D'Andrea Pro Plec PSA

[whiskey02]

So it looks like DAndrea may at long last be pulling their head out of their butt! A statement posted on stringsbymail.com says that as of 2022 pro plecs will have a matte finish to prevent warping during production.
That only took 8 or 10 years... if it really has fixed the defect.

[mr. beaumont]

Still haven't encountered a warped one! I wonder if everywhere I've bought them was old stock, before the warping issue began.

[Cunamara]

Not being a materials engineer, I have no idea how producing a matte finish would prevent warping versus a polished finish; perhaps the polishing process was heating up the material and causing warping. I mostly use their 358 size pick and I've never had any warping with that, but the slightly larger 651 has tended to have little bit of a cupping to the side that is hot stamped.

[Alter]

I bought a few dozens of them from Thomann last year. I like them and use them, but literally all of them are warped, to the point that you only use one side of the pick. I've never seen that with any other pick...

[spencer096]

Still haven't encountered a warped one! I wonder if everywhere I've bought them was old stock, before the warping issue began.

i have a few dozen, five different styles, every single one was warped. i dont mind the warp, and find it a non-issue when playing, but still they were all warped to varying degrees. the ones that are like the jazzIII (358?) were the most notably warped...but also the ones that i liked the best.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

i have a few dozen, five different styles, every single one was warped. i dont mind the warp, and find it a non-issue when playing, but still they were all warped to varying degrees. the ones that are like the jazzIII (358?) were the most notably warped...but also the ones that i liked the best.

Weird! I also buy them in bulk, and I’ve never gotten a warped one.

[LifeOnJazz]

Last year I bought a couple 651 pro plecs through stringsbymail and they were both warped. Frustrating. I'm pleased to hear the problem will be fixed. I do like them, but I've since discovered D'Addario's Acrylux Nitra picks and I'm not sure I'd switch back.

[spencer096]

Weird! I also buy them in bulk, and I’ve never gotten a warped one.

Wonder if it’s an environmental thing.

great picks regardless.

[whiskey02]

Since opting out of PP's I have discovered the humble 351 Fender heavy celluloid. To my ears they have a wonderful sweetness, unavailable from no other material I've tried. At $3.99 a dozen too!

Fwiw: on acoustic archtop I get more volume and cut from the heavy than XH. A medium brings even more "cut" but they're floppy. Okay if you're strumming but not a good fit for single note lines.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Not being a materials engineer, I have no idea how producing a matte finish would prevent warping versus a polished finish.

The answer is probably surface tension, which is usually considered a property of liquids but also exists in plastics. Surface tension is what it sounds like - tension created by intermolecular attraction at the surface. Surface molecules only have neighbors next to and deep to them, so there’s pull across the surface. This pull can warp thin objects like picks if there’s the slightest bend or irregularity. It literally pulls on the concave side and increases the deformation. Even the slightest microscopic surface breaks will reduce ST on the affected side - so there’s more pull on the opposite surface.

Highly polished plastic surfaces have more ST because the surface molecules are more tightly aligned in one plane. Matte finishes are rougher at a microscopic level, and this reduces ST. So matte finish plastic picks have less ST and the material is better able to resist warping from very minor irregularities.

IME, the matte finished ProPlecs also warp - just not quite so badly. I suspect that it’s the material itself causing this. There must have been some change in the raw plastic that makes it easier to bend than it was before the change. D’Andrea has never said that the material was changed, so I’m guessing. But it’s likely that they buy, rather than make, the plastic itself. So it’s quite possible that their supplier changed something in the material without even telling them.

For whatever reason, ProPlecs still warp.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Weird! I also buy them in bulk, and I’ve never gotten a warped one. [posted on 9/20/2022]

Since that post just got another “like”, I thought I should add an update. That was 3 1/2 years ago. The next bag I bought was full of warpers. So on 9/20/22, I was obviously still on a bag made before whatever happened happened. I’m slowly going through the next bag I bought, taking out a new one every few weeks or months, just to see if it will warp. Every one has, and I’ve only used them for practice.

