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I'm in the market for a lighter amp as a birthday present to my aching back. I'm thinking about one of two amps:
I realize they're very different amps, but I need something versatile. I need something loud and clean for jazz and big band gigs, and something that will take pedals well for pop, funk and R&B. The Fender has that Fender funk, but it's not a lot of power. I might never need more, but it's hard to tell without trying it. I'm sure it can get loud, but can it get loud and clean? The Luna is 200 watts, four pounds lighter and very clean. The demo videos sound great for both amps.
The Evans that I'm using now is terrific, but I'm doing a lot of gigs this year and my back hates it. It'll probably be for sale soon.
Thoughts? I'd especially like to hear from people who've used one of both of these amps.
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03-17-2022 06:26 PM
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I would get the Luna 200R head and get a light high efficiency 4 ohm cab to take advantage of the full power of the amp (210 watts @ 4 ohms) the speakers in the combo are not rated for 200 watts. On the other hand, you might get away with an 8 ohm cab too with little difference in loudness. It is difficult to compare specs between different companies anyway especially when it comes to power and dB ratings.
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I'm pretty sure the combo output is @ 8 Ohms, so you would need another 8 Ohms extension cab (for the full output @ 4 Ohms).
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Go Quilter and you won’t look back!
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Hmmm…
The RE website doesn’t say anything about speaker ohms. Jensen makes both a 4 ohm and 8 ohm version of that speaker, so I guess I’ll need to contact RE and get some clarification. I’d rather not have schlep another cabinet around and I don’t see why the couldn’t just put a 4 ohm speaker in there. We’ll see. I’m also not sure that it wouldn’t be powerful enough even with an 8 ohm speaker, but maybe they can shed some light on that question.
Meanwhile, I’m not seeing any whole lotta love for the Tone Master, but maybe the Fender lovers just haven’t chimed in yet.
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Let me put in a plug for the Black Milkman 100/200 pedalboard amp. You could have Raezer's Edge build you a 10" or 12" cab with a neodymium magnet driver.
Nice cleans. Great pedal platform. Weighs nothing. Don't rule it out.
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Thanks. I’ll check it out.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky;[URL="tel:1186830"
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I'm not sure how different your two main candidates are. I believe they have the same IcePower power source / power amp module inside, so the differences come from the preamp side of things. Haven't tried either, as I'm using separate heads with my back-friendly TOOB and Metro cabs. To be honest, I'm not too impressed about the Luna 200R amp I have. After two defective samples via Germany I finally got a decent one straight from the works. Geoff Felsher was very supportive all along. However, the amp isn't very loud for the wattage (compared to my G&K MB200, BAM200 and Warwick Gnome bass amps) and gets noisy on higher reverb settings. Strangely, it came with no instructions and there isn't a single FCC compliance or health warning sticker on it. Probably all's ok and IcePower has the necessary certifications, but still a slightly homespun flavor.
A separate head and a lightweight cab are usually lighter than a corresponding combo. I'd look at Quilter, DV Mark, Milkman and BluGuitar before pulling the trigger. And if on-board reverb isn't a must, the TC Electronic BAM200 is a warm-sounding jazz guitar amp as such and takes pedals very well.
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Nice suggestion. Here's a video I found... sweet jazz tone (with 1958 L5) recording using the direct out from the Milk Man the amp 100. The guitarist is great. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Tonemaster Twin. You’ll never run out of power and they weigh nothin. Only drawback is there’re a bit bulky.
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32 lbs Originally Posted by D.G.
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I have two Quilters and a Bud 6 for jazz and pop and have no need for anything else in that genre.
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Yep, that’s more than my Evans, and I’m trying too go lighter. Originally Posted by pingu;[URL="tel:1186849"
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The problem is that I have no way to actually try most of the amps that have been mentioned, including the two that I mentioned. And in most cases the videos only show one aspect of what an amp will do. I’ve still yet to hear a Fender TMDR in a clean jazz quartet format, for example. The Milkman video sounded terrific, but I have no idea how it would sound on a clean jazz gig.
The NEO speakers are probably somewhat limiting in terms of sound, but an ALNICO speaker gets you back in heavy amp territory.
We’ll see. I guess it’s just a crap shoot.
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I had the combo version for a month. It wasn't tonally versatile enough for me but I was really impressed otherwise. The DI out was fantastic. Super lightweight. Impressive headroom, considering. Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
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Neo speakers excel in just two areas: weight and blind tests... AlNiCo speakers don't have to be heavy: Jensen's recently introduced 12" Blackbird 40 AlNiCo (40W) has a proprietary "reinforced" magnet structure. It weighs 4.4 lbs, the same as the 100 W Tornado. People have compared it to Celestion Gold, which for many is the Holy Grail (and priced accordingly.) I actually prefer the Tornado and have installed over 250 of them to complete customer satisfaction.
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I don’t think you can go wrong with some size of Tonemaster. They sound pretty good and are versatile enough for what it sounds like you need to play.
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I have to respond to that. Neo speakers are no different from those with other magnetic driver materials - each has its own sonic character and you can find similar performance in multiple speakers. Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
I put a Jensen Tornado Jet 10 in my RE Bass 10 cab and love it driven by any of my Class D or tube amps. I have an Eminence 8 in my RevSound cab that’s equally great with my archtops, Tele, LP etc - and the two are my stereo pair when using my Roland guitar synth.
