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What are Gibson solid formed guitars?
Do they route a solid chunk of wood? I know they are not too common.
Doug
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02-09-2023 10:29 PM
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Pretty extensive writeup was posted some time ago, hope that helps: Gibson Solid Formed a message from Bruce Kunkel
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They're made pretty much the same way laminated tops are made, with just a single non-laminated layer. Bending wood to shape is common, especially on guitars. Every archtop that I know of has wood that is bent much more than required for a top - the sides require serious bends, and they're stable. Tops and backs for archtops don't need nearly as much bending. I don't know that I've ever played a 'solid formed' guitar, but the concept makes a lot of sense to me.
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Thanks. That satisfied my curiosity. Guitars'nJazz has one for sale right now Kind of a rare bird.
Originally Posted by JSanta
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I think Peerless has a few.
Last edited by Woody Sound; 02-10-2023 at 01:23 PM.
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My Harmony Brilliant Cutaway is a great guitar both acoustically and with the added RC1000 pickup.
As I said in the other post, there are pluses and minuses to using a formed top compared to a carved top, but I'm surprised it isn't done more often, since its much faster and cheaper than carving.
For Gibson to make a big deal out of it and charge an arm and a leg is ridiculous, but I'm sure they made a nice guitar.
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Ibanez has/had the SJ300 and the SS300 Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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I had a Gretsch G400 that had a solid pressed top. It was quite a nice sounding/playing guitar and had a nice acoustic voice, but it wasn't on par with a good carved top instrument. It's hard to describe but I find if playing harder (for example if you're playing rhythm guitar with a couple horns players) the Gretsch would run out of puff, even though played softly it had decent volume and a nice sound. My carved top guitars tend to get louder the harder you play them. With a floating pickup the Gretsch sounded terrific and in a gig setting would be hard to distinguish from a carved top guitar.
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The Epiphone Century Masterbilt series from a few years back had pressed spruce tops. They were pretty decent sounding, but nowhere near as loud as a carved top (or pretty much any flattop) Ditto for the Guild A150 Savoy. The Gibson Solid Formed comes a lot closer to being a legit acoustic archtop than all of the above. I don’t know how they managed to do that.
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Start with a well made flat plate that could make good flat-top guitar, and then press it carefully so as not to degrade it? Originally Posted by John A.
The sides don't contribute to the sound (for all practical purposes) other than by closing the box and keeping the top and back at their proper distance. So it doesn't really matter if how (much) you bend them. Not so for the plates: it's easy to imagine that you'd degrade whatever intricate internal structure is required for producing good quality sound by using copious amounts of heat, humidity and pressure to shape them as fast as possible.
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If you look at the other thread that just got revived, there's some discussion about the Solid Formed being more steeply arched than most other archtops, and maybe that's the reason it's relatively loud. Gibson itself has never really explained exactly how they did it, apart from some marketing-speak about a secret-sauce pressing process they came up with. TBH, I tried one a few years back, and it didn't strike me as all that crazy loud, but it's tricky to judge archtop volume from the player's position, and maybe I was wrong about that. To your other point about the sides not contributing to the sound, not sure why you'd say that.. Different woods and different shapes of the box clearly do affect the sound. That's why guitars are made with different woods in different shapes. Originally Posted by RJVB
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I’ve played some very quiet solid guitars and some loud laminates.
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I would have to play one to be sure, but I seriously doubt I would trade my VDA for one.
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It is commonly accepted (AFAIK) that the back wood in a flat-top contributes to the sound character of the instrument for 20-25% at most (however you'd measure that), less in a laminate back. Different shapes of course give a different sound character but IMHO via the active parts; top, internal air volume and back. FWIW, a very good builder like Ben WIlborn uses laminate sides simply because they're more rigid and robust. Originally Posted by John A.
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BTW,
If data from bowed instruments is in anyway relevant here it is unlikely that higher arched guitars are louder than lower. Originally Posted by John A.
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Like I said, I don't know how they achieved the louder volume. Originally Posted by RJVB
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A student of mine had a solid formed Gibson. It really sounded great acoustically and plugged in.
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FWIW, isn't the L48 built the same way? The ones I've heard sound really nice.
Also, there seems to be less doubt about "stressed" plates where the arch comes from glueing onto shaped bracing (and the rims, I presume). Wouldn't those plates adopt this forced shape over time?
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I have on of the Vestex D'angelico Copies from way back 2001. These were the best of the copies made by far at least overseas. Mine was made in Japan and is an 18 inch NY-4. I have mentioned this before and will again. These are solid spruce tops that a press/molded in to shape by some process I assume heat, water, and pressure. Then they are braced as typical X braced carved top that D'angelico made.
MIne is loud and sounds equally as good as most fully carved arcthops I have played. It could easily be used as an acoustic archtop, which is actually is, but of course most are playing amplified so that is the aim mostly. Mine is very warm and believe it or not sometimes I take out one of my very fine carved tops guitars and ask myself a question. Maybe carving at top is a bit overrated, if other things are done well? I might add it sound better than many carved tops guitars I have played. No it is not my real D'angelico in sound but hey....for the money I have played many handmade and factory guitars worth above $5000 that do not sound as good.
I am not sure how they managed that but I must add the guitar is light not heavy and it has the full New Yorker brass tailpiece that is good boat anchor. The neck is fantastic and equal to any of my Gibson for playing. To me these guitars might be the best deal, but as SS says the whole D'angelico line of cheap imports have destroyed the name and general reputation.
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The VDAs are fantastic guitars; I would LOVE to try an NYL-4
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Amen to all that! My NYL-3 seemed to outperform my NYL-4. Go figure! Originally Posted by deacon Mark;[URL="tel:1248813"
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In post-WWII terms: Originally Posted by RJVB
The L-48 is, for the most part, a 16" guitar with laminated top and back plates.
The L-50 is the same guitar, but with a carved spruce top plate and laminated back plate. Fancier decor than the L-48.
The L-4 is the same as the L-50, but with fancier decor than the L-50.
The L-4C is the same as the L-4, but has an elevated fretboard.
In my experience, the size of the box has a huge effect - 17" and 18" acoustic archtops with solid pressed tops sound way better than 16" acoustic archtops with solid pressed tops. And 17" and 18" acoustic archtops with laminated plates sound way better than 16" acoustic archtops with laminated plates.
Gibson, Harmony, Kay, Regal, and other archtop guitar makers have been using solid as well as laminated pressed top and back plates since the 1930s. Nothing new about it. In Europe, after WWII, thousands and thousands of acoustic archtops (mostly German) were built with solid pressed as well as laminated top plates.
As far as the Gibson Solid Formed 17" archtop goes, I think it would have done well if it had been less expensive and had a less stupid name. The ones I have played are very nice guitars and sound great.
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FWIW - I have my Solid Formed listed on ebay right now at a greatly reduced price. Great guitar, but I need the cash.
Gibson Solid Formed 17" Archtop Bourbon Burst - MINT | eBay
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That looks very nice indeed. Good luck with it! Originally Posted by JazzWhiteBelt
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Agreed. I find 16 and 17" solid pressed Archtops to be more like gypsy jazz guitars in their acoustic response. Originally Posted by Hammertone
I think that might be why many people wanted to love but struggled to some degree, with the Epiphone Elite range.
I had the D'aquisto NY variant and have played the D'Angelico variant. I thought both guitars sounded identical. With all things being equal, they should sound somewhat different.
Other peoples mileage may vary of course and rightfully so.
Great guitars though and our Joe D, got a good tone out of his JP D'aquisto.
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