[nyc chaz]

Since that post just got another “like”, I thought I should add an update. That was 3 1/2 years ago. The next bag I bought was full of warpers. So on 9/20/22, I was obviously still on a bag made before whatever happened happened. I’m slowly going through the next bag I bought, taking out a new one every few weeks or months, just to see if it will warp. Every one has, and I’ve only used them for practice.

There was a thread on The Gear Page 2 months ago complaining about the warping,in fact two people said the picks were already warped in the bag when they received them.Just guessing here,but maybe whatever material they are using warps from heat whether envionmental or the heat from holding it between your fingers.

[Cunamara]

All of the ones I've seen that warped were the 651 (Jazz III) shape; my 351 and 354 (358?) have not warped, but they are all pre-2022, most by a decade or more. All cupped towards the hot-stamped side.

[Rustic]

Dudes! Release those warping ProPlecs and get a Blue Chip - they never warp, don't seem to wear down at all, sound great, and slide off the string very smoothly for fast lines.

They cost too much? Apparently not when compared to buying ProPlecs by the bag full! Plus, I've never lost a BlueChip - for obvious reasons...

;-)

[Avery Roberts]

All cupped towards the hot-stamped side.

That's what is probably warping them. Exotic Plectrums sell picks with no stamping or marking on them at all. Just plain blank. And the ones I received (346 x 0.96mm) were dead flat and are staying that way too. $8.00 Canadian for a 24 pack. Celluloid Black Guitar Pick – Exotic Plectrums

Hope that helps.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

That's what is probably warping them.

But they’ve had the same embossed logo on them as long as I’ve been using them (which is a very long time). They didn’t warp at all before about 2021-2.

If anything, the embossing should stiffen them and help reduce warping. Apart from esthetics (which is secondary), the reason auto body panels have creases and sharp bends stamped into them is that they add stiffness that gives the body structure more rigidity. This reduces warping and makes them more resistant to damage if struck.

[Ascend to Victory]

But they’ve had the same embossed logo on them as long as I’ve been using them (which is a very long time). They didn’t warp at all before about 2021-2.

If anything, the embossing should stiffen them and help reduce warping. Apart from esthetics (which is secondary), the reason auto body panels have creases and sharp bends stamped into them is that they add stiffness that gives the body structure more rigidity. This reduces warping and makes them more resistant to damage if struck.

They were great picks before 2022. It's too bad they changed the formula.

[Avery Roberts]

But they’ve had the same embossed logo on them as long as I’ve been using them (which is a very long time). They didn’t warp at all before about 2021-2.

That's puzzling. Perhaps what has happened is that the stamper is not hot enough and instead of completely melting the logo it is mechanically putting outward force laterally against the surface of the pick and thereby warping it.

That may explain why I also have a pack of Gibson picks with the Gibson hot-stamped logo and they too are everyone warped, yet with the plain vanilla Exotic Plectrums with no logo and no markings - none of them are warped.

[Cunamara]

The thing is, the ProPlecs are a specific material and edge finish, and have a particular tone (and lack of pick noise) that other materials don't get. And they hold up well; I have specific examples that are 20-25 years old that still feel and sound great.

[Avery Roberts]

The thing is, the ProPlecs are a specific material and edge finish, and have a particular tone (and lack of pick noise) that other materials don't get. And they hold up well; I have specific examples that are 20-25 years old that still feel and sound great.

D'Andrea's website says: "Manufactured from an industrial-strength thermoplastic".

According to this website: thef-hole.com, "The D'Andrea Pro Plec is made from an exclusive synthetic material known as Polyflex".

Pickfetish.com says that this material has a "69.5 Shore D Durometer hardness".

Further research finds that PolyFlex is either used or manufactured by an outfit called PolyMaker and they state that it is a "Thermoplastic Poly Urethane" commonly abbreviated as TPU.

Unfortunately, searching the Internet I couldn't find another pick manufacturer that makes picks from TPU. That doesn't mean that they don't exist because they could be using another name to describe TPU, and hence not showing up in the search results. For example D'Andrea calls Delrin "Delrex" and Dunlop calls Delrin "Tortex".