I suspect that a Blu 6 or 10 would be great for your described use, as would any of the 250 DVMark heads into a neo driver like my Jet (thanks again, marcwhy!) or Eminence in a cab like my RE 10 or a RevSound. A Quilter combo is another great choice for you.
I like the TM line a lot, and the Twin would certainly do everything you want. But I don’t think the Deluxe would make enough clean sound for big gigs. And even the Deluxe is bigger and heavier than my RE with a DVM 250 head (which is at least twice the size of a BAM 200, Elf, or other fine cl D head).
Enjoy!
PS: I had one of the first smaller cab Evans 200s and loved it - it was the best smaller amp I found in the ‘90s. But any of my current pieces blows it away for tone as well as power.
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That's good information. I didn't know there was such a thing as a light weight ALNICO speaker. Next thing you know they'll be putting a man on the moon!! Originally Posted by Gitterbug
Thanks, I'll look into that.
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Thanks; that's more good information. I've overlooked the Henriksen amps, so maybe I'll give them a harder look. I had considered Quilter. They seem to get mixed reviews from jazz players but I haven't totally ruled them out. Mark Why emailed me with some good info on those. I appreciate all the responses. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I considered that Jensen alnico for my RE cab before getting the Jet. But you have to match the total Q of the speaker with the type of cabinet into which you'll put it to get the best sound quality from it, starting with tight and well defined bass. The RE Bass 10 cab is vented, so lower Qts is better - and the total Q on the Jet is 0.58 while that of the Blackbird is 0.8. You also have to match the free air resonance of the speaker cone with the cab and intended use to get predictable results. Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
From Jensen:
"Qts of 0.4 or below indicates a transducer well suited to a vented enclosure. Qts between 0.4 and 0.7 indicates suitability for a sealed enclosure. Qts of 0.7 or above indicates suitability for free-air or infinite baffle applications."
Just plopping a speaker into a cab is a crap shoot without knowing the specs, which is probably why we see so many varied opinions about a given speaker in a given cabinet. You can bet that any manufacturer worth his or her weight in salt designs and sells a loaded cabinet as an integrated unit. If a new speaker cab seems too cheap to be true, it is - the maker just stuffed the least expensive driver into the box to meet a price. The best you can hope for if you do the same is good luck - and trusting your luck is a lousy plan.
It's not a bargain if it doesn't sound right, no matter how low its purchase price. Had I not been offered my Jet by its orignal owner at a very fair price, I would have bought one new.
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And it would be nice to have two Identical cabs to a/b speakers. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I'm really anxious to try a Blu 6 - so I finally called Henriksen about 2 weeks ago and will be getting one when the next run is ready. They've been waiting for preamp parts, but I think they have them now. They expect to ship the first backordered Blus by the beginning of April. Originally Posted by Jonathan0996
I've played through a number of earlier Quilter combos and liked but did not love them for jazz. I do love the sound of my Microblock 45, but it's far from powerful enough to cover big gigs. The new 200 watters apparently have what it takes, and I'd love to try one - but for some reason I like the general Henriksen gestalt (including appearance, for whatever that's worth) a lot more. The last vocalist / guitar player in our blues band had and loved a few Quilters, but he's changed amps more often than Henry the 8th changed wives. He bought an Aviator Cub 3 months ago and returned it almost immediately because he didn't think it had enough oomph. I never even got to see it, and he quit the band shortly after that over a dispute with another member. We're still playing together in another band in which we're both just sidemen ('m the leader of the blues group), so I'll get to see whatever he has at the next gig with them (I predict a new 200W HD 12" Quilter combo).
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I predict that you will love the Blu 6. Your back will love it as will your ears. It can handle any size gig. It does best on the floor. Sitting on a chair (or an extension cabinet) it loses a lot of bass response. And with a dirt pedal in front of it, it can do a respectable job on a rock/blues gig. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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I have played through the Deluxe Reverb Tone Master several times, as a friend of mine has bought one. That is an excellent sounding amp- sounds like a Deluxe Reverb. The same guy also has an old silverface Twin; I like that one slightly better because of the two speakers giving it a slightly rounder top end, but I would say only that they sound slightly different not better or worse.
I don't know what kind of gig the TMDR couldn't get loud enough for: an auditorium gig, maybe? But anything that big is going to have a PA for sound reinforcement, anyway. Even set on 0.2W, Or whatever the lowest setting on the attenuator is, it gets plenty loud for rehearsal. There are previous extensive threads on the forum about that amp.
All that being said, my main amp for close to 10 years has been a tweed Deluxe 5E3 clone which is itself pretty lightweight. Mine has a Cannabis Rex in it. Great sounding amp. And lately I have been really digging my old RE Stealth 12 cabinet with my AI Clarus 2r with the addition of my Tech21 Para Driver DI to fatten things up a little bit. But that would be going in the opposite direction of what you're looking for in terms of weight and portability.
Another option, if your gigs have a PA, might be using something like the Para Driver DI. I recently tried this and effortlessly got about the best jazz tone I have ever gotten on stage. It's warm, it's fat, it's really light and portable. If I was a traveling gigging musician this is what I would do instead of toting amp.
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