New Gibson Archtops?

[Jimmy blue note]

Bummer for you. I've had excellent luck with used, carved Gibson archtops. My last one was a 1995 L-5WES, a fantastic guitar. Only ever encountered one serious dud of an L-5CES, from sometime in the 1970s. I've had excellent luck as well with used Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls as well. Something about a Bell curve, perhaps?

The Gibsons I refer to were new, at the time. Bell curve is wonky when there is a number of people making the guitars, of differing abilities, skill and expertise and no quality control. And this is a conscious decision from the company when the decision to pass questionable work by less than qualified craftsman on to a hungry public that will accept that.
I'm glad you had good luck. I have too, but my luck is knowing what I'm getting and eliminating the sub standard.
But running a guitar company should not be a casino. Everybody should be a winner.

[Woody Sound]

Very true. Gibson's biggest competition has long been their used guitars.

And there will always be people who want their guitars new and shiny, and they are willing to pay the extra price.

I had very mediocre rocker student (kind of a jerk) who wanted a LP. I told him we could find him a nice used one in mint condition for less money. He said "No, I want a BRAND NEW guitar."

On the first lesson day he told me he wanted to play like Journey's Neil Schon that day.

[tbeltrans]

Reading about Gibson quality issues here and elsewhere is rather disappointing. Despite there being archtops built by lots and lots of luthiers who are passionate about their craft these days, for me "archtop" has always been Gibson. I know that sounds very "stick in the mud" and is probably considered typical among guitar players in sweeping statements made about us as a whole. But in my case, it is true and likely because I had always seen jazz players with Gibson archtops.

Given the apparent "hit or miss" I am frequently hearing about Gibson's quality, I feel especially grateful for having been able to get my 1995 Gibson Citation in dead mint condition for my final "lifetime" guitar. I am sure it could have just as well been an L-5, though as I understand it, the nut and string spacing on the Citation is just a bit wider which I would prefer.

Having a guitar that truly brings a deep sense of joy and satisfaction like sinking into a fine leather chair every time I pick it up is something I have never experienced with any guitar before. Having a nice guitar and enjoying playing it is fine and I have had that experience a lot, but my Citation is a whole other world and a fine well built Gibson archtop just seems to do that, just as a finely tuned sports car can do for an avid driver.

I am fortunate to have been able to play some of the luthier built guitars and, as nice as they are, it is still Gibson for me. However, I am just one person and it is a good time to be looking at archtops since there are so many choices, especially for those not stuck in the traditional past like me.

Tony

[tbeltrans]

I had very mediocre rocker student (kind of a jerk) who wanted a LP. I told him we could find him a nice used one in mint condition for less money. He said "No, I want a BRAND NEW guitar."

On the first lesson day he told me he wanted to play like Journey's Neil Schon that day.

...but the ads promised overnight success. 30 days to master the guitar is just too long.

Tony

[Bluedawg]

Bummer for you. I've had excellent luck with used, carved Gibson archtops. My last one was a 1995 L-5WES, a fantastic guitar. Only ever encountered one serious dud of an L-5CES, from sometime in the 1970s. I've had excellent luck as well with used Gibson Custom Shop Les Pauls as well. Something about a Bell curve, perhaps?

My favorite years for GIbson archtops that I've played or owned are '85 to about 2016. I have several very nice Gibson archtops from that time period, and I've played a few I wish I could have bought.

They weren't all perfect. I played a few "acoustic" L5s from the Crimson period and they didn't do much for me. Although, I did love the electric tone of the L5s with the BJB floating pickup even if the acoustic sound was not that interesting. Maybe they will "open up" acoustically with playing, but I already had a lovely Le Grand with a great acoustic sound.

But then I've decided I'm not a big fan of the classic archtop acoustic sound anyways even when the guitar is from the golden period from the 30s or 50s.

The 60s Gibson electric archtops I've played were all disappointing, the ones I played had the thinner nut and sounded dead to me.

The 70s archtops I've played were better than the 60s, but not as good as the Henry J period archtops, imho.

I haven't played any 50s or early 60s with the PAFs, but those are almost unobtanium anyway. Maybe someday I'll hunt down a 50s L5 or Super 400 with P-90s or staple pickups.


I have not played any of the newer archtops since the new Management took over. I'll have to withhold judgement on those.

[jazzkritter]

jk rant:
(in todays world i should warn you all the content may be “triggering”)

Three kinds of people in this world: those that have had bad examples of Gibson’s “craftsmanship”, those that have never had a bad experience, and those that did but cant admit to themselves. Hmmm, anyone?)
TBH i have had both good and bad.

i suppose if collecting or pride of ownership or a hankering for the ‘good old days’ colors your opinions, cool, you do that. I was a player, and God willling may again before times up. (Performance is the drug of choice for me.). So in my mind an instrument is a tool first. Audiences IIRC didnt look to see the name on the headstock.
But trusting Gibson to do anything but make the KKR profit objectives is pure folly. Hence a thousand different LPs. No different than a thousand different Strats.

Gibson knows darn well most of us archtop types are at the end of our shelf life. Add to that the extremely tiny market and being objective about it, the dreams of 175s and L5s and whatever populating stores is a wet dream at best.

So. I maintain the 2023 archtop will be similar to the Chuck Berry 350. We will see an obscenely expensive guitar, made in restricted quantities, with fancy pieces of paper, and targeted at display cases not musicians. Production? Nah.

Look, ive kept my L5 and my Tal. Where they go when im off this mortal coil, frankly, makes no difference to me. Not my circus, not my monkey.

I wouldn’t gig with them. Too big. Anyway my daily players have been MIJ Ibanez for 10+years. IF i am ever well enough to play out again, they go. Much easier to play and sound as good or better. And incredibly consistent quality.

Buy Gibson used.

Right JBN?!

jk

[Max405]

Things that make you go "Hmmmm."

Bd, thanks for keeping this alive. For no other reason to me anyway, except, one of the guys who wrote that song was David Cole, one half of C+C music factory. David passed away from meningitis in the mid 90’s. We grew up together. David was brilliant piano playing prodigy who also played sax in the 1st jazz band I was ever in. In my minds eye, I see David as the leader of that great band in heaven. He was as talented as anyone, and God needed him so soon, for some reason. I hope to see him again “One Sweet Day”. That was a song written for David, by Mariah Carey after he passed away.
I’m telling you guys, if David lived he would be a household name right now. I’ll always remember him fondly.
JD