Gibson ES-165 volume problems

[Nadude95]

Hey everyone, I have a gibson es 165 with a Gibson BjB pickup and had it set up a couple of times. I had a problem with the pickup being extremely weak on the first string (e4) when amplified, and its especially noticeable when you cut some treble of the amp.
The solution I used in the past was to have a thicker string in the first string and thinner strings on the entire guitar to compensate for the lack of volume.
Recently, my setup guy noticed the pickup isn't fully centred in the guitar...meaning the centre of it is more towards the D string rather than in between the G and D strings, which leaves less space for the high e string results in a weak magnetic field in the treble strings. Has anyone encountered a problem like that? This is how the guitar comes from the factory by the way
would moving the pickup to the centre resolve the situation? Does anyone here even own a 165?

[Little Jay]

Things you can do (but perhaps already tried?):

- move the whole bridge so the high E sits directly over the pole piece;
- turn up the pole piece of the high E-string
- turn down the pole pieces of the other strings
- turn up the whole pickup on the treble side and turn down the bass side
- use a thicker high E string

It's probably only a matter of a few millimeters, you could also (have a luthier) enlarge the pickup cutout towards the treble or bass side (whatever would center it) and move the hole pickup. With a bit of luck it will still all be covered by the pickup frame.

EDIT: comes to mind only now, but also check the slot of the top nut of the high E... an improperly cut slot can also do strange things to string vibration. Do you have a TOM-bridge or a wooden one?

[SOLR]

Hey everyone, I have a gibson es 165 with a Gibson BjB pickup and had it set up a couple of times. I had a problem with the pickup being extremely weak on the first string (e4) when amplified, and its especially noticeable when you cut some treble of the amp.
The solution I used in the past was to have a thicker string in the first string and thinner strings on the entire guitar to compensate for the lack of volume.
Recently, my setup guy noticed the pickup isn't fully centred in the guitar...meaning the centre of it is more towards the D string rather than in between the G and D strings, which leaves less space for the high e string results in a weak magnetic field in the treble strings. Has anyone encountered a problem like that? This is how the guitar comes from the factory by the way
would moving the pickup to the centre resolve the situation? Does anyone here even own a 165?

Is it the pick up? or the bridge ...etc..?

Any pics?

S

[Nadude95]

Things you can do (but perhaps already tried?):

- move the whole bridge so the high E sits directly over the pole piece;
- turn up the pole piece of the high E-string
- turn down the pole pieces of the other strings
- turn up the whole pickup on the treble side and turn down the bass side
- use a thicker high E string

It's probably only a matter of a few millimeters, you could also (have a luthier) enlarge the pickup cutout towards the treble or bass side (whatever would center it) and move the hole pickup. With a bit of luck it will still all be covered by the pickup frame.

EDIT: comes to mind only now, but also check the slot of the top nut of the high E... an improperly cut slot can also do strange things to string vibration. Do you have a TOM-bridge or a wooden one?

So many good suggestions thanks for the reply! unfortunately the pickup doesn't have pole pieces (at least external ones).
I have tried using a thicker string and that worked decently well but it messes with how the guitar feels a little bit.
Does my pickup have pole pieces in it? I do like the idea of moving the whole pickup a little bit towards the centre, which is where it was supposed to be in the first place. I have a TOM bridge that sits on a piece of wood with a metal tailpiece. The guitar has also apparently went through some neck damage and repair so maybe something happened to it acoustically? but because it generally sounds pretty good I just think its a magnetic field problem.

[Nadude95]

Is it the pick up? or the bridge ...etc..?

Any pics?

S

its the pickup. It is off centre, which is how Gibson manufactured those guitars

[SOLR]

its the pickup. It is off centre, which is how Gibson manufactured those guitars

here,s a pic from a recent post/thread Gibson ES-165 - I’m in Love look like yours?










and on the same thread there's a rich severson vid of the guitar

from your description sounds like you have a different p-up all together (why I asked for a pic)

S

[SOLR]

or you have this one with the floater?

S

[sgosnell]

You could raise the treble side of the pickup, getting it closer to the strings. If you have the floating pickup version, that could be done by putting an additional thin spacer between the pickguard and the current spacer. It will be hard to move the pickup laterally, because of the way the pickguard is mounted. Not impossible, but it would require filling the current screw hole in the top and redrilling it, or else removing and reinstalling the pickup on the pickguard. Those would not be the first things I would try. Mounting a floating pickup on a pickguard is always somewhat problematic, because getting the correct orientation and placement of everything is difficult.

[SOLR]

another thread with our own "experts" Gibson ES-165 Herb Ellis with floating pickup

S

[Nadude95]

or you have this one with the floater?

S

sorry yeah this. forgot to mention its this version with Bjb floating pickup

[Nadude95]

You could raise the treble side of the pickup, getting it closer to the strings. If you have the floating pickup version, that could be done by putting an additional thin spacer between the pickguard and the current spacer. It will be hard to move the pickup laterally, because of the way the pickguard is mounted. Not impossible, but it would require filling the current screw hole in the top and redrilling it, or else removing and reinstalling the pickup on the pickguard. Those would not be the first things I would try. Mounting a floating pickup on a pickguard is always somewhat problematic, because getting the correct orientation and placement of everything is difficult.

Well im planning on selling the guitar but if end up keeping it wouldn't changing the position of the pickup laterally be the best option long term? Plus i'll probably pay a professional to do it, assuming it won't cost too much. This guitar is expensive so putting some extra love and care into it isn't the end of the world. I even thought about replacing the pickup altogether for a benedetto or something.

Edit: I also just saw a video of an Gibson L5 Premier with the same pickup and apparently it suffers from a similar issue. So it just might be that the pickup is weak on the top strings.

[SOLR]

Well im planning on selling the guitar but if end up keeping it wouldn't changing the position of the pickup laterally be the best option long term? Plus i'll probably pay a professional to do it, assuming it won't cost too much. This guitar is expensive so putting some extra love and care into it isn't the end of the world. I even thought about replacing the pickup altogether for a benedetto or something.

Edit: I also just saw a video of an Gibson L5 Premier with the same pickup and apparently it suffers from a similar issue. So it just might be that the pickup is weak on the top strings.

Ahhh you have not watched /listened to the links I posted...that p-up sounds fantastic...do not change it before you do listen...and contact max or big mic.....it's worth it... And again, a picture is worth a thousand words..... show us



S

[Herbie]

The ES165 with the floater was my first ”real” jazz guitar too.

In the end I realised that the floater was not my cup of tea. So I ordered a more PAF like floater from Pete Biltoft. I made a new pickguard for it.

(At the end I sold it and bought an ES175 with a full size humbucker. If I had bought a humbucker version of ES165 at first, I might have been satisfied at once and avoided some extra hassle...)

The BJB is a wonderful pickup but I have read that it works best with carved archtops, not so good with laminate guitars.

And the ES165 has laminated top so there is a possibility to just hit Your head to the wall and get nowhere.

But this is only theory, if You find a sweet spot for the BJB, there You go!