D'Andrea doesn't divulge the manufacturing process except for this one statement (again from their website) "Precision-cut edges". So my speculation is (and I stress that this only a speculation) that they are cut out of sheet stock using a cookie-cutter style cutter, and then the edges mechanically shaped and finally (and unfortunately) hot-stamped with their logo. And it's the final hot stamp with the wrong temperature and/or too much force that is causing them to warp.

So what to do? There are several possibilities:

1. Live with the warp somehow.

2. Buy used or new old stock (NOS) ones on ebay or reverb. (if you can find them - I couldn't)

3. Using a carpenter's clamp, clamp the pick between two small flat pieces of steel such as washers from a hardware (make sure they are flat) and heat the assembly in an ordinary kitchen oven at a low temperature, or you could use an ordinary steam iron with the pick laid on a flat surface. Important - the glass transition temperature for TPU is 176 degrees Fahrenheit so you want to keep the temperature no higher than that. You might want to experiment using some worn-out Pro Plecs you may have.

4. The original poster says that Celluloid sounds even better, so why not give Celluloid a try? Here is a 1.5mm (same thickness as the Pro Plecs) 351 shaped Celluloid (no logo or markings): Celluloid Black Guitar Or Bass Pick - 1.5 mm Ultra Heavy Gauge - 351 S – Exotic Plectrums Disclaimer: I have no financial or familial association with Exotic Plectrums. I am mentioning them because I have had a good experience with their products and service.

Cheers and hope this helps or is at least interesting!

[Cunamara]

I have a probable lifetime supply (at 66, that is a much smaller number than it once was). Plus I am good at not losing picks and have some I’ve been using 20+ years.

[Avery Roberts]

If anything, the embossing should stiffen them and help reduce warping. Apart from esthetics (which is secondary), the reason auto body panels have creases and sharp bends stamped into them is that they add stiffness that gives the body structure more rigidity. This reduces warping and makes them more resistant to damage if struck.

It is an engineering principle that in order for an object's shape to remain stable, that the sum of the forces within the object is zero. That does not mean that the forces themselves are zero, only that they balance-out to zero.

In the case of the auto body panels the deformation is on both sides of the material, therefore the residual forces in the panel are balanced and the panel's new shape remains stable. With the hot-stamped pick the deformation is only on one side of the material and so the residual forces may not be balanced and the material may change its shape. (warps)

If D'Andrea would hot-stamp the pick on both sides, then there's a good chance the shape of the pick would remain stable.

I'm also suspicious that the hot-stamp process is a delicate one, requiring precision control over the temperature, the force, and the duration of the stamp. The temperature should be such that it melts the embossing, but does not melt the rest of the pick. If the temperature is too high then some of the rest of the pick gets melted too. If the temperature is too low then the pick is partially cold-formed creating an outward force on its upper surface.

I think D'Andrea would be better off pad-printing the logo instead of embossing it, and indeed they have developed a process for actually doing that! From their website: "During the 1990's Charlie Lusso revolutionized guitar pick printing by introducing pad printing technology, replacing hot stamping."

So go figure.

My guess is that the marketing department "rules" over the engineering department.

[Avery Roberts]

They were great picks before 2022. It's too bad they changed the formula.

Provided they did. If they did and the new material has significantly greater surface tension than the prior material and as a result is more sensitive to cross-sectional asymmetries, such asymmetries created either in the design or created by the manufacturing process or both, then that is another possible explanation.

The bottom line though is we don't really know and D'Andrea isn't saying.

The bottom, bottom, line is that for many people this is now a defective product, and unusable as a result.

So the question now is: "What else is there, that, although having a different tone and feel, is just as satisfactory?".

[Ascend to Victory]

Provided they did. If they did and the new material has significantly greater surface tension than the prior material and as a result is more sensitive to cross-sectional asymmetries, such asymmetries created either in the design or created by the manufacturing process or both, then that is another possible explanation.

The bottom line though is we don't really know and D'Andrea isn't saying.

The bottom, bottom, line is that for many people this is now a defective product, and unusable as a result.

So the question now is: "What else is there, that, although having a different tone and feel, is just as satisfactory?".

I do like the Blue Chip 35, 40, & 45 plectrums, but they are prohibitively expensive to buy in bulk.

[Avery Roberts]

NiTride Design makes Thermoplastic Polyurethane picks.

NiTrideDesign