fret fingerboard. Rarely does a jazz guitarist use the extra 2 frets and the pickup placement on a 20 sounds much better to me.

[Archie]

i'd give serious consideration to a 20 fret fingerboard. Rarely does a jazz guitarist use the extra 2 frets and the pickup placement on a 20 sounds much better to me.

I agree, they will be getting chopped off when I make the prototype. You can get the body already from the AF200 and FG100 (same plates and exact body shape) but they have the extra pickup and they don't have the 25 1/2” scale length which is why I really like the Jp20.

So JP20 with 20 frets, pickup in the right place and the 25 1/2 scale. That is what I’m aiming for.

[Archie]

For those who haven't seen it, here is a video of me making an exact replica top plate (shape) of a JP20, in preparation for the rebuild.

The plate is just a rough first test so I used scarp woods etc.. but the shape came out really well.

[Chris236]

Hmmm….I liked the pickup in its original spot. You could roll the tone off and get a great sound that was warm, cut through in a nice way and you could comp with a pick at high volume without it ever getting boomy. Misunderstood guitar IMO. Biggest problem with that guitar was the incredibly slim neck…(on the one I had). If anything, moving that PU into the es175 position would make sense and I *enjoy* the extra couple frets when accessible …..my 2 cents.

[jzucker]

I agree, they will be getting chopped off when I make the prototype. You can get the body already from the AF200 and FG100 (same plates and exact body shape) but they have the extra pickup and they don't have the 25 1/2” scale length which is why I really like the Jp20.

So JP20 with 20 frets, pickup in the right place and the 25 1/2 scale. That is what I’m aiming for.

that sounds excellent. I love my GB and PM guitars but my 25.5" scale guitars just sound better

[jzucker]

Hmmm….I liked the pickup in its original spot. You could roll the tone off and get a great sound that was warm, cut through in a nice way and you could comp with a pick at high volume without it ever getting boomy. Misunderstood guitar IMO. Biggest problem with that guitar was the incredibly slim neck…(on the one I had). If anything, moving that PU into the es175 position would make sense and I *enjoy* the extra couple frets when accessible …..my 2 cents.

rolling off the tone doesn't get you there because the harmonic content of where the pickup samples the string is totally diff. The tone of the JP20 is closer to using 2 pickups on a traditional 175 style instrument and the ebony fb and maple neck exacerbate that

[Chris236]

rolling off the tone doesn't get you there because the harmonic content of where the pickup samples the string is totally diff. The tone of the JP20 is closer to using 2 pickups on a traditional 175 style instrument and the ebony fb and maple neck exacerbate that

Doesn’t get you where? To sound like a 175? Of course not, it’s a completely different guitar. Sonically, it’s one of a few that really did get me ‘there’ and could do it consistently at different venues, volume levels and formats.

And - yes, it was almost like having a humbucker it the middle position. One of the things that made it unique….underutilized position IMO. It worked on that guitar and I miss it.

[jzucker]

Doesn’t get you where? To sound like a 175? Of course not, it’s a completely different guitar. Sonically, it’s one of a few that really did get me ‘there’ and could do it consistently at different venues, volume levels and formats.

And - yes, it was almost like having a humbucker it the middle position. One of the things that made it unique….underutilized position IMO. It worked on that guitar and I miss it.

I was replying to the idea that you could simulate the neck pickup placement by just rolling the tone control down. We'll have to agree to disagree because most people didn't like it, including Joe Pass.

[Chris236]

I was replying to the idea that you could simulate the neck pickup placement by just rolling the tone control down. We'll have to agree to disagree because most people didn't like it, including Joe Pass.

Yeah, I never said it sounded like a humbucker mounted at the end of a 20 fret fretboard….. right??? A strength IMO.

Can’t speak for JP; although he certainly played it enough despite what lore has told us his feelings were regarding the guitar and pu zip code. At any rate, happy to disagree regarding the sonic merit of the instrument…aside from the thin neck, I’d say it was great.