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Yeah. I've not posted any followup on my Wu build because I've just been so disappointed and embarrassed. As someone in this thread mentioned, the nitro was soft, the spray was uneven (non-existent in places, the paint around the port was incomplete, frets needed finishing, there was glue!!! all over the neck,etc.) It sat in my home for awhile before I could even bring it up to playing tension as I felt like a fool dumping $2500 on a Chinese build that took more than a year and was such crap. I finally brought it up to tension, played a bit and realized it had to go to the luthier I use, but honestly, I was embarrassed. A few days later I took it from the case and noticed the strings were slack. I took it to the luthier that day and man, oh man. He was polite but offered that it looked a lot like a kids first attempt at a build. The strings were slack because not enough glue and clamping was used when building the peghead and the tension of the strings pulled the wood apart. Long story short, he stabilized the peghead and neck, leveled the frets, removed the glue and refinished the fretboard, fixed the action and intonation and advised me to forget about the finish as the cost of redoing it was way over the value of the instrument. His charge added another $1000 to the build. It's pretty if you don't look too closely. I don't play it because of the crap memories of my 70th birthday guitar present. I bought a little "scratch and dent" Baby Taylor from a box house for $200, had my luthier put on d'addario Flat Tops, 12-53, set it up like I like for $100 and it's become my daily driver. I'm considering putting my collection up on consignment. I'm too old for this shit anymore. Think before using them for anything. Just my opinion and experience.
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01-08-2025 02:39 PM
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Martin & Chicks
Originally Posted by Zlwilliams7
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Here are some pics of the guitar at the shop. The bridge base was cut down and sanded to form a better connection with the top. The glue seems to have been from the fret install, it had to be all removed from between the frets and then refinished. Then the frets had to be leveled. You can see the spiderweb cracks in the peghead where the finish cracked when the strings pulled it out of place. It's solid now. I'm not bothering with a pic of the half painted sound port or the unlacquered lower soundhole, and i can't show in pics how uneven the finish is. It sounds kinda OK but like I said, it's just a reminder of how I screwed up. In retrospect, I just should have left it in the case and used the grand towards a better instrument, but I wasn't thinking clearly.
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You're looking at shipping damage there. Those craze marks are classic fracture lacquer checks from where the headstock was torqued and the back headstock lamination join has been compromised. That happened after it was shipped.
Didn't your luthier bring that to your attention?
Immediate red light affirmation is your description of the detuning of the guitar after you strung it to pitch.
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What a pity. I empathize with what you’ve had to go through.
My 18” was purchased 6 years before Covid, and the entire process was seamless. It was shipped to me 4 months from the order date.
I’m wondering if Wu has simply retired and someone else has taken over his shop?
There’s absolutely no way for anyone here to know, and it’s likely they’d not inform anyone.
It’s difficult to explain the difference in the process of how your guitar was handled. Wu and Lora had a decent if not perfect reputation here with lots of recommendations. But in business it only takes one foulup before ruining a reputation.
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A Chartin? A Martese? A Mandartin? Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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Mandartin. This is the way Originally Posted by Cunamara
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There is a lot of risk in a custom build. Shipping damage, death of the builder, fraud all come to mind. And another possibility is all could go well, but you may not like the guitar in any case.
Furthermore, online buying of guitars sight unseen that are already built brings a lot the same risks.
My experience informs me that the best bets are:
A) Buy local if you can, that way you know what you are getting. No surprises is a good thing when it comes to peace of mind.
B) Buy from a dealer with a great reputation. If there is a problem, most likely, they will handle it (that is part of getting a great reputation) and usually, if you don't love the guitar, you can return it and simply be out the shipping charges.
C) Buy guitars from long time members of this forum. My experience is that the folks here know guitars and want to keep their reputations intact. It is akin to buying from the best dealers.
D) Put your online purchases on an American Express card. Amex is the only card that, IME, has your back. But even then, there is risk.
@ah.clem: My advice is sell that guitar for whatever you can get and don't look back. It is hard for a guitar to inspire your playing when there is resentment in the air.
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Originally Posted by ah.clem
That is a bummer all around. You may be "too old for this shit" but I'm just right to be neck deep. If you want to part ways with a bad memory (and as long as your luthier got it playing well and solid) I'm looking for a blonde archtop. Keep me in mind if you decide to part ways!
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But many here have purchased over 100 guitars each online without a single incident. Perhaps we were simply lucky? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Jimmy, I really respect your opinion on this but I went over the instrument for about 20 minutes looking for any sign of shipping damage and you will just have to trust me when I say those craze marks did not exist when I took the guitar out of the shipping container and the case. If you are saying that there was no indication of the damage until I brought it up to tension and you could then flex the head and see the open seam then in not sure what to say. In any case, I was done with Wu and Lora and all the long periods of silence followed by bs emails. 14 months is a long time to be patient. In any case, it's mine and it's about the best it will be and I actually got it out of the case and played it about a half hour and I'll probably put it back in rotation. It's just associated with bad memories and I see the defects in the finish and it just reminds me of the mistakes I made.
By the way, I have shipped and received about a dozen guitars (even a few from China) and have never seen this crazing. I even moved 24 archtops from the east coast to the west in a commercial van and had no issues. I hear you on this, but I really trust my luthier's opinion. I'm taking a 7 string in for him to do some work on in a few weeks and I will mention this to him and get his take. In any case, it's what I got.
I do thank you for your comments and opinion, I really respect your advice.
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This to me would be an interesting project guitar. If I could see it in person or more detail. Strip the finish and refinish and then do any work on the body it needs. For a steel deal in might be worth it since otherwise it looks ok how does it sound?
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All great advice by Stringswinger,especially paying with Amex.That being said i have bought most of my guitars the last 12 years online and the few problems i had was resolved because i bought from a reputable dealer.Obviously who you buy from can save a lot of headaches. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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They only take PayPal and even though I used my AmEx there it was way past anything they could do through PayPal and, interestingly enough, PayPal is powerless in China.
It might make an interesting project for someone with the skills but the guy that shoots my luthier's guitars in the shop said it wasn't worth his time or my money.
I did notice yesterday what a nice setup my guy did and it really plays and sounds pretty good acoustically. Getting some distance helped, i guess. It was supposed to be an acoustic couch guitar and i purchased a DeArmond for eventual install along with under fingerboard vol and tone, but without the wired endpin i paid for but didnt get, that will also have to wait for a trip to the shop. Not sure it will be worth it as I have a bounty of guitars to play now and can't do them justice. I had just hoped to leave them all to my grandson but he has no interest. It's now in the rack for playing rotation but I think I need to hang on to it as a reminder to not go looking for a great deal.
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They are unacceptable finishes by any standards. I attach similar photos of my guitar. Originally Posted by ah.clem
Last edited by nbevan3; 01-20-2025 at 07:54 AM.
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Hard to tell but that looks like a dark grain line, not a finish flaw. These are things I see when I'm choosing a billet of wood to work with. Some years climate conditions will cause the annular ring to grow in an unusual way, and this shows up as a darker, or sometimes wider ring. Is that streak bookmatched on the other side?
This is why I'll choose a AAA quarter cut piece of wood for starters.
In my experience, the tap or weight of a wedge will tell me more than the looks or streaks of a piece of wood. Grain is a very idiosyncratic thing, and doesn't necessarily mean a better or worse sounding guitar in the end. The luthier determines the ultimate ring tone through arching and carving. But, it does look non-uniform.
Did you ask for the AAA wood when you ordered it? Gibson and many builders eliminate wood like this, not because it makes an inferior wood, but because people care a lot about the way it looks. You'll find wood like this is used for Gibson's coloured lacquer woods (strip down a black one, you may see this).
It does look like wide grain lines. But again, there is not a necessary correlation between tight grain and better sound. It just gives the luthier a different set of parameters to work with.
Bill Leavitt had an old Epiphone he loved. He had to have work done on it and when they took it down to the wood, he discovered that every other annular ring had been PAINTED in! Now THAT's skill!
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It is, I am happy with 'my' finish and the acoustics Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
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I only got back into this thread to bring some closure to my build story and to offer my bad experience with a Chinese build that has cost me a total of $3000 and 14 months (if I'm recalling correctly) to purchase and make playable. Personally, I would never recommend anyone do this but obviously many folks here have and enjoyed good experiences. Obviously, experiences will vary.
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Built by Wu. I don’t believe your guitar was built by Wu. Originally Posted by ah.clem
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An honest response from an honest customer. I had similar experiences during the build phase but I was happy with the final product. Originally Posted by ah.clem
Buyers beware!
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I embarked on my journey during the COVID-19 pandemic, a time when the entire world was under lockdown. It is important to consider my experience within this context, as global disruptions inevitably affected communication and production timelines.
The process began with several months of email exchanges with the representative facilitating my order. During this phase, they were highly responsive, typically replying within a few hours. We worked together to finalise the specifications and agree on a price. To reassure me about the quality of the guitars, the representative provided the contact details of a customer in the UK who had recently purchased a similar guitar. I reached out to them, and their feedback was generally positive. They reported excellent build quality, accurate intonation, and high-quality strings. They also mentioned that the hard case, while well-shaped to the guitar, was slightly too deep, requiring some modification to prevent movement during transit.
However, they highlighted a significant delay in the delivery of their guitar, which arrived ten months after the initial order, despite an original estimate of six months. They noted that communication with the representative was challenging, as questions were not always answered directly or promptly, and their influence over the factory seemed limited. Nevertheless, they were satisfied with the packaging and the condition of the guitar upon arrival.
Encouraged by this feedback, I proceeded with my order, sending a 50% deposit in December 2022 (using PayPal). Unfortunately, my experience following the payment was less-than-smooth. Communication became increasingly difficult, and despite repeated requests, I struggled to obtain a definitive completion date.
Throughout this process, I encountered several challenges that others considering a similar purchase should be aware of:
1. Time Zone Differences: Since China is 12 hours ahead of my location, responses are typically received the following day (at best!). This can slow down communication significantly.
2. Factory vs. Retail Expectations: It is important to recognise that purchases are made directly from a factory (I did not use Mr Wu directly) rather than a traditional retailer. The level of customer service is not tailored to individual buyers, and the experience reflects that difference.
3. Limited Influence of the Representative: The representative acts as an intermediary and does their best to facilitate communication, but they appear to have limited influence over the factory’s priorities and schedules. Consequently, estimated completion dates are unreliable.
Conclusion
I’ve had my guitar for more than 12 months now, and I can’t get it out of my hands. Despite the wait and the stress of the delivery process, it was well worth it.
Would I go through the process again? A year ago, my answer would have been “definitely not,” but now, after having the guitar in my hands, my perspective has changed.
While the process was far from smooth, the quality and craftsmanship of my guitar make it a worthwhile investment. The competitive price makes it an attractive option for those willing to endure the delays and uncertainty, but be prepared for a much longer wait than you may initially expect.
It’s also worth noting that others have commented on the poor quality of the electronics, and I support that criticism (I knew that I would need to redo the pickup etc locally). Additionally, I’ve seen some comments about poor finishing recently, but I cannot personally confirm the issues with the finishing—mine appears to have been done well.
I write this not to dissuade potential customers - nor to persuade them - I intend this to manage potential customer’s expectations. This forum has a wealth of experiences about the guitars from the Yunzhi factory and there are a significant number of people who have not had “great experiences” but most would attest that the guitars are good quality (with the exception of the electrics).
Last edited by nbevan3; 01-20-2025 at 04:53 PM.
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I agree that Clem's guitar does not look like a Wu build. Going through Lora does not guarantee that the guitar will be built by Wu unless that is specified, because she represents multiple factories and builders. I have no idea what was or was not specified in this case, just saying that the guitar is not representative of what I've seen previously from him. I have three guitars that he built, and have seen many photographs here and elsewhere, and that level is nowhere near what I've come to expect. Again, I have no idea at all about what happened in this case.
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Just lost my message, frustrating.
I have numerous emails from Lora assuring that Wu would be doing the entire build, from selecting the wood to doing the finish. I had to pay an extra $500 for this privilege.
I agree that this build looks nothing like the photos you have presented, and I agree with my luthier's opinion that it looks like a teenager's build, including the messed up, under glued peghead that looks like crap and pulled loose (you could have slid a business card into the separation). While I believe this is/was fraud, Amex said they couldn't do anything as did PayPal due to everything happening in China. I probably could have pushed more, but why? After 14 months of stories (including one that Wu built the wrong instrument and would have to start over) I was well done and happy that I had anything in hand. I have all the correspondence between Lora and myself, but unless there's an urgent need for someone to have it, I'm not really ready to step up and share how stupid and gullible I was. I can assure you, many, many emails were exchanged regarding specifics, then once the 50% deposit was sent, everything went silent unless I sent multiple emails a day just to find out what progress has been made. I stupidity trusted Lora's assertions that Wu was making progress because I wanted to believe that I wasn't being scammed. When it finally arrived I was so ashamed that after a 15-20 minute look-over I sent an email saying it was fine and thanks. I was an idiot. Fortunately, my wife didn't point it out to me (she never has to.) That's pretty much all I'll say unless someone has a specific question. At this point I don't have any pride left about what a tool I was. I knew I'd be sharing this story here one day, I just had to suck up my embarrassment.
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I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I don't know what happened or why, but I do know that things have been becoming somewhat chaotic in China over the past couple of years, and getting worse not better. My final Wu took longer than expected, but it was in the middle of the COVID pandemic, and not unexpected, but it is a nice guitar. I have no apology for what happened to you, and I don't know what is happening over there now. I can't say if this was on Lora, Wu, or both. I don't think you have any reason to be embarrassed by this. You seem to have done your due diligence, but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control.
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An extra $500 simply to have Wu build your guitar? When did that start? Over 10 years ago that was the norm, and it was expected Wu would do the build! There was no $500 charge for his services!
Okay, here’s what I’m thinking. 10 years ago Wu was probably over 50 years old. My guess is that it’s likely he’s now retired. Or he’s sold his business and one of his former students is now running that business. Whatever the situation, it’s China. No one knows what is going on over there.
Everyone on this forum who ordered a guitar knew that you had to go through Lora because she was the one who knew some English, or it was she who was operating an English app.
Bottom line. Ordering anything from China has risks. It’s unfortunate that the OP had to endure his experiences. But that was not the norm 10 years ago that others experienced, who generally received their guitars within 6 months.
And another thing. Well over 10 years ago it was a known fact that it was best to order an acoustic because the Chinese didn’t know diddly squat about electronics. So why 8 years after that’s a known fact is someone ordering a guitar with electronics and then complaining about the electronics? WT*?
At best these were 2nd rate guitars, and everyone here knew that. Therefore, to hold a Wu built guitar to the standard of a normal Custom build in the states or Europe seems confusing. We don’t expect to get a Gibson for $2k. But in the end it’s China.
And I wonder if the OP even dealt with Lora. My guess is it’s likely she moved on years ago and probably gave her email address to someone who’s working for whatever company is building guitars, who also speaks zero English. That would explain the lack of communication.
Again it’s China. And no one knows who they’re communicating with via email. Hard facts.